Russian destroyer fires warning shots at Turkish fishing boat on collision course in Aegean

a reply to: Ploutonas

There's the Montreux Convention, there's precedent. Then there's the fact that the Turks could just close the Strait as they see fit, being in total control of the area. But it won't happen. Russia and Turkey will no go to war and the tiff will soon be forgotten.

If you look back at history (always a good place to start) you will see that the Soviets attempted to engineer the acquisition of the Straits in their dealings with the Nazis. With all the Soviet invasion and occupation of Eastern Europe, it is no wonder Turkey jumped into bed with NATO as an act of self preservation.

a reply to: paraphi

I like to think Russia would not have a happy time trying to take over Norway. They could not afford the beer for a start!

Our population is disarmed. So this would be a walkover for Russia. The walkover would be so fast that NATO wouldnt even have time to sitt Down around the table in Brussels to agree or not to agree to help us out. And we would probably be drinking cheap Russian Vodka hehehe.

Our hands are tied. We Norwegians want a solid military, but Our politicians dont. And Democracy takes Place at Our Storting where these idiots sitt.

originally posted by: Ploutonas
a reply to: paraphi

there is a whole topic about it also an announcement from russia about the straits. The straits are not turkish, but international. It belonged to the legion of nations and legion of nations made it international waters. Turkish have only strict authority. link this link is the oficial answer from Russia to Turkey. link and this news link

As you can see the first article which is western alliance friendly is more polite, it says they dont own it, but because turkey is the good boy for america and brits, they gave them the right to control, but without any treaty... unofficial.. The other 2 links are more pro russian and its more str8 frwrd. We have both type of news websites in my country, west friendly and east friendly. They differ in the way they write down the news, but the news are the same.

we have fresh news, with another tensions in the straits, a turkish submarine went near the Russian protagonist ship.
link

a reply to: Ploutonas

thats why I said we have to wait a couple of days, as we can all see, the ships pass normally now, even with some tensions.

The straights are indeed part of Turkey since 1936. Oh and the league of nations no longer exist thought id mention that. And since the amendment in 1982 Turkey has the right to close the straight to any nation they decide to be hostile. So yes they can close it to Russian ships and no one could stop them. I think the only reason they haven't is economic. However if Russia keeps up the bad press against Turkey they may decide its worth shutting it down to Russia to send a message. But I doubt it I could see that am escalating quickly and don't think Turkey wants that to happen.

a reply to: dragonridr

If Turkey did that.....not even NATO would be able to save them.

Having the right to do so and what is smart is probably what the Turks think about.

a reply to: dragonridr
Sorry it is not, maybe it is for your country, but your country does not represent the entire international treaty or will. In order to be official part of the turkey, all countries must agree and sign that. Not only americans and brits. Your not in position to take such decisions and a proof is the article I gave and the official opinion of Russia, not only Russia, also my country does not accept that and bulgaria and many others.

Anyway we have some news but in the convoy topic about syria, moving there now.

a reply to: 23432

Yeah okay, this whole bit of Putin 'disappearing' for 9 days was nothing but a tempest in a teapot as we say in the west. He was letting the heat cool down for the murder of the political activist that was shot in front of the Kremlin. Smart move. I doubt Putin would have had him taken out that way,and yet was being blamed for it. He took action to get the heat off of him is all. The western media went hog wild with all kinds of nonsense that wasn't even remotely true. As you can see,he is still in office and none the worse for wear.

As far as Russia taking over the world,think about this....according to the Heartland Theory whoever has Moscow and the surrounding countries by Moscow,rules the world. I grew up during the cold war in the US and I never once heard anything about the USSR running the world. Funny about that. Russia has released more countries from their orbit after the breakup of the USSR than any other country,yet people insist that Russia is trying to take over the world because it fits they're mantra of "The Russians are coming,the Russians are coming".

I would say that the US and the west are the real ones to watch.After all,how many countries have we 'liberated' in the past 50 years (against their wishes). I mean comon,we tend to put dictators in an elected officials place when we do it. So I don't think its because we are trying to make the world a better place,now do you?

Now I understand that you live over there and have seen a different side of Russia than the rest of us.I'll give you that.You wanted to be Turkish or whatever.Fine. But do not blame Russia for the mess with ISIS going on in Syria when our own media has been reporting that the US has caused,backed up,supported,and helped finance ISIS. THAT IS NOT RUSSIA'S DOING.Whether we did it on purpose or accident,the fact is that we left all those weapons sitting around in Iraq after we left,and Saddam's former soldiers took it and started training their army over there.From there we decided to use them to do a proxy war for us because suddenly Assad was no longer our friend. And after all those people he tortured FOR US.

