The Downsides of Being Beautiful

a reply to: rukia
I am sorry. But one can not take you seriously when you are so obviously wrong.

Who told you that you were 1% or whatever, you dont seem to be so smart to me. Kind of ditsy for sure, you may even be a blonde. You know just because you and who knows who else your mom or sister or girlfriends agree on something does not mean it is true. For all you know they may just be going along with it to not make you feel bad.

But anyways. The only way to solve this dilemma with you all is to have a walk off. So if you think your so symmetrical whatever that # means, I think there were a few others on here who thought the same. Well, have a walk off and we here on this site will decide on just who is hotter or more symmetrical then the other. I would say that you all should have a written test just to see who will pass on the smarts, but from what I have read of what you people are talking about on this thread you already failed that test.

Not saying you all are complete dunderheads, but does not look like its far off. I think that may just be the problem with this whole world, to many mediocre people have been raised and thought that they are something that they just are not, and off course others start believing them as such things are like to proliferate. And then it turns into some sort of circus and circle jerk of redundancy on unfounded believes.

Its cool and all. But what are we supposed to just believe and take your word on it? I think not. The only logical way we can solve this dilemma is to have a walk off. Then we can see who is more symmetrical and who not. As it stands you and this thread would not even be a good attempt at being trolls. After we figure out who is more symmetrical we, and by we I mean you, should work on your trolling skills. As far as joke threads go this one is mediocre.

originally posted by: rukia
a reply to: Bluesma

And be sure to read all of that. You must not have read my other posts (or the OP--just like the majority of people commenting here like there's actually something here to debate when there isn't lol) But, I'm sure if you did you would understand. Same goes for everyone else. Don't just comment back on reflex. Think about it for a second please. Come on. Let's have an intelligent conversation. This isn't a debate. There is nothing to debate. The thread is factual. You cannot disprove that. So stop trying--it's insane lol
Your opinions aren't an argument valid enough to debate the legitimacy of the topic of this thread.

WTF?

I don't know if you got drunk when you wrote this post, or just got a little confused as you read through the posts, about who posted what- I spent days defending YOUR position and YOUR op, and the fact that this phenomenon is real.
If you have an exceptionally high IQ you need to learn to master and use it better.
You just went on a long insulting rant to your one and only defender (that was) left in this thread.

I am right. The end.

So, since I am right, how does that make you feel? Was this information new to you? Did you not realize that this was a problem? That's what I want to talk about. Productive things. Things that move toward a solution.

Up to now, I have been defending the TOPIC, stating it was a social issue and suggesting positive ways we all could be aware and help change it.

This "I am right, end of story" crap, as well as the rest (directed towards the wrong person) suggests you have some serious problems with social skills. It is reasonable to suggest that in your case, the problems you think are due to your looks just might be due to your lack of social skills instead.

I've noticed that good looking people can actually get lazy about developing good social skills, because of what I pointed out- you get used to people forgiving you for your inconsiderate screw ups, or forgetting them entirely as they are staring wide eyed at your halo. You might not even realize that you are actually, an asshat!

That's the problem with this influenced feedback in the long run, and why I consider it a problem and challenge.

It makes one completely confused when in a medium nobody sees them, so are not under the influence,
or when you get older and loose that impact... suddenly you're left wondering why oh why is everyone reacting negatively to me????

a reply to: Bluesma

Again, to my question from the previous page....

So, I would ask you; now that you've read the most recent posts (by the OP) on this thread...do you still feel the same way?

originally posted by: rukia

And to clarify, those other two comments weren't so much to you but more general statements to participants in the thread as a whole. I think I made that distinction somewhere in those essays haha but I'm not positive so I wanted to say it again just in case. You're not being negative--but I do think that some of what you said wasn't entirely factual. People don't really overestimate themselves if they're always honest with themselves.

Hm... okay... no you made no distinction, and you were totally rude and off there. But maybe it was just a bad brain day- that happens even to the most intelligent people.

Now, here's the problem with the assertion that people considered highly attractive in their environment do not develop an unrealistic self concept as a result of this halo effect-

If that happened to an individual, they would not, by definition, know they were over estimating themselves or their abilities or skills.

