Russian destroyer fires warning shots at Turkish fishing boat on collision course in Aegean

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Syria was in violation of the two passages you quoted when it shot down a Turkish jet. That set the precedent.

Sorry man, but, that is just a complete miss! Firstly, no precedent can be set in this instance.
Secondly and perhaps more important: Russia violated Turkish airspace in a "transit passage" manner...in that Russia had no interest in Turkey, nor were they engaged in any action that was inside Turkey...making the whole event (Russia's overflight) absolutely legal by international law and convention.

Turkey on the other hand violated Syrian airspace with the intend of causing harm to Syria. There was no innocent over-flight, but rather a preplanned mission to actually case damage to Syria.

Very vast difference...so; the shooting down of Turkish aircraft in Syrian air was more an act of self-defense, while the shooting down of Russian aircraft (in Syrian air) was an act of vengeance, and completely illegal.

This appears to be pure fantasy on your part. Erdogan's actions are consistent with an ambitious politician attempted to extend hegemony over the region. This does not equate with an "immoral caliphate" and control by Daesh any more than Putin's drive for hegemony over the region is an "immoral third Rome" controlled by his handlers in Donetsk.

Wow, I wasn't going to ascribe "selective attention" in this instance, but I guess it is true none the less...Seriously man you need to pay attention to the whole, not just the parts you want/like.

Satan exists only in the minds of the faithful.

Again, you are not paying attention...I used that word in a rather different context...you kind of missed that. Perhaps you would like to "rethink?"

I don't know what his personal beliefs are. As for the Islamic Reformation, here's hoping it revitalizes the Islamic world by finding a way to live peacefully in the modern world.

Now you are just being willfully ignorant! I'm not talking about Islamic reformation, but rather the complete destruction of Islam
, and, in a manner that may make the "witch hunts" look civilized. Many of the less thoughtful masses are beginning to fear Islam...and that Son, is a far larger crime against Humanity.

It is more pressing that you view Putin's actions objectively. He has already wrecked the Russian economy, and is letting Russian boys die in Ukraine for no reason.

Unfortunately it appears that my view of Putin is far more objective than yours...

by your characterization; it would appear that the "good ole Russian boys" are in the Ukraine of their own free will...so...Putin technically wouldn't be involved with their decision making process...i.e.; that's on them, not Putin.

As for "wrecking" the Russian economy; How does someone do something like that and maintain an almost 90% approval rating? And, please don't come off with some lame "state controlled media" comment; that is worn out and no more true than in the West.

You might ask yourself which is the better candidate to be your Anti-Christ.

Well I wasn't actually referring to the "Anti-Christ" per se', more like a sort of "Anti-Allah", but, while I would place
Erdog(an) in that category, I would not be so unkind to Putin. But, IF you want an Anti-Christ; I could submit Obama. Though that is kind of pushing it since Obama doesn't have that kind of talent, or intelligence.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: 23432

uhm , actually Putin is finished i am told and Sergey Shoygu is being groomed for the presidency . April 2016 is expected replacement date .

You have an inside track on what is going on in Russian politics at the highest levels? Amazing.Since his term isn't up until 2018 you must have some sources there.

Yeah , ex Russian Airforce general who is a Circassian and a current Nato Airforce General who also is Circassian is a source to be reckon with i suppose .

But the info I gave you here is nothing secret ; if you spoke Turkish then you could find it online.



Btw

We all speak Turkish; so give us a link!

originally posted by: tanka418



We all speak Turkish; so give us a link!

tr.wikipedia.org...

eksisozluk.com...

www.turkrus.com...

www.haber7.com...

www.academia.edu...


Sergey says Nato has placed 200 nukes in 5 countries ,Turkey included .

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: tanka418



We all speak Turkish; so give us a link!

tr.wikipedia.org...

eksisozluk.com...

www.turkrus.com...

www.haber7.com...

www.academia.edu...


Sergey says Nato has placed 200 nukes in 5 countries ,Turkey included .

Wow! A glorified Fireman! Now there's an authority! What is he in reference to?

Your last link wanted too much personal information, it was denied, thus the PDF wasn't viewed.

