The Downsides of Being Beautiful

a reply to: tigertatzen

I think it is you who are confused, actually. No one said anything about faces being "perfectly symmetrical". We are talking about specific measurements of facial bones and how that relates to the popular concept of physical beauty, and also how much of that is conditioning versus innate human predisposition.

I try not to subscribe to the law of confusion though as one of the living its unavoidable. And there is not so much conditioning vs innate human predisposition as those two things are two loops on a string, I suppose you can call that string evolution. To try and judge the gap between them may not be pointless but its like comparing red apples to green apples. At the end and in the over all scheme of things they are the same thing.

The studies were for a specific reason, which you seem to be unable to grasp. "Nature vs. Nurture" studies are done all the time to help explain the correlation to human psychology, sociology and development.

OK I admit I did not even read the studies. I skimmed it, OK not even that. But even in my not even skimming effort, I think I know and have a grasp of what it is about. And yes nature vs nurture studies are done all the time. I suppose we can agree on that.

We're not talking about infants looking at something "with wonder". We're talking about which facial structures they are most drawn to and how that relates to human bonding and social interaction.

Like I said infants are drawn to many things. There was a thread a bit ago about one being drawn to bacon. Now can we assume from that one video that all infants have such an infatuation with bacon? Probably not. What number in what study done have you come up with what and how many infants are attracted or infatuated with what or who's faces?

Cant answer that. Because controlled studies and tests are exactly that, even if they take the most broad scientific approach they are still...Controlled ie they have parameters and most times its a multiple choice question 2 multiple choice questions to be precise, now if it were 3, or 4 or 100 it would show a different result. The more factors you introduce the larger your results would likely be.

Now lets say we thrown a monkey ranch in that test, what if we add the element of bacon to the test as well as different people with different facial features. What if it then shows that out of 1,000 infants 80% were more attracted to bacon then in peoples faces. Or heaven forbid what if one of the test subjects the face people happen to make a funny face while the infant decides? That would sully the whole experiment, it would have to be redone from scratch.

What can we deduce from that?

The beauty industry also uses that data. It is science. It has nothing to do with "perfect" facial features. It's about a specific measurement that is found in nature all over the planet, and that measurement is called The Golden Ratio.

Sounds all to similar to the golden rule to me. Just because you put "golden" In front of a sentence, What am I now supposed to take it seriously. I think not.

That sounds suspiciously like a personal attack on my intelligence. Watch yourself with that.

Or what? Are you going to verbally attack me with your eloquent soliloquies using words to make me fell bad?

OK I will try not to insult you. But I do not promise that I will succeed on that part.

I have anything but "shallow understandings" of the subject. I am an Aesthetician and studied this subject extensively throughout college. It has nothing to do whatsoever with my own personal measure of what is beautiful and what is not. Beauty does not equal perfection, in my opinion. However, scientists think it does, and this is what we are discussing.

I am sorry but that is merely your opinion. Just Because other may agree with your opinion does not make your right or any kind of knowledgeable, what it does make you is in a group who believe said opinions.

Double-blind, published clinical studies are not a hoax. They are real, and they have been real for a very long time. They are not a joke, either. They follow strict protocol and take their research very seriously.

Nothing you have said and nothing in the OP has convinced me to take this any more serious then the hundreds of other things on the internet that people have proclaimed to believe in.

Negative. It is not an opinion. It is scientific data published by researchers. There is no such thing as opinion in clinical studies. Data is recorded and then an extrapolation is published on the outcome of that data, as related to the subject. And yes, it is a selective group of people.

Highly selective in there procedures I would say. But hey what would I know I did not even bother to read the studies.

I could be wrong you know. I't has been known to happen.

You just admitted that the supermodel with the facial symmetry is better looking than the fat comedienne. So stop it with the whole "I don't understand what this beauty nonsense is", because you just proved that you were being untruthful. You even editorialized on Rosie's weight. People who don't care about physical appearance would not make a statement that someone would look better if they lost weight. So just stop.