Now Assad is going the way that Qaddafi has gone,and Saddam. See we USE allies until we don't need them anymore,then they all of a sudden are killing their people and torturing them oh my! Nonsense.They either were doing it all along,or they don't do it at all. I don't believe they suddenly start torturing people and we drop them like a hot potato. We only have issues with people that want to go to a gold standard or refuse to do our dirty work anymore.

As far as Erdogan goes,he is so corrupt I can smell him from half way across the world. He is just another despot in a world full of them. I hope the people over there keep protesting till they bring him down.

a reply to: DJW001

I would trust the Russians over the Turks for sure.But I tend not to trust anyone anyway. I think the Turks are in bed with the Saudis,and they are all rolling around having a blast together.

This is old news. Nothing escalated from it and certainly not anything WWIII related. Time to shut it down. Come on mods!!!

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: 23432

Yeah okay, this whole bit of Putin 'disappearing' for 9 days was nothing but a tempest in a teapot as we say in the west. He was letting the heat cool down for the murder of the political activist that was shot in front of the Kremlin. Smart move. I doubt Putin would have had him taken out that way,and yet was being blamed for it. He took action to get the heat off of him is all. The western media went hog wild with all kinds of nonsense that wasn't even remotely true. As you can see,he is still in office and none the worse for wear.

uhm , actually Putin is finished i am told and Sergey Shoygu is being groomed for the presidency . April 2016 is expected replacement date .


As far as Russia taking over the world,think about this....according to the Heartland Theory whoever has Moscow and the surrounding countries by Moscow,rules the world. I grew up during the cold war in the US and I never once heard anything about the USSR running the world. Funny about that. Russia has released more countries from their orbit after the breakup of the USSR than any other country,yet people insist that Russia is trying to take over the world because it fits they're mantra of "The Russians are coming,the Russians are coming".

OK , I grew up in cold war era too . One of my easliest memories is to satnd at the edge of Incirlik Military base and watch my dad go over the plans of extention for the runway ; little I knew then that this extention was being built to accomadate Garry Powell'splane.
Russia has released Eastern European Nations but Russia hasn't released Caucasian & Other nations within Russian Federation .
In my case , Russians DID come , DID burn my village down , DID rape women , DID killed innocent men & Women & children .

I could put up some pictures and videos as evidence of Russian wrong doing but so I really have to ?


I would say that the US and the west are the real ones to watch.After all,how many countries have we 'liberated' in the past 50 years (against their wishes). I mean comon,we tend to put dictators in an elected officials place when we do it. So I don't think its because we are trying to make the world a better place,now do you?

Your government & any other government are the puppets as usual . We are ruled by " Corporate Capitalism " and as such you are of course correct about the USA to a certain extend.
Capitalist Democracies have to defeat Communist China and USA is our flagship , so to that extend USA's actions are somewhat unforgiveable yet palatable at the same time .


Now I understand that you live over there and have seen a different side of Russia than the rest of us.I'll give you that.You wanted to be Turkish or whatever.Fine.

If I want to have a Russian passport all I would have to do is ask for one . I didn't really wanted to be anything other then a Circassian but unfortunately my land has a big fat murderer called Putin sitting on it .




But do not blame Russia for the mess with ISIS going on in Syria when our own media has been reporting that the US has caused,backed up,supported,and helped finance ISIS.

Unfortunately for Putin , he played the wrong hand . Asad has killed 200.000 of his own people before Russians soldiers got involved but on the whole the Russian arms kept Asad in his position alas Russia carries some responsibility for the actions of a Client State .
DAESH is a creation of USA / UK / Israel according to Edward Snowden . Neo-Cons & Zionists cooked up this plan because they want to " Force the God's Hand " to bring end times .
I met some FSA commanders and I know that they only want to live in peace away from Asad's oppression .
Real issue here is Asad and his unwillingness to fall in line with Rothschild's plan .

THAT IS NOT RUSSIA'S DOING.Whether we did it on purpose or accident,the fact is that we left all those weapons sitting around in Iraq after we left,and Saddam's former soldiers took it and started training their army over there.From there we decided to use them to do a proxy war for us because suddenly Assad was no longer our friend. And after all those people he tortured FOR US.