Although, Sergey is correct; there are 90 nuclear devices in Turkey. 40 of which are aircraft deployable...

a reply to: tanka418

Talk about selective attention! Are you completely unaware that Putin has been testing other nations'airspace? As for your view of Putin being more objective than mine, don't make me laugh. You worship him like an idol with feet of clay. I can see how slimy both Erdogan and Putin are, yet you refuse to accept Putin for what he is: a hypocritical weakling who has to threaten Turkey with nukes because he knows Russia cannot defeat them in a conventional war.

If it is not because of the state controlled media, how do you explain Putin's utterly meaningless "90% approval rating" in the light of these cold, hard numbers:







Source.

Fortunately, both the United States and Turkey have the possibility of replacing our leader when they become as incompetent as Putin. Sadly, Russians do not.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Talk about selective attention! Are you completely unaware that Putin has been testing other nations'airspace? As for your view of Putin being more objective than mine, don't make me laugh. You worship him like an idol with feet of clay. I can see how slimy both Erdogan and Putin are, yet you refuse to accept Putin for what he is: a hypocritical weakling who has to threaten Turkey with nukes because he knows Russia cannot defeat them in a conventional war.

Yes, I'm aware of Russian "tests". Do you realize that there is still a very vast difference between "veering" into an airspace and crossing as a normal consequence of navigation. Just as there is a vast difference between entering an airspace as a consequence of normal navigation, and entering that airspace as a consequence of target navigation.

You have absolutely no idea what so ever what I think of Putin.

And no...I don't think he is a hypocritical weakling...I'm a bit more honest than that. Not sure quite how you think that a military that barely rates in the top 10 in the world compares with number 2...but you are free to believe what you want.

Here is something I think is a reality; "before mid 2017, Russia will pwn Turkey, NATO will throw Turkey under the bus."

a reply to: tanka418

You have absolutely no idea what so ever what I think of Putin.

The fact that you don't seem to understand that Erdogan and Putin are gangsters involved in a turf war speaks volumes.

originally posted by: tanka418

Here is something I think is a reality; "before mid 2017, Russia will pwn Turkey, NATO will throw Turkey under the bus."

Nato throwing Turks under the bus = Nato loses against Russians .

Nato will commit suicide you think ?

Have you actually read a Nato Doctrine , ever ?

originally posted by: tanka418

Wow! A glorified Fireman! Now there's an authority! What is he in reference to?

Your last link wanted too much personal information, it was denied, thus the PDF wasn't viewed.

Although, Sergey is correct; there are 90 nuclear devices in Turkey. 40 of which are aircraft deployable...

The fireman is Sergey the defence minister of Putin .



Sergey being a Turk has been reported by Turkish media since 2011 I guess .

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

You have absolutely no idea what so ever what I think of Putin.

The fact that you don't seem to understand that Erdogan and Putin are gangsters involved in a turf war speaks volumes.

Misinterpretation...
Your bad...

originally posted by: 23432


Sergey says Nato has placed 200 nukes in 5 countries ,Turkey included .

Does any one know how affective the S-400 are against this nuke threat?

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: tanka418

Wow! A glorified Fireman! Now there's an authority! What is he in reference to?

Your last link wanted too much personal information, it was denied, thus the PDF wasn't viewed.

Although, Sergey is correct; there are 90 nuclear devices in Turkey. 40 of which are aircraft deployable...

The fireman is Sergey the defence minister of Putin .

Sergey being a Turk has been reported by Turkish media since 2011 I guess .

Sorry man...the link you provided doesn't contain that data...It wasn't until I did a search of US data which seems a bit more complete. You might want to provide links to complete information in the future.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: tanka418

Here is something I think is a reality; "before mid 2017, Russia will pwn Turkey, NATO will throw Turkey under the bus."

Nato throwing Turks under the bus = Nato loses against Russians .

Nato will commit suicide you think ?

Have you actually read a Nato Doctrine , ever ?

NATO throwing Turkey under the bus is the only way to prevent war. To attempt to defend the criminals in Turkey is the suicide you speak of.

Watch over the next few weeks...watch the stupidity of Turkey. You will witness the beginning of the end.

And, yes, I'm aware that probability strongly suggests that NATO and the US will jump right in...sigh.