What are you talking about. I said that the other one shiffer or whatever her name is has a slight advantage in the looks department then Rossie. But who knows what crazy they harbor, in Rosie case it is kind of obvious, but the other may be just as nutty. I was basing it on your terms. Not mine. Because I dont really care for any of them, I see no reason to even think about it. Merely a difference in our definition of beauty, which again I did not even say that. I said looks.

Once again, you are attacking me personally. You have no clue about what my "level" is, and what I consider to be the coup de gras of beauty. I don't find either "dude" to be beautiful. However, the first photo is of a woman, not a dude. And glitz and glamour matter not a whit to me. You can put a tuxedo on a pig, but it's still going to be a pig.

You caught that did you? How astute of you.

Obviously what I was half assed implying did not get through. And for somebody who is so preoccupied with the "beautiful people" and such "blind" studies into this oh so mysterious phenomenon. The video was more or less there to show you how ridiculous and funny I find all you people to be. And yes I do agree with you that it is a majority.

Basically what I am saying is. That any of your examples on beautiful I was just trying to be polite by muddying the waters a bit on the difference between the two. But hey you know what? When you splashed the muddy puddle and stirred up the particles in it, after a bit the mud settles on the bottom and the water becomes clear again.

I do believe that once again this has become an issue of attributing different things to the same word. But as to what the majority think. That is quite obvious, you don't need a fancy study to tell you that. In its kind of obvious, and in fact two videos can explain what we already knew. The rest? Was another test also within a parameter.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

I'm sorry you don't believe that this is real when it most certainly is. But I am in the habit of denying ignorance. No, the reason you don't hear about it is because look what happens when I bring it up. That's why. It's not that hard to grasp. I don't care if you or anyone is convinced because the facts are the facts whether or not you'd like to believe them. Perhaps if you read those studies your eyes would be opened. But since you don't want to, how can you possibly attempt to counter them? You can't. That's the answer. So no, keep on trying to over-complicate my OP, but what I said was very simple and very true. The meanings of the word beauty don't apply to this conversation. At all. This is about how people can be extremely mean to beautiful people. All the girls in your videos are average and therefore do not apply to this thread. They are not the ones being affected by this so their experiences don't have any bearing on this conversation...so I don't understand why you would post them.

What I do understand, however, is that you don't understand. But that's okay. You're not alone--& in this case, that's not necessarily a good thing, but there you have it. So no, you're not even talking what I'm talking about.

And, keep in mind I'm not very bothered by the reality of the problem that I have spoken about--it's just the way things are. I want you to be aware of it so that perhaps you can think before you act should you ever be in such a situation. All I want is for people to stop knee-jerk reacting toward jealousy. Next time you see someone beautiful or someone who has everything you want, do me a favor and don't be jealous. That's all I want. And if you could do that, then I'd really respect that.

Well I think where a lot of you state that the topic is relative, I think the OP made it clear that this is more in a mathematical sense. I think it could be true, although I think that a large number of the population would never see it in this regard. i.e Someone is beautiful, because look at them!

I do think life can be a lot easier for people who are beautiful. Especially woman. I think beautiful ladies can get away with a lot more in life without suffering the consequences an average looking human would. Perhaps she gets a job a lot easier, perhaps she messes up doing said job but the boss says it's all okay because there is obvious bias. Perhaps she has a little fender bender with a average looking male on the way home and he's all chilled, because she's "like totally hot".

I think in life we do not always see or feel the small biases happening in everyday situations. I mean you can have a predisposition towards someone just based on their name and your previous experiences with people of the same name. Not even to mention looks (looks like a person I had a crush on etc.)

So life can be easier for beautiful people, I think especially in situations with new people. Obviously once a person makes their personality traits known it can influence relationships a lot. But males do think with their talliwackers, and this helps the good looking ladies A LOT.

a reply to: rukia

It seems to me there are a whole lot of folks on this thread who do, in fact, understand despite your attempts to suggest otherwise. Further, it would appear you may be the one who...doesn't understand.

Step back for a moment and think about what you are suggesting in your OP. At face value it would seem you are suggesting (in general) that beautiful people should be cut some slack because they're beautiful, that people shouldn't be mean to them, or be jealous of them...because they have it so hard. I take exception to this notion, and here's why...