Now Assad is going the way that Qaddafi has gone,and Saddam. See we USE allies until we don't need them anymore,then they all of a sudden are killing their people and torturing them oh my! Nonsense.They either were doing it all along,or they don't do it at all. I don't believe they suddenly start torturing people and we drop them like a hot potato. We only have issues with people that want to go to a gold standard or refuse to do our dirty work anymore.

Yeah , USA & UK foreign policy needs realism & pragmatism while Israel's foreign policy needs change .



As far as Erdogan goes,he is so corrupt I can smell him from half way across the world. He is just another despot in a world full of them. I hope the people over there keep protesting till they bring him down.

Erdogan is the most democratically elected politician . Just like any other politician , he has his skeletons in his closet too . That is how the " game " is played unfortunately ; you don't go looking for a virgin in a whorehouse and you don't look for politician with integrity . I thought that is well understood by everyone .
I would trust the electorate of Turks before I would trust the KGB/FSA spook Putin .

originally posted by: princeofpeace
This is old news. Nothing escalated from it and certainly not anything WWIII related. Time to shut it down. Come on mods!!!

Threads are not shut down because they are no longer topical. I've seen threads from 2007 spring back to life!

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: princeofpeace
This is old news. Nothing escalated from it and certainly not anything WWIII related. Time to shut it down. Come on mods!!!

Threads are not shut down because they are no longer topical. I've seen threads from 2007 spring back to life!

Agreed I've actually seen 3 old threads pop back up in the last few days alone....

a reply to: Dimithae

I would trust the Russians over the Turks for sure.

Why? Erdogan promised to shoot down any aircraft that violated Turkish airspace and he kept his promise. Putin makes weasley claims about events that he never backs up with evidence. We've seen pictures of oil tankers crossing into Turkey, but where is the paper trail that proves that it is ISIS oil being moved with the Turkish government's approval? We won't see it because the brokers are Russian "businessmen."

I think the Turks are in bed with the Saudis,and they are all rolling around having a blast together.

Not exactly. Turkey and Saudi Arabia are regional rivals. Normally, they don't co-operate, but Turkish and Arabian elements are contributing to ISIS out of complex religious and geo-political motivations. Russia and Iran are also regional rivals who are also co-operating temporarily to address shared short term goals.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Dimithae

Why? Erdogan promised to shoot down any aircraft that violated Turkish airspace and he kept his promise. Putin makes weasley claims about events that he never backs up with evidence.

A couple of concepts for your "shot down" BS!

1. Innocent Passage

Innocent passage is a concept in law of the sea which allows for a vessel to pass through the territorial waters of another state subject to certain restrictions. The UN Convention on the Law of the Sea defines innocent passage as:


Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law

-- en.wikipedia.org...

2. Transit Passage

Transit passage is a concept of the Law of the Sea which allows a vessel or aircraft the freedom of navigation or overflight solely for the purpose of continuous and expeditious transit of a strait between one part of the high seas or exclusive economic zone and another. The requirement of continuous and expeditious transit does not preclude passage through the strait for the purpose of entering, leaving or returning from a state bordering the strait, subject to the conditions of entry to that state.

-- en.wikipedia.org...

So...how legal was that earlier action? Erdog(an) is a mean (average) corrupt individual that is more likely to stretch and violate international law, and even his own for his own purpose. His only goal is to establish his illegal and immoral caliphate, which he won't even be allowed to run...his Daesh handlers will to see to that.

You and a few others here only support him because he tries to stand up to Russia, while the reality is that Erdog(an) is one of the worst things that has ever happened to Turkey, and, if he get his way; the world. He is not a proponent of democracy, and wishes to enslave not just Turkey, but the world with his (for now we'll call it "Satanic") ways.

Oh, and by the wa; he isn't quite Islam either! He and Daesh are more like the Islamic "anti-Christ", and are doing more than any other figure in Terrestrial history to destroy Islam.

Fortunately, by this time in 2017...he'll be gone...

In the mean time, you and some others may want to actually think about this...and be honest with yourselves and the world.

a reply to: tanka418

So...how legal was that earlier action?

Syria was in violation of the two passages you quoted when it shot down a Turkish jet. That set the precedent.

Erdog(an) is a mean (average) corrupt individual that is more likely to stretch and violate international law, and even his own for his own purpose.

Agreed, he is no better than Putin.

His only goal is to establish his illegal and immoral caliphate, which he won't even be allowed to run...his Daesh handlers will to see to that.

