All this anti Muslim propaganda is having an effect...

originally posted by: PresidentCamacho
They must have not been taught the "sticks and stones" nursery rhyme.

Yeah the old "sticks and stones might break your bones but firebombs will kill you". Is that the one?

a reply to: forkedtongue

I dont have any ideology.

You believe all muslims are potential terrorists. That's ideological in nature.

Because they are coming.

Yes Mr. Cruz, Or Mr. Trump, we believe you.

We already know of at least one.

And the logical fallacy rears it's head.

Not one American should die in America, because of a muslim immigrant.

So you don't care if they die for other reasons? Just not because of Muslims? See where you do have an ideology?

~Tenth

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: theonenonlyone

Again, this falls right into the hands of ISIS. They want Muslims at large to feel targeted, abused and discriminated against.

It'll be much easier to indoctrinate them if they already think the rest of the world is out to kill them. Funny how sometimes Americans don't realize the biggest security threat they face is themselves.

~Tenth

Unfortunately, these reactions are because of the increase in the number of people that believe radical Muslims are out to kill them.

It is hard to tell them otherwise after the recent events in France and San Bernardino.

Logic and PC don't stand a chance when survival instincts kick in. Most people rather be an alive bigot than a dead PC person with an epithat that says what a loving and brave person they were.

The labels bigot and xenophobe are becoming badges of honor. People don't care if you think them lower than low, if you think them as a coward or if you have any negative feels about them at all. People have for a long time now been conditioned to think about their own comfort and needs.

If they don't give a damn about their American neighbors, you don't really expect them to welcome some potentially dangerous strangers, coming into their neighborhoods bringing in changes they don't want.

While I agree with you there is one aspect that no one ever mentions.

Anyone who says they are concerned with muslim immigration in light of failed vetting procedures that resulted in attacks like we have seen recently in France and SB is automatically branded. If you dare to say you are concerned about the influx of so-called refugees, that have been proven to include radicalized extremists, you are branded a bigot, racist, xenophobe. There is no middle ground there. No possibility of just being cautious. No moderate position.

Think about that. The people who are calling you racist, bigot, xenophobe for being concerned about a very real and proven threat say you lump all muslims together in the extremist category - are lumping you into the extremist category of racist bigot xenophobe.

Is it possible to be cautious and concerned without being a racist bigot xenophobe?

That is why so many people believe that being too pc is dangerous. That is why we speak out about things like allowing a woman to wear a hajib that covers everything except her eyes for a drivers license photo. That license does more than let you drive a car, and you have no idea who is standing in front of you. It is illegal to tint the windshield of your car because it obscures the identity of the driver. It is illegal to wear a helmet with a mirrored face shield because it obscures the identity of the driver. But if you say the same about a woman in a hajib, you are a racist bigot xenophobe.

I don't get it. I will always err on the side of caution if I must err at all.

let's turn over-the-coin & see the other-side...


"3,110 killed by Muslims in America in 82 terror attacks (and Islam-related honor killings)

Since 9/11 there have been 89 killed by Muslims in America in 47 attacks


See also List of Jihadists and Terror Sympathizers in America by DC Watson
and
List of Americans Killed by Palestinian Terrorists



this little list is by no means complete... the source is:

www.thereligionofpeace.com...


also:

4/14/2010 USA Marquette Park, IL 5 2 After quarrelling with his wife over Islamic dress, a Muslim convert shoots his family members to 'take them back to Allah' and out of the 'world of sinners'.

4/30/2011 USA Warren, MI 1 0 A 20-year-old woman is shot in the head by her stepfather for not adhering to Islamic practices.

9/11/2011 USA Waltham, MA 3 0 Three Jewish men have their throats slashed by Muslim terrorists.

1/15/2012 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 30-year-old Christian convert is shot to death by a devout Muslim for helping to convert his daughter.

11/12/2012 USA Houston, TX 1 0 A 28-year-old American man is shot to death by a conservative Muslim over an alleged role in converting a woman to Christianity.