It doesn't take long for someone who is physically attractive to a large group of people to realize people find them attractive. And it doesn't take long after that for these same people to use this to their advantage. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this, people should use whatever assets they have to their advantage in life. However, they should not be surprised when people have a negative reaction to it either. It's not their looks that people are jealous with, it's their ability to use them to gain an advantage over others. Apples to apples, looks should not factor into something like promotions, job titles, or how much a waitress makes in tips, or any number of other scenarios, but the fact of the matter is they do. And frankly, this isn't really fair. However, according to your logic people should just give these beautiful people a break...because they're beautiful. Your logic is flawed. It's not the looks people are acting adversely to, but rather the benefits they get from those looks (that others don't) which they're reacting to.

And then there's the whole insecurity issue with people who feel compelled to post about their own "good" looks on websites, and what a hardship they endure as a result of those looks, in an effort to place themselves (even if in their own mind) into that same group. But we've already covered that, so not to digress...

I think I would have a great deal more sympathy if the title (and theme) of this thread was how unfair it is to unattractive people, about how mean people are to people who don't fit the 'beautiful' mold. Because truly, if you think about it, they are the ones who truly do deserve some sympathy. They did nothing wrong, they never harmed anyone, they were just born that way, yet people snicker about them behind their backs and people pass them over, dismiss them, for no reason other than their looks.

So no, I don't feel bad for you or anyone else. I don't know what group I fall into, and frankly I don't care (which is how it should be, in my opinion). People shouldn't classify themselves into groups based on physical appearance in the first place. And people especially shouldn't classify themselves into a group based on physical appearance, and then judge how the world interacts with that group. Simply put...it's vain...and it is unattractive in, and of, itself.

a reply to: rukia

By the way, you've referred to numerous "studies" which bear out your point. I am aware of no such studies, nor have you cited any. Everything you have cited so far supports exactly the opposite of your argument. The only exception being for those who allow their egos to become so inflated by their appearance that they can no longer live up to people's expectations, but this is not your point (at least not that I can see anywhere in this thread).

Please cite some of these studies to which you refer.

a reply to: rukia

This is about how people can be extremely mean to beautiful people. All the girls in your videos are average and therefore do not apply to this thread. They are not the ones being affected by this so their experiences don't have any bearing on this conversation...so I don't understand why you would post them. What I do understand, however, is that you don't understand.

But that's okay. You're not alone--& in this case, that's not necessarily a good thing, but there you have it. So no, you're not even talking what I'm talking about. And, keep in mind I'm not very bothered by the reality of the problem that I have spoken about--it's just the way things are. I want you to be aware of it so that perhaps you can think before you act should you ever be in such a situation.

All I want is for people to stop knee-jerk reacting toward jealousy. Next time you see someone beautiful or someone who has everything you want, do me a favor and don't be jealous. That's all I want. And if you could do that, then I'd really respect that.

Hey listen! I am quite sure that whatever your getting on about you will get over it...OK.

Besides I don't know about that they seemed pretty hot to me, that one Carrie girl form myth busters show does also seem to have the hotness down pretty well, and even more so when her tatas even though fake for that little scientific study magically seemed to become more endowed.

Like I said, somebody seems to want a wee bit of attention, besides I have never actually seen a female who thought who had it so good in the looks department have any issues, its kind of an impossibility. Let me put it this way, I can put on a wig, shave, take some pictures with my most mysterious smile on, do a bit of touchup on the computer and put said pictures on some dating site. And I will have at least 10 dudes hitting on me by the end of the day.

Not because I am any great looker, though I think I can manage a bit of a Mona Lisa if I have to, or that I would be anything other then an obvious dude in a wig to people if they looked a bit closer. But because nature has so made it possible by way of billion and billions years of evolution that such things are quite literally a no brainier that most dudes wont even look a second time, most especially while in rutting season.

I have seen women who ate babys, and that I mean quite literally, even they have no trouble get dudes with there looks simply using less. Its really that easy if your a good looking female, in fact the only issue they have is that over countless generations having never have to put any effort into anything as they were always on the receiving end of that deal, that once they have to act on there own, or do something without the whole machinations of society, that they quite literately have not evolved to even be able to cope with it, much less understand things.