Is russia & turkey or rest of nato countries prepared to be nuked by either side? No winners on a nuke war, its utter madness i tell you...we are talking about the possibility of the tsar bomba landing on ankara...what world have we created when we can end it in a flick of a switch

Tank i can see nato throwing turkey under the bus & is the knly way to save face, t he turks have gotten carried away & possibly taken nato membership for granted & thinking they can keep being the delusional spoil brat. Remember Sadam was installed by the US in iraq & when the need for him wasnt there anymore they invaded his country & hanged him. The west / US doesn't have loyalty, it has self interests...

We have some news but the article title, is not polite.

Anyway, Mr Putin said turks licks americans and thats turk is problem. There will be no chance for russia and turkey to better their relationship from now on. link

This is a part of the anual Putin interview for his country. The article have an auto translate option under the main photo and article title, just click your flag. He also added that Nato hides behind turkey.

Also these news : link

and...

According to Turkish media a gigantic military operation is in final phase of preparation by the Russians with the Syrian army to occupy the entire area from the coast of the Mediterranean to the Euphrates River, including the strategic city Cerablus border with Turkey . Note that Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Ntavoutolgou bring home that Turkey will not allow anyone to enter the Cerablus than the so-called Free Syrian Army and this is a red line for Turkey.

All in all I hear the drums of war. Cerablus is JARABULUS in google maps.

a reply to: tanka418

Misinterpretation...
Your bad...

Then please clarify your position. I have made my position explicit, all you have done is accuse me of not understanding. The fact that you quoted international conventions to condemn Erdogan's policy strikes me as bizarre. It is like justifying the Valentine's Day Massacre on the grounds that the victims were in violation of the Eighteenth Amendment!

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

Then please clarify your position. I have made my position explicit, all you have done is accuse me of not understanding. The fact that you quoted international conventions to condemn Erdogan's policy strikes me as bizarre. It is like justifying the Valentine's Day Massacre on the grounds that the victims were in violation of the Eighteenth Amendment!

Originally you said; "The fact that you don't seem to understand that Erdogan and Putin are gangsters involved in a turf war speaks volumes."

Perhaps what you are failing to understand is that I do, in fact, understand what you are saying, however, I disagree with your characterization. Neither of these (ahem) "gentlemen" are Gangsters. They may be a whole raft of thing, but, Gangster isn't one of them.

What's bizarre is you not understanding the use and implications of International Convention and law. It fundamentally makes what Erdog(an) and the Turkish Air Force did with the shooting down of the Russian plane...illegal.

I think Putin is handling it quite well...so far.

Meanwhile, Erdog(an) seems to be doing everything he can gather the "balls" to do to aggravate the matter.

a reply to: tanka418

Thank you. Both gentlemen are involved in illegal activities. Putin runs his government using the same techniques that crime bosses do. He personally approves every corrupt business venture and uses his inside knowledge of loopholes to blackmail oligarchs into doing his bidding. Disloyalty is punished by death, economically or literally. As for Erdogan, his family connections to corrupt, illegal activities are well known. This is why " international law" is irrelevant. This is a turf war between two rival crime syndicates.

Putin has already signaled that he is about to throw Assad under the bus. He cannot afford a protracted campaign in yet another corner of the Near Abroad. The Russian Navy and Merchant Marine require unimpeded access to the Bosporus, and the Russian economy needs the Turk Pipeline to be constructed. Provided Russia gets to keep its Mediterranean port, it doesn't matter who heads the Syrian government. Contrary to what some people who are overly influenced by Russian propaganda, Turkey holds all the cards. All Putin can do is bluster to save face.

To the Nato will kick Turks out brigade : Cavalry is already here and you lot are missing a point here .

Turks can hold their own against any regional power such as Iran & Russia .

Before USA existed on this Earth , The Turks held their own against Iran & Russia & Europeans .

Turks do appreciate the alliance with USA and alliance with EU but Turks aren't just a sitting duck , waiting to be plucked by Russians & Iranians .

Turks also have nukes as well as a local industry to manufacture their own weapons . They also have a steady supply of fighters from Sunni World of 1.5 billion .

There are also sizeable minority of Turks in Russia & Iran & China who are rather unhappy with the regime in their respective countries .