2/7/2013 USA Buena Vista, NJ 2 0 A Muslim targets and beheads two Christian Coptic immigrants.

3/24/2013 USA Ashtabula, OH 1 0 A Muslim convert walks into a church service with a Quran and guns down his Christian father while praising Allah.

4/15/2013 USA Boston, MA 3 264 Foreign-born Muslims describing themselves as 'very religious' detonate two bombs packed with ball bearings at the Boston Marathon, killing three people and causing several more to lose limbs.

4/19/2013 USA Boston, MA 1 1 Jihadists gun down a university police officer sitting in his car.

8/4/2013 USA Richmond, CA 1 0 A convert "on a mission from Allah" stabs a store clerk to death.

3/6/2014 USA Port Bolivar, TX 2 0 A Muslim man shoots his lesbian daughter and her lover to death and leaves a copy of the Quran open to a page condemning homosexuality.

4/27/2014 USA Skyway, WA 1 0 A 30-year-old man is murdered by a Muslim fanatic.

6/1/2014 USA Seattle, WA 2 0 Two homosexuals are murdered by an Islamic extremist.

6/25/2014 USA West Orange, NJ 1 0 A 19-year-old college student is shot to death 'in revenge' for Muslim deaths overseas.

9/25/2014 USA Moore, OK 1 1 A Sharia advocate beheads a woman after calling for Islamic terror and posting an Islamist beheading photo.

7/16/2015 USA Chattanooga 5 2 A 'devout Muslim' stages a suicide attack on a recruiting center at a strip mall and a naval center which leaves five dead.

12/2/2015 USA San Bernardino, CA 14 17 A 'very religious' Muslim shoots up a Christmas party with his wife, leaving fourteen dead.



READ the names/incidents & weep
Islam is not a religion it is a Proxy Army of adherents

What Im seeing here in Canada-khastan is a largely rural-urban divide on the issue. I live two hours away from Toronto in a small city that is 90% white european decent; "old stock Canadians" as our recently turfed PM would say. The only time you see an "arab fellow" is when they are your family doctor (irony much) Many have been lured "up north" from the GTA to practice medicine for a nice salary.

Im also very close to the city where a mosque was firebombed and burned down just after the Paris tragedy. What Im hearing around here is very much an "us vs them" and "why should we let them in here". Its based out of lack of exposure. A lot of people I know in the area are quite literally scared to go to Toronto for any reason (main reason traffic...its valid believe me) They have no experience with muslims and don't understand that there are thousands in the big cities who have lived "here" for years. They hear all about these "no go zones" and "shariah law" and consider it a threat to the community. So naturally they get hostile. I think the media is as much to blame for this as anything for this current divide.

Fortunately for me I did have some exposure. I lived in a mainly immigrant based area in college (cheap housing) and never felt threatened in any way. It was different, sure, and in the end I moved back to my rural routes. That exposure taught me that the vast, vast majority of people, regardless of cultural background, just wanted to live a normal, peaceful life just like you and I.

So I understand why both sides feel the way they do. Im not sure if it is a similiar divide in the US or not, but it wouldn't surprise me.

originally posted by: theonenonlyone
In one week...
There Have Been 19 Hate Crimes Against Muslims in the Past Week


Kind of sad that someone has to hied who they are...
US Muslim women debate safety of hijab amid backlash

So much hate in this world and usually directed at wrong people...
Muslim- Owned Cafe Defaced With Nazi Graffiti, Then Firebombed

Really spitting...
Chicago Woman Gets Spit On For Being Muslim. Here's Her Response

Of course there will be those who are suspicious because a good Muslim to them doesn't exist...
Muslim anti-Isis march not covered by mainstream media outlets, say organisers

Is this the reaction that the anti Muslims wanted?

Some will say I have an agenda and they would be correct. My agenda is to bring to light what is happening in North America, due to all the anti Muslim rhetoric and to show that it is creating hate and violence.