Quite literally what you have here is a creature who has never had to do anything and was always on the receiving end of things for eons and generations, that once that is removed or even muddied a bit, you all quite literally fall flat on your faces trying to do simple things which most dudes would not even notice or bat an eye at. And that also goes for all females more or less not just the ones who got looks.

It's merely one of the differences between male and female evolution and psychology. That if they leave the confines which they created or society created in said matting games. Its like watching a hamster trying to do calculus. Or then continuously run into the glass wall of there confines. It's actually pretty hilarious. But after the first few thousand times you see it. Then its just sad.

So whatever your issue, and if you say your so good looking. I am sure you will figure out why you may have problems with your current boyfriend, or all the other guys and boyfriends may not be so tuning toward you even though you think they should at a moments notice. I am sure somewhere out there if you apply yourself guys may be one day paying you some attention. Its really not that hard, in fact you don't even have to do anything. The best advice I can give females who think there so hot is. Try not to speak to often or give out to many of your thoughts, you will just confuse the poor fools.

But in all I am sure this is all another major none issue.

Besides, this word -> "beauty" I do not think it means what you think it means. For you it may be inconceivable, you should ponder that.

originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: GoShredAK

I often am so embarrassed I revealed myself I start a thread myself, then don't ever go back to it because I am embarrassed and I know people surely went straight into mudslinging.

Haha, there ya go again my friend.

I can relate to that directly.

Ill admit many of my posts I am afraid to review because I positive somebody flamed me and I have to be in the zone to come up with a worthy rebuttal.

It's a reason similar to why I don't watch negative videos, say for example crooked cops doing what they do, or senseless violence because that material will inevitably put me into a negative emotional state.

I never watch death videos because I know it'll stay in my mind forever.

Only when I feel on point will I leap back into a thread I regret posting in prepared to either defend or explain my stance. Not always equally as much I post things that I'm completely sure of and excited to defend. Generally on subjects that I am truly knowledgable in.

Regardless I respect all ATSers because opinions from all angles are equally valuable to me for different reasons.

I've learned a lot here and am still learning.

a reply to: MamaShredAK

Lol, well that was awkward, that was me up there, My wife and I share this old I phone for our Internet fun, I forgot she was logged in. Generally I'm the only one on ATS and she's the only one on FB......

Anyway, moving on.......

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: GoShredAK
Ah dude haters going to hate. Though I do not think the majority of people are so judgmental on such issues, simply because a great majority of people have there lives to live day by day, and have little time or energy for anything else. I think the greater part of this phenomenon is that people are to static in there lives so tend to scratch that itch on others windowshoping become to big of a hobby you know.

Some hobbies are better and less of a pain then others you see. You know what they say the idle mind is the devils playground, same in some way would apply to more physical activities as one tends to lead to the other.

Cool vids.

And ya you should have taken that fight to the ground, you were pretty outclassed in the striking match, your punches were not following through, nor were you testing the waters you were somewhere in between in your striking, and somewhere in between is were you don't want to be, as in a fight, it is not a direct route. And in a fight the most direct route is the most effective.

Besides against people like that who have a reach and high advantage and also happen to fight long its best to get in there faces then end up staying in there range trying to out strike them. A pawer, the dude kept pawing the air with his left all the time, something to think on.

But anyways cools stuff dude, almost makes me want to go out and do something, maybe at least start hitting the gym again if nothing else. This hobby of mine correcting all these people who are wrong on the internet does take up to much time I see.

"........and ainters gonna ain't" that's from a dumb, kind of funny movie.

Anyway, thanks a lot for the kind words, truly appreciated.

That fight was quite the experience. I somehow was able to dig deep and channel a mentality I wasn't sure I had. This isn't about me necessarily but about the human mind.

