Let's put the claim that the aircraft couldn't penetrate the towers to bed.

a reply to: sg1642

A lot of it is based on the claims made by the flight instructor that he couldn't land or takeoff and they wouldn't rent him a plane. He was working towards a 737 type rating and had a commercial certificate.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: sg1642

A lot of it is based on the claims made by the flight instructor that he couldn't land or takeoff and they wouldn't rent him a plane. He was working towards a 737 type rating and had a commercial certificate.

so a lot of it is just blown out of proportion?

a reply to: sg1642

Partial information released by the media. I wouldn't say a lot of it, but at least some of it was. He was a fully rated commercial pilot, with an FAA certificate, and was working in the simulator to become certified on the 737. It's smaller and lighter than a 757, but it would go a long way towards helping him be able to control a 757.

a reply to: Zaphod58

A lot of it is based on the claims made by the flight instructor that he couldn't land or takeoff and they wouldn't rent him a plane. He was working towards a 737 type rating and had a commercial certificate.

Apparently, he obtained a commercial pilots license, which requires a skill level higher than required to obtain a private pilot license. I know, because I have been a pilot since 1969 and have led chapters whose members include military and commercial pilots, instructor pilots, private pilots, sport pilots and student pilots.

He also had over 200 flying hours as well and lots of instrument time which requires a more precise skill level than required for a commercial pilot license.

originally posted by: sg1642

As has already been pointed out, a B25 flying much slower and made of a less sturdy design punched straight through the empire state..

No it didn't, a solid engineered engine did, in any case the Empire state building is made of bricks and steel with a limestone facade, below is the damage done to what looks like the inner wall, by either landing gear or that engine...bricks man,



also, it looks like the inner wall bricks look like heat bricks, and hollow, just another curtain wall, big advantage there though is heat protection if undamaged, but absolutely no strength against a lateral force, yet nothing much material than an engine or landing gear got beyond the inner wall.
In edit, the picture is the inner wall, and it was penetrated by part of the landing gear at an elevator shaft, anyway you should get the drift.

a reply to: Zaphod58

A lot of it is based on the claims made by the flight instructor that he couldn't land or takeoff and they wouldn't rent him a plane. He was working towards a 737 type rating and had a commercial certificate.

This was at Essex County Airport - instructor did not want to rent him airplane do to poor command of English

The airport is just down the road from me......

a reply to: firerescue

Which doesn't mean much. I used to hear a Japan Airlines pilot that when he read clearance, would read it back from Hickam instead of Honolulu, because he couldn't say Honolulu as well as he could Hickam. He could understand every instruction just fine, he just couldn't speak English that well all the time.

a reply to: smurfy

also, it looks like the inner wall bricks look like heat bricks, and hollow, just another curtain wall, big advantage there though is heat protection

Terra Cotta bricks - part of fire protection . Steel columns are encased in masonry to protect from fire

Contrast this with fire protection at WTC - spray on composed of mineral fibers (asbestos originally) mixed with cement
binder

At first only applied 1/2 inch thickness, later increased to 1 1/2 inches

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

There used to be many arguments that the planes should have hit the buildings and stopped, because aluminum is lighter than steel.

I have no horse in this race, but I do think the planes could have gotten through... the towers were not solid steel at all .. they were steel columns with lots of service area that the planes could get through that were made of reinforced glass .. so yeah they could get through that at a high velocity .. and if they were just dealing with steel columns rather than a wall of steel then I think it's possible.. but I'm not engineer.

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: smurfy

also, it looks like the inner wall bricks look like heat bricks, and hollow, just another curtain wall, big advantage there though is heat protection

Terra Cotta bricks - part of fire protection . Steel columns are encased in masonry to protect from fire

Contrast this with fire protection at WTC - spray on composed of mineral fibers (asbestos originally) mixed with cement
binder

At first only applied 1/2 inch thickness, later increased to 1 1/2 inches

Right, we just call them heat bricks and dispense the correct name with the notion that the name being something aesthetic,

I'll tell you what though, they will keep the heat in too. Farmers here use them for keeping little piggy's Taws warm in the stys

a reply to: Insolubrious

The kamikaze pilots were flying Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka which were specially designed flying bombs made to penetrate a ships hull and were equiped with explosive warheads! The planes that hit the towers were not (allegedly)

Look what the slower, smaller and lighter B-25 had done to the Empire State Building.

Photo: B-25 Slams Into Empire State Building

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

WRONG !!!!!

Pentagon walls are made of brick. Outer most ring (E RING) has a facade of limestone over the brick

Also 2 lowest levels have no walls between E and D rings

Floors are made of concrete

Interesting thing - when doing renovations found that several layers (courses) of brick were laid without any cement
between them

Really? Lmao! This is what happens when you employ cowboys to build something for you.

a reply to: firerescue

This was at Essex County Airport - instructor did not want to rent him airplane do to poor command of English

You are correct because the FAA would never have issued a commercial pilot license to someone who could not land an airplane.

a reply to: firerescue

I also see a number of what appear to be smaller holes around the impact area, could those be bullet holes?

originally posted by: Insolubrious
a reply to: firerescue

I also see a number of what appear to be smaller holes around the impact area, could those be bullet holes?

Going by the spread and size I'd go with a 20mm on the aircraft firing at the ship as it went in.

a reply to: sg1642

The planes did penetrate the towers(no questioning that)----they just didn't penetrate the towers with a haji piloting the plane but from a military remote flying around in a 747 or AWAC.


That simple truth probably makes many want to stomp my head in---lol
Truth always sucks at first

originally posted by: superluminal11
a reply to: sg1642

The planes did penetrate the towers(no questioning that)----they just didn't penetrate the towers with a haji piloting the plane but from a military remote flying around in a 747 or AWAC.


That simple truth probably makes many want to stomp my head in---lol
Truth always sucks at first

Regardless of who or what flew I to the towers my whole point is they certainly weren't holograms.

a reply to: superluminal11

The planes did penetrate the towers(no questioning that)----they just didn't penetrate the towers with a haji piloting the plane but from a military remote flying around in a 747 or AWAC.

That is false because radar had tracked each of the 9/11 aircraft from takeoff to their crash sites. No military aircraft was involved.