So to take the position that you are one of these (1% or whatever), actually make your position weakened.

Look, IQ is potential. Alone, it isn't worth much. I have a brother who is a genius in IQ, and he sleeps behind a dumpster and is in and out of prison. An uncle that is about the same, also with an extraordinarily high IQ.

I sometimes wonder if the fact that they were both very attractive didn't have something to do with them not learning to USE that potential efficiently.

I'll take the risk, on the question of overestimation and unrealistic self image, in sharing my own experience again.

All through high school, I was in the drama club and was considered THE star actress at that school. I got all the biggest roles, and had a strange fan club or following of students who would treat me with awe. The attention off stage made me extremely uncomfortable, but on stage, I saw no one, only darkness, and I was someone else anyway.

It got to a point that without thinking about it too much, I just developed the idea that I was a naturally good actress. Everyone treated me like I was, so...okay.
One day I found out what was said during a meeting in which the yearly awards were to be given out, in which my nomination for best actress was countered with the argument that I only got roles because of my looks.
When I heard this, I swear to you, I was totally surprised. I had no idea there was anything remarkable about my looks, it had never entered my mind!

In that moment I realized why I always got the leading heroines- the good girls, the innocent, the sweet... one time I was so set on a character role I did not even try out for the lead, and the drama teacher pulled me aside to beg me to take the lead role.

(The irony of this in relation to this topic, as Shakespeare fans will recognize, is that the role was Hermia in A Midsummers Night Dream)

I suddenly realized why that was, and how that drama teacher was always proclaiming I looked like Grace Kelly.

I can never really remember what Grace Kelly looked like- thought when I see pictures, I think yes, she is very pretty.
She has that sort of face that has no flaws to make it different or special. Anyone remember anything at all about her personality? Things she did? What about Audrey Hepburn? Do many even know she was a great humanitarian and did great things? Were either of them great actresses? I dunno. Shrug. But they were pretty- that's all anyone really cared about.

I realized that I had no talent, and had been led astray by peoples attention and the impact of appearences.
My family had arranged a talent scout to come see me in a production and I figured this out just before the opening, and quit the show. If I hadn't figured it out on my own, it would have hit me eventually anyway. Someone in the business would have burst my bubble and I would have been sent into a tailspin of confusion.

I will not go as far as to say that such a false perception of ones skills and abilities is systematically a product of this effect, but I will say it is definately one of the challenges that CAN and DOES sometimes happen to people.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Bluesma

Again, to my question from the previous page....

So, I would ask you; now that you've read the most recent posts (by the OP) on this thread...do you still feel the same way?

I haven't gotten to that post yet, sorry... but I will answer this.

I still feel that there is some real truth and value to the topic. But I do not think rukia is the topic.

Rukia has her own experience and feelings about it, and I will mostly agree on the impression she has given here of herself. But that doesn't deter my view that the halo effect and the subtle ways appearence impacts judgement all the time exists and is a problem and challenge in some ways.

a reply to: Bluesma

The answer is called "dead to rights" from post ONE!

I salute you for believing this thread was about a topic when, in fact, it was really about a person (the OP). A very vain and troubled person, but a person none the less. I salute your efforts to discuss what you believed was the subject, but I implore you to go back and re-read. This thread has never been about a subject, a single subject, this is why the OP is all over the place with her responses. No, this thread is about "me, me....ME!!", and this is all it is about.

And, if you take a few moments to go look at some other threads authored by the same, you will see a very similar trend over and over again.

I see no point in continuing here (on this thread), so I guess I will take my leave. I'm just going to sit back now and enjoy the show.

Best.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I always have a tendancy to put aside the OP's feelings, views, and reasons for bringing a topic to the table.

We all have our own motivations for taking part in threads on any topic!

But, I tend to think that the people responding can stear the focus into something constructive - away from talking about persons and into talking about ideas.
But certainly, we have to be a majority that wants to do that. If most of the responders choose to give what she wanted (personal attention - remember positive and negative attention are the same when it comes to that) then yeah, it isn't going to go in a different direction.