Welcome to reality. This is the kind of stuff that happens when people feel threatened in their own country. If you're looking for someone to point a finger at, you can point it at the Paris attackers and at Farook and Tashfeen.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
If it's playing into the hands of Daesh, then the MSM are culpable of assisting them in getting their wish.

Yes. It's true that MSM is spreading the hatred and fear. So are people like Trump. It's up to US to reject the hype from ALL sources. And it can be done!

I listen to MSM all the time, and I manage to reject the fear and hatred! I refuse to live my life in fear and I refuse to become a bigot. It's really as simply as that. One has to be WILLING to be afraid and willing to hate to let the MSM and people like Trump affect their opinions and emotions.

I agree totally, but there are certain people in society who rely on the little box in the corner to form their opinion.

My own parents are testimony to this unfortunately. I had a discussion with my Mum about the state of the world and she blamed Muslims for all the ills. I then asked her why she thought this was the case and she pointed to her daily paper and Sky news as her sources of information.

I have encouraged her to do a little bit of digging around on the Internet and look at the millions of Muslims who are speaking out against these terrorists. Unfortunately, I don't think she will and in all fairness it is difficult to digest the fact that we are being played and that life is not what we think it is.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Pretty well laid out post. I agree. Nobody cares about the labels anymore, they've been used too much and too often in the wrong context. It's just a word with no meaning now, like calling someone a butthole.

a reply to: St Udio

You have included some honour killings in your list so I think that your figures are a little distorted.

Do you have a breakdown on the figures of muslims killing muslims, honour killings, crimes of passion ect or is this just the number of killings by muslims?

If so I feel it would be responsible to include figures for killings by those of different religions and also atheists if we are to determine the true extent of the percieved threat and make a truly informed judgement on this.

a reply to: LSU0408

Anti-Muslim signs, gun sales spikes, maybe even lynches or murders I could understand, but firebombing a cafe just seems illogical.

a reply to: St Udio

Way to go posting links from an anti Muslim website in a thread about anti Muslim propaganda. Of course, if such sites existed about crimes by American Christians you would call that smear tactics I guess?

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: and14263

this is not actually entirely true some percentage of muslim parents bring their children up to hate the west,telling them how great the mother land is and how we the west have destroyed it ,and totally ignore the fact they have been fighting amoung themselves

And some percentage of Christians bring their children up to hate other races aka white supremacists. As long as the human race continues to see each other as different rather than as the same species there will always be hate and division on both sides. The stupid thing is we are all stuck on the same rock floating through the vastness of the universe and we can't get over "who's version of the bearded man in the sky is better" or "if there is even a bearded man in the sky" or "this imaginary line is my country stay out" or "you are a different colour to me therefore I hate you". We are doomed to fail as a species unless as a whole we get over the smallminded petty # that is going on.

No different than the animal instincts in the wild. They have their boundaries and other animals know not to cross that boundary. And they'll kill to make their point.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

My own parents are testimony to this unfortunately. I had a discussion with my Mum about the state of the world and she blamed Muslims for all the ills. I then asked her why she thought this was the case and she pointed to her daily paper and Sky news as her sources of information.

I have encouraged her to do a little bit of digging around on the Internet and look at the millions of Muslims who are speaking out against these terrorists. Unfortunately, I don't think she will and in all fairness it is difficult to digest the fact that we are being played and that life is not what we think it is.

Its the same thing on this side of the pond. The old divide and conquer technique for the win. Sad to say if it wasn't for the internet and the amount of information available I may have been one of those people as well.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Couldn't do it without the MSM thriving off of it in their attempt to make the right-wing look hateful.

originally posted by: and14263

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: and14263

this is not actually entirely true some percentage of muslim parents bring their children up to hate the west,telling them how great the mother land is and how we the west have destroyed it ,and totally ignore the fact they have been fighting amoung themselves

Yes.