I should have been afraid and intimidated. I only had to drive 20 minutes, my opponent drove about ten hours (from Fairbanks to Soldotna Alaska, obviously someone willing to make that road trip must be prepared and have some serious confidence. He had also fought before and won. I knew these things, I had never been in a fight before, and was certain I had not trained adequately, also the timing was terrible as I was not myself for a few reasons I won't detail here.

What Im getting at is knowing I had the cards stacked against me I should have backed out but that was not an option, I was going to go in there and get my butt handed to me before I chickened out. I should have been petrified but instead I felt oddly calm.

When in the cage I went blank, to this day it feels like a dream. I was presented with so many reasons to back out, even my mouth guard felt very sharp and uncomfortable on the inside of my cheeks I had to cut it down so my mouth didn't blow up when I got hit.

Though I lost for me it was a victory because I proved myself I had it in me to step up, and I learned I could take a few punches right on the nose and keep fighting.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, poorly, sorry I am sleepy, is that in crazy new situations the subliminal mind can take over and we can do things we normally wouldn't even consider possible.

I'm falling asleep at the pod so hopefully this was somewhat coherent.

a reply to: rukia

People can be real jerks. Liking or disliking someone based on their looks alone is so shallow, it's a sickness of sorts. No one can help how they look. That this can affect how well people do at work, or in other situations, isn't a surprise, though. People do behave differently based on how others look, right or wrong. Heck, as a blonde, I can attest to that! Shame we can't all just like people for who they are!

originally posted by: GreenGunther
But males do think with their talliwackers, and this helps the good looking ladies A LOT.

Talliwacker? That's one I haven't heard before.

My friend, who is a retired Theatre Matron, told me, that without exception, the first thing that men do when coming out of general anaesthesia is to check the wee feller is still there. As long as that is still in place, all will again be right with the world and they can cope with whatever news might be coming their way.

originally posted by: Anaana

I don't think about whether someone finds me attractive, I just don't consider it relevant unless it is someone I want to be physically intimate with, I do not need in the course of my day to day life, to put my face or body on display, so it seldom comes up because I am not inviting that kind of attention or in the kind of environment where that kind of "displaying" is appropriate, such as sales, etc.

When we're talking about the natural traits (not make up, clothing, etc.) you don't need to put anything on display for this effect to happen. No effort is necessary.

Having the boss react one way when another person makes a mistake, and another way when you do (just waving it off and smiling at you, when he blasted the other for the same thing yesterday) - sure, it is not, directly a problem for you, and you can totally not notice there was a difference there.
You can even object when the coworker points it out, and say they are crazy, they are imagining things, you didn't get treated differently.
You can do this if you have no concern at all about the coworker and inequity aversion has been somehow eliminated from your internal drives. (it is believed to exist in all humans, and even shows to exist in some primates, but I suspect it can be repressed through individualist type of nurturing environment- just a tentative hypothesis).

Even so, it can still become a problem for you, when we get to these people who have been treated unfairly, and can do actual harm to yourself, your possessions, your career, your relations...

There will also often be the assumption that your choice to deny what happened is a choice to USE and profit off that effect- not that it is coming form a belief system that "if I ignore it, it won't happen anymore".

The only action I have found that solves this dilemma is, in such circumstances, to speak up and insist on justice, immediately. To do so, you'd have to acknowledge that what the coworker saw really happened, be aware of such subtle unfairness that happens without anyone making an effort or being aware they are doing it.

I consider it a problem when I am working with children (I used to teach swimming classes and horsebackriding) and I do not realize I am showing preferences due to the halo effect. Maybe it isn't a problem for me but what about the kids that end up developing their skills less because of this subtle prejudice?

originally posted by: Bluesma
Having the boss react one way when another person makes a mistake, and another way when you do (just waving it off and smiling at you, when he blasted the other for the same thing yesterday) - sure, it is not, directly a problem for you, and you can totally not notice there was a difference there.

And what do you do when you notice such an inequity taking place? I note that the boss is a twat and, one way or another, I call them out on it, you soon find it doesn't happen again.