To be completely honest, rukia?
I think you took on a very difficult subject, that was perhaps too big a challenge for your current skills in communication.
It is worth looking at, but it takes a very skilled mediator to bring it to the table and channel the strong mixed emotions and thoughts. You might want to work with some other controversial topics which have less personal experience and investment in them, to practice.

Just some friendly advice, feel free to leave it if you wish.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I have to say, going from a position of "this is nonsense" to, actually, "look what is happening here", I am seeing that despite her youthfullness, the article she has posted is on to something. The thread discussion, has clearly demonstrated that you can look beautiful but you will only be rewarded for it if you are stupid, hence creating that bubble or Halo Effect where they feel as though they are more than a one trick pony, but you will be punished if you are beautiful and intelligent enough to be aware of it, to not use it.

Seems many here do not know the difference between (false) humility and integrity. I may not like the OP, but I am developing a growing respect for her.

For me, honesty, even accompanied by "arrogance" always trumps hypocrisy.

I really do hope that the OP is as intelligent as she claims to be, 'cos this is funny as # from where I am sitting, and it'd be nice to have someone to share the popcorn with.

Just priceless.

a reply to: rukia

It’s that character thing, what makes Rukia, as in the “character” from Bleach what my son describes as bad-ass. If you have it too easy, there seems to be a lacking of self awareness. My brother is 6 foot 1 and by his own assessment, a very attractive man. He is the dirty dishwater side of blond and his eyes are the colour of mud according to one of his, numerous, ex girlfriends. He is a tall, white male though. Economically he hasn’t led a particularly charmed life, by his own assessment he should’ve spent less time getting wasted and being a tart, and getting by at the bare minimum with his education, and more time knuckling down to maximise his potential. He didn’t thankfully, he is far more interesting as a consequence to me than he would ever have been if he had sacrificed his integrity in that way, towed the party line. Being a tart, getting wasted and generally experiencing life is what young people should do. You’ll never know what is “right” if you haven’t experienced “wrong”. The difference, however, is that it is a double-standard. My brother sowed his wild oats, whatever profession he had chosen to go into such behaviour of a good-looking, tall white male, would have be deemed the norm, but a woman has to have command of her sexuality or it will, in some form or another, be used against her. And this goes running throughout society.

Now, we’re seeing a lot of very intelligent women coming to the fore now in what were considered traditional domains of masculinity, the sciences being the most obvious, but also female academics across the disciplines are gaining prominence. There have always been very intelligent women, but they take some rooting out in most cases. They’re not well documented, unless they used their sexuality to improve their position, in the case of courtesans, queens etc, the marrying/mistressing up brigade. Loads of books about Nell Gwynn, for example, infamous guttersnipe, “celebrated beauty”, the full rags to riches fairy story of sleeping your way into a better economic position, and as mistress to King Charles the second she has achieved immortality. You will not find as many books by her BFF, Aphra Behn, writer and spy.

As long as you can look yourself in the eye when you look in the mirror that is all that is important, if you can do that, and choose respect over popularity, you won’t get to your forties and find that you are grasping in all directions for affirmation and whining out the woe is me.

Remember, the outside will become like the inside.

Okay, now....

This thread is not about members being smart or blond or cute.....it is not about discussing other members by name or otherwise.....You are responsible for your own posts.

Let's get back to the topic and QUIT the bickering and off topic derailing.



and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

*SNIP*

Now, having said that, here is my own personal experience. This is in no way intended to be arrogant or conceited. Before the age of about 13, I was an awkward child whose weight fluctuated from being really thin one year, to a chunker the next. It was about the age of 13 that the "baby fat" started to disappear and what emerged was a quite good looking person. I have been called everything from gorgeousto beautiful and even luscious. However, having grown up as I had, regarding my physical appearance, I was not so sure that my looks were really that great or out of the ordinary. As I got older, I did notice that I could "get away" with things that other people didn't. I will admit I even used my looks to my advantage here and there over the years. However, I also noticed that once my physical beauty emerged, I was treated differently by people I thought were my friends. Suddenly girls who had been my friends for many years "hated" me, although I was still the same person.