And some parents bring their children up to be homosexual hating Christians - but not all.

EDIT: I wonder what the percentage is you talk of?

Clever. False, but clever. Nobody brings their kids up to be Christians that hate gays. You people claim that anyone that disagrees with gay marriage is a gay hater.

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: and14263

this is not actually entirely true some percentage of muslim parents bring their children up to hate the west,telling them how great the mother land is and how we the west have destroyed it ,and totally ignore the fact they have been fighting amoung themselves

And some percentage of Christians bring their children up to hate other races aka white supremacists. As long as the human race continues to see each other as different rather than as the same species there will always be hate and division on both sides. The stupid thing is we are all stuck on the same rock floating through the vastness of the universe and we can't get over "who's version of the bearded man in the sky is better" or "if there is even a bearded man in the sky" or "this imaginary line is my country stay out" or "you are a different colour to me therefore I hate you". We are doomed to fail as a species unless as a whole we get over the smallminded petty # that is going on.

No different than the animal instincts in the wild. They have their boundaries and other animals know not to cross that boundary. And they'll kill to make their point.

I think we are a bit more evolved than animals.... Well some of us anyway.

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: and14263

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: and14263

this is not actually entirely true some percentage of muslim parents bring their children up to hate the west,telling them how great the mother land is and how we the west have destroyed it ,and totally ignore the fact they have been fighting amoung themselves

Yes.

And some parents bring their children up to be homosexual hating Christians - but not all.

EDIT: I wonder what the percentage is you talk of?

Clever. False, but clever. Nobody brings their kids up to be Christians that hate gays. You people claim that anyone that disagrees with gay marriage is a gay hater.

What about those westboro baptist church folks?

I'm pretty sure that is what they do but only know what I have read in the news so could be incorrect on this?

a reply to: LSU0408

Nobody brings their kids up to be Christians that hate gays.

Wow. What planet do you live on?

a reply to: LSU0408

There are nutters and hate-mongers on both sides of the coin. The biggest issue is that a lot of the right-wing representatives (at least the ones I'm aware of) are pretty appalling. I mean, Ted Cruz immediately comes to mind.

I do think the left is probably a little better, but I also think they're more adept at hiding their dirty deeds, and I would prefer almost literally anyone in power but Clinton. What really gets to me as that it used to be that both sides were fairly good. Now you choose between one s***ty thing, and another, s***tier version of the same thing.

Republicans get a lot of flak nowadays, but it's really been corrupted from what they used to be.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Is it possible to be cautious and concerned without being a racist bigot xenophobe?

The truthful answer to that question is, yes.

Of course, being cautious and concerned are quite normal and very wise stances to take, until you have been able to determine that it is safe not to be. You don't go skating on the ice until you are able to determine if it is strong enough to support your weight, not just at the edges but out in the middle as well; unless you plan to remain restricted to just the edges.

However, the calls of racist, xenophobe, and bigot are just tools some people use to shame you into thinking they are right and you are wrong. The problem with this juvenile attack on people when they ask a question or express their concerns, is that is has horribly backfired.

People know in their heart of hearts who they are, and how they feel. You learn very quickly that when someone has an agenda, they quickly make up their minds to who they “think” you are, and what you believe, and no amount of conversation is going to change their mind. So you give up, because you realize it is a wasted effort, and any attempts you make at civil conversation is going to dissolve into attacks. You get used to being labelled as willfully obtuse, stupid, unintelligent, racist, xenophobic, afraid, a coward, bigoted, just to use a few of the most common labels used here on ATS. They use these labels to invalidate anything you have to say and dismiss you as just another person that is a part of the problem and one that irrationally fears ISIS and supports them.

This occurs so often, that people no longer care if they are attacked with these, or any of the other labels, they are so quick to use as a defense. Many have been desensitized to the labels, and they are subsequently being desensitized to those that practice the religion of Islam. Most are starting to question the fervor of these attacks, and the most logical reason, points towards insidious motives.