You're misunderstanding what "displaying" is. Much depends upon the social circles that you move in and how competitive selections (including sexual) take place within those groups as to whether you are displaying competitively within that group, and that, given human social complexity, has very little to do with physical appearance in the sense you feel it does. Depending on competition levels, a weakness, such as your sensitivity to your appearance will be seen as a means of "getting through to you" or similarly, as in the case of your boss, a "he" may wave off your infractions because you have added decorative value, which as Gunther points out is, good for business. A "she" on the other hand may push you harder knowing that you will have to have a thick skin and she wants you, as a fellow woman, not to fall into being decoration. I've had both, and a few shades inbetween. I now have the best boss, one that just let's me get on with it knowing I can handle myself and the job.

I think beauty is quite "in the eyes of the beholder". Of course facial symmetry plays a part, but people establish their own, almost quirks to what really attracts them. I happen to find scars and little imperfections just absolutely charming! And even though I'm straight I am absolutely obsessed with Japanese women; they're just perfect to me♡

I feel blessed enough to have compliments on my appearance and I most certainly think it has lead to most males being nice to me and most of my close friends being males. I usually had more in common with guys and their kindness would help me out of my shyness. The only downside I've ever received is usually from other females.

Compliments aside I still am very insecure, but I think a lot of that is due to media and products telling women we'd look/be/feel so much better if we bought them. The only thing I'm too confident about is my eyes, but I can't leave the house without a compliment regarding them and I'm grateful to my mother for giving them to me.

originally posted by: Anaana

And what do you do when you notice such an inequity taking place? I note that the boss is a twat and, one way or another, I call them out on it, you soon find it doesn't happen again.

Calling them out on it is exactly what I refered to, but the boss being a twat? I can't generalize to that point, seeing that much of the time, it is so widespread, and the people are not even aware they are showing this bias, making such a judgement englobes a very large part of the population. It also includes myself and many people close to me who are not twats.

In any case, recognizing this actually happened and responding to it entails recognition that it happened and why.

or similarly, as in the case of your boss, a "he" may wave off your infractions because you have added decorative value, which as Gunther points out is, good for business. A "she" on the other hand may push you harder knowing that you will have to have a thick skin and she wants you, as a fellow woman, not to fall into being decoration.

Then you have misunderstood what I am refering to when I speak of the Halo Effect. I am not refering to feeling "sexually attracted". The halo effect is observed in both sexes equally, regardless of the sex of the person observed.

Yes.... in both men and women, there are people who are aware and make effort to not respond via the halo effect.
In those cases, they are people who have become consciously aware of this phenomenon - NOT people who claim it does not happen or exist, or that it will cease to happen if we pretend it doesn't or ignore it.

originally posted by: Bluesma

Calling them out on it is exactly what I refered to, but the boss being a twat? I can't generalize to that point, seeing that much of the time, it is so wide spread, and the people are not even aware they are showing this bias, making such a judgement englobes a very large part of the population.

In any case, recognizing this actually happened and responding to it entails recognition that it happened and why.

Yeah, I apologise, I only skimmed your post, I see now where I missed that.

Everyone is a twat at least some of the time.

originally posted by: Bluesma
Then you have misunderstood what I am refering to when I speak of the halo effect. I am not refering to feeling "sexually attracted". The halo effect is observed in both sexes equally, regardless of the sex of the person observed.

Yes.... in both men and women, there are people who are aware and make effort to not respond via the halo effect.
In those cases, they are people who have become consciously aware of this phenomenon - NOT people who claim it does not happen or exist, or that it will cease to happen if we pretend it doesn't.

What "Halo Effect"? It is not that I am misunderstanding you, I am just not subscribing to your belief that such a thing exists. You believe you are treated differently, and indeed treat people differently, because of the way you or they look and that that is a "Halo Effect". While I do not disagree that people are treated differently, and with varying degrees of inequity, for all kinds of reasons, I do not believe that that is a "Halo Effect" just when it is positively applied to "beautiful people." And, just because someone beautiful receives praise or criticism does not mean that that is because they are beautiful.

originally posted by: Anaana


What "Halo Effect"? It is not that I am misunderstanding you, I am just not subscribing to your belief that such a thing exists. You believe you are treated differently, and indeed treat people differently, because of the way you or they look and that that is a "Halo Effect". While I do not disagree that people are treated differently, and with varying degrees of inequity, for all kinds of reasons, I do not believe that that is a "Halo Effect" just when it is positively applied to "beautiful people." And, just because someone beautiful receives praise or criticism does not mean that that is because they are beautiful.