Later in life, my mid 20's to be exact, my marriage was breaking up (we had been together for about a decade) and I was once again thrown into the single life. I can honestly say that I had a very hard time meeting guys. My friends and I would go out to a club, and no one would ask us to dance, or even talk to us. My two friends at the time were also very pretty girls. Oh guys would stare, would not approach us. Finally, one night a friend introduced us to her husband. The subject turned to why the three of us were not mingling and dancing. We told him how no guys ever approached us. His response, and I have never forgotten it, was that we were intimidating because we were pretty. That threw me for a loop because I had always had many male friends and been considered by them to be a very cool and down to earth person, even "one of the guys".

So, I can see where the original post may have been intended to head. What I don't understand is how someone would want to rely on their looks to make their life complete. Today, I have a chronic illness and have gained a ton of weight because of it. If I had relied solely on my looks, I'd be lonely and alone. However, seeing as how I have spent more time developing my intelligence and my God given personality, I have a wonderful husband and awesome friends, who love me for the inner beauty that I had all along. So while their are some "obstacles" that good looking people face, the major one, in my opinion, is not letting it take over you life and your personal interactions with others.

originally posted by: Menrva
*SNIP*

Now, having said that, here is my own personal experience. This is in no way intended to be arrogant or conceited. Before the age of about 13, I was an awkward child whose weight fluctuated from being really thin one year, to a chunker the next. It was about the age of 13 that the "baby fat" started to disappear and what emerged was a quite good looking person. I have been called everything from gorgeousto beautiful and even luscious.

This is why I used the example of my brother, because like you, he, kind of, earnt his "beauty". I also used him because he is brilliant. He was born that way, it is in the true sense of the word, a gift. He is also, along with this gift, quite "special" in other ways. I am sure that these days they would have all sorts of labels to apply to him but five decades ago, he was merely a problem. I think feral sums it up perfectly, and from the moment that he could carry himself off on his own two feet, he was digging, exploring, seeking and discovering, feeding that mind. By the time he got to school no teacher could teach him, he knew too much, far too quickly and no one had a clue what to do with him. He worked a lot of it out for himself eventually, but still, he is only notionally house trained, he needed a firm hand and that was largely absent.

Although by the time he got to 18 he was 6 foot plus, up to 16 he was diddy. He was hospitalised twice, had his arm broken, was beaten into unconsciousness with a cricket bat, under the watchful eye of a teacher, had his head repeatedly smashed into a locker until he passed out...and numerous other incidences that I haven't heard about. They were not everyday, it was arbitary, some days better than others, some days not so. He never stood down, kept getting up, until they either walked away, or he couldn't get up. Suddenly growing a foot and a half in the course of a year, and the sudden flowering of the muscles he'd developed as a gymnast and rugby player, as well as a jaw that Brad Pitt would die for was for him, the funniest thing in the whole wide world. You could practically hear all the gulps. And, suddenly all the girls wanted to be my friend. Bless his cotton socks.

a reply to: Anaana

That's beautiful!! Thank you so much for sharing.

What ended up happening to your brother?

What's he doing now?

a reply to: rukia

He was working in biodiversity and sustainability, but was made redundant a few years ago, and has been using his redundancy to undertake voluntary work and further study is the short version. All the funding seems to be directed at finding ways of avoiding addressing the issue of biodiversity and sustainability, rather than getting on with implementing well established and proven models. My brother's skill base is not in demand on a wage basis, sadly, currently, we can hope, but in the meantime, he is working for free and keeping on his toes skill wise through short courses and voluntary work. It's not a good economy for anyone right now, and he has friends worse off, so he isn't grumbling, just plodding on.

Thanks very much for asking, that was kind of you and appreciated.

a reply to: jellyrev

Also c'mon again if this women is so good looking and has a decent personality guess what? she can just marry up in life anyways. She has much more choices in life as it is.