Look at the research - it is so overwhelming! At least give a little explanation of how and why you feel so many studies are false? The argument that they might be influenced by some corporations somewhere is way to general and vague.

Why do you insist on making reference to me personally?

originally posted by: Bluesma

originally posted by: Anaana


What "Halo Effect"? It is not that I am misunderstanding you, I am just not subscribing to your belief that such a thing exists. You believe you are treated differently, and indeed treat people differently, because of the way you or they look and that that is a "Halo Effect". While I do not disagree that people are treated differently, and with varying degrees of inequity, for all kinds of reasons, I do not believe that that is a "Halo Effect" just when it is positively applied to "beautiful people." And, just because someone beautiful receives praise or criticism does not mean that that is because they are beautiful.

Look at the research - it is so overwhelming! At least give a little explanation of how and why you feel so many studies are false? The argument that they might be influenced by some corporations somewhere is way to general and vague.

Why do you insist on making reference to me personally?

Why wouldn't I? You have repeatedly stated that you are framing this on personal experience and continually utilise your own experience. My experience disagrees with yours, but I appreciate that to be because we have had different, contextual, experiences. I don't think your experiences are "wrong" just different. I have yet to find any of the "evidence" that you have presented compelling.

Studies do not equal facts. I have already gone through that with you. A decision is made to look, it is a kind of editorialism, and then, of course, there is editorialism. Studies cost money, so who is funding the studies? Who is publicising those studies? None of it, from beginning to end, is based on objectivity, even subjects have to meet screening conditions.

Now, I am not interested enough to actually want to know, because it's all a bit first world drama, so I am walking away from this thread because I stopped reading women's mags some decades ago and this is their kind of fare, not what I come to ATS. If the studies were directed at combating tactics used by sex traffickers or the such like, but otherwise, here in the first world, we have equality laws that variously applied can (and should, if necessary) be utilised if we feel we are being unfairly treated professionally, personally and economically, so I just don't see it as a problem, for anyone other than the young that is, because they are vulnerable to similar exploitation. I see the studies that the OP referred to as more aimed at re-enforcing insecurities in a society that supports an multi-billion pound beauty industry, and little more. I do believe that children should be protected from those kind of advertising campaigns, and I do think that money on such research is invariably a commercial venture, but no, I do not believe in the Halo Effect.

a reply to: rukia

I've been watching this thread with interest. I am pushin' 40 so this old grey mare she ain't what she used t'be.

But in my teens and 20's, yeah... drop-dead-slap-your-girl-friend-cause-a-traffic-accident gorgeous. Sometimes there were issues. I had to be careful how I interacted with people sure, and some people were jealous and nasty, and of course many people (male and female) made all sorts of weird assumptions. But for the most part, if I treated people with respect everything was fine. I learned to cultivate good relationships with solid people. The social payoff vs. difficulty algorithm came out in my favor and I have always felt that way.

I felt lucky for winning that genetic lottery and people being defensive or even jealous was just the price, and it was usually something that could be overcome anyway. While good looks make an impression and you never know what baggage people are bringing with them when they meet you, in my experience how I treated people could usually overcome whatever fears, insecurities or assumptions they were bringing in. If it couldn't, I'd find better people to be with.

Looks don't last forever, and you'll miss 'em when they're gone, and eventually, they will be. It happens to us all.

There are downsides to being physically attractive, but they are relatively minor; the benefits outweigh the downfalls substantially. Considering the nature of modern society, complaining about being physically attractive is silly - mostly everything is in your favour, especially compared to those who are physically unattractive.

In terms of the Halo Effect, I believe it carries some merit, but physical attractiveness is not the only deciding factor. Other important factors are - size, height, speech, tone, facial expressions and overall demeanour. There are so many things we judge (both consciously and subconsciously) others on, physical attractiveness is just one.