That was kind of my point earlier...why should anyone have to "marry up"? That is part of the reason why it is damaging to give in to social stigma/stereotypes. Looks should have nothing to do with anyone's success or status in life...either real or perceived. Why is it that we automatically assume that just because someone looks a certain way that they automatically have "much more choices in life"? That is an outdated perception, and it is completely untrue. And it makes the assumption that an attractive woman's successes are not of her own design nor from her hard work and ambition, but that they were handed to her simply because she looks pretty. It also makes the assumption that if something bad happens to such a woman, she deserves less assistance or care because due to her good looks, she will bounce right back and have no worries in life. By that very statement, you are proving that society dictates the way that you think.

a reply to: tigertatzen

I don't honestly think that there is an assumption that women get where they are professionally from their looks, unless it is a looks based profession, here in the UK, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter. And a man is possibly more likely than a woman these days to move into another socio-economic class. The aristocracy do their own thing in amongst themselves, but since they have limited powers no one is all that interested in the purity of blood other than a few stalwarts. For the most part, unless you are a celebrity, people are allowed to marry whomever they like, there may be gossip and a few raised eyebrows, but no lasting stigma. I think that in the UK, in my experience, you can no longer get to the top levels of most professions without encountering a woman close to the top, or at the top itself, even in the traditional male domains. Some of those women had to really scrap their way to the top against all opposition and suffer no fools. They've proven themselves, no one makes assumptions about them, and I find that that is the general assumption here, women have earnt respect, and looking upwards women and men, recognise that they are the people who's respect they are going to have to earn if they want to follow that path.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Like I said infants are drawn to many things. There was a thread a bit ago about one being drawn to bacon. Now can we assume from that one video that all infants have such an infatuation with bacon? Probably not. What number in what study done have you come up with what and how many infants are attracted or infatuated with what or who's faces?

Cant answer that. Because controlled studies and tests are exactly that, even if they take the most broad scientific approach they are still...Controlled ie they have parameters and most times its a multiple choice question 2 multiple choice questions to be precise, now if it were 3, or 4 or 100 it would show a different result. The more factors you introduce the larger your results would likely be.

Now lets say we thrown a monkey ranch in that test, what if we add the element of bacon to the test as well as different people with different facial features. What if it then shows that out of 1,000 infants 80% were more attracted to bacon then in peoples faces. Or heaven forbid what if one of the test subjects the face people happen to make a funny face while the infant decides? That would sully the whole experiment, it would have to be redone from scratch.

It might be a better idea for you to simply read the data; it's out there, just a Google away. I understand what you're saying, but you're confusing scientific extrapolation and theory with fact. The studies aren't done to prove that it's a fact that all infants are drawn to certain facial measurements. It is simply a tool by which to discern whether there is a direct correlation between certain facial measurements and the propensity of infant brains to be drawn to them more than to other structurally "imperfect" faces. Which helps us understand human behavior as related to "perfection" in our environment. This particular measurement is found everywhere in nature, and there are numerous studies published on that as well.

What you're saying makes sense in the abstract, but your logic is flawed regarding the terms of the actual studies. They're not going to get different results by adding bacon (your example), because that would be a distraction...artifact...and it would render the study useless; the reaction of the infants is solely for the purpose of determining whether or not a face with measurements that equal the Golden Ratio is more visually appealing to an infant than one that does not have the measurements. And the reason for that is to determine whether it is a valid theory that we are, from infancy; where we have no preconceived ideas about what is appealing and what is not, more drawn to symmetrical perfection in human faces than not, and how that influences human behavior.

Although, on a personal note, I am quite attracted to bacon...and I don't have to measure the slice first to know that, either

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It defies imagination to me that someone who is so infinitely "beautiful", intelligent beyond comprehension and among the elite 1% of all of the human species on planet Earth (in their own mind) would feel the need to stoop low enough to come to a website such as ATS and impart such wisdom and unadulterated "perfectness" to us mere mortals.

She's disproving her own assertion, because the Terra Nova test is not a measurement of intelligence. At best, it's a test of the skill of memorization. So no, not nearly as "elite" as she seems to think she is. We can all breathe a little easier now knowing that we're actually in the presence of just another ordinary, average intellect (being generous just in case) who is ever so slightly confused about what actually measures human intelligence.