This appears to be pure fantasy on your part. Erdogan's actions are consistent with an ambitious politician attempted to extend hegemony over the region. This does not equate with an "immoral caliphate" and control by Daesh any more than Putin's drive for hegemony over the region is an "immoral third Rome" controlled by his handlers in Donetsk.

You and a few others here only support him because he tries to stand up to Russia,

I cannot speak for others, but I do not support him. He is corrupt and venal. I do admit, however, that it gives me infinite schadenfreude to see the nasty little bugger grind Putin's nose in the Russian's excrement.

while the reality is that Erdog(an) is one of the worst things that has ever happened to Turkey,

Mmm... agreed. (We'll overlook everything before 1918.)

and, if he get his way; the world.

You seem to think that just proving Putin impotent makes Erdogan a threat to the entire world. Putin knows that Turkey can defeat Russia militarily without the help of NATO. That makes him a threat to Russia, not the world.

He is not a proponent of democracy,

Correct.

and wishes to enslave not just Turkey, but the world with his (for now we'll call it "Satanic") ways.

There goes your imagination again. Satan exists only in the minds of the faithful.

Oh, and by the wa; he isn't quite Islam either! He and Daesh are more like the Islamic "anti-Christ", and are doing more than any other figure in Terrestrial history to destroy Islam.

I don't know what his personal beliefs are. As for the Islamic Reformation, here's hoping it revitalizes the Islamic world by finding a way to live peacefully in the modern world.

Fortunately, by this time in 2017...he'll be gone...

Hopefully, he will take that madman Putin with him.

In the mean time, you and some others may want to actually think about this...and be honest with yourselves and the world.

It is more pressing that you view Putin's actions objectively. He has already wrecked the Russian economy, and is letting Russian boys die in Ukraine for no reason. No American or European politician is singing the praises of Erdogan, yet some people seem to worship Putin as though he were the Second Coming. You might ask yourself which is the better candidate to be your Anti-Christ.

a reply to: DJW001

Putin makes weasley claims about events that he never backs up with evidence. We've seen pictures of oil tankers crossing into Turkey, but where is the paper trail that proves that it is ISIS oil being moved with the Turkish government's approval? We won't see it because the brokers are Russian "businessmen."

He never backs up with evidence,or just that there is no evidence that is 'good enough' when it comes to the west? We have put out much shakier claims with ridiculous proof,but thats okay.After all it is us doing it right? Nonsense. I am sure that Putin is going to go into Turkey and stop off at an oil refinery place and ask them for papers on who is buying the oil and where it came from. Lol.

As far as the silly claims that it is Russian business men who are brokering it? Well here we go with claims with no proof. See what I mean? Now why in the world would Russia need to buy oil,when they have one of the largest oil supplies in the world? Yet they feel this incredible itch to go all the way to Turkey to purchase more? This has to be a joke.

a reply to: Dimithae

He never backs up with evidence,or just that there is no evidence that is 'good enough' when it comes to the west? We have put out much shakier claims with ridiculous proof,but thats okay.After all it is us doing it right? Nonsense. I am sure that Putin is going to go into Turkey and stop off at an oil refinery place and ask them for papers on who is buying the oil and where it came from. Lol.

Remember MH-17? All that "evidence" that kept changing?

As far as the silly claims that it is Russian business men who are brokering it? Well here we go with claims with no proof. See what I mean? Now why in the world would Russia need to buy oil,when they have one of the largest oil supplies in the world? Yet they feel this incredible itch to go all the way to Turkey to purchase more? This has to be a joke.

Some countries won't buy from Russia or Iran. Some countries won't sell to Israel. Russians have extensive "black" financial holdings in the Eastern Mediterranean. Red Mafiya are situated perfectly to obtain oil from a variety of sources, launder its paper trail and sell it at below market value and still make a profit. Don't pretend you've never heard this before; it's been common knowledge for a while.

a reply to: 23432

uhm , actually Putin is finished i am told and Sergey Shoygu is being groomed for the presidency . April 2016 is expected replacement date .

You have an inside track on what is going on in Russian politics at the highest levels? Amazing.Since his term isn't up until 2018 you must have some sources there.

a reply to: Ploutonas
(I replied to myself, because I posted the demands of Russia - Bellow is the turkish answer).
Today Turkey answered to Russian request for peace talks (decline) : link


(you can create a topic for the news bellow, if needed)
Minister of external affairs said during an interview : We can invade and take over russia in 7 days. link

the link above have an auto-translate flag, under the main title of the article and picture.

This relates to Turkish decline for apology and compensation for the fallen aircraft : more sanctions up to 20 billion and overall the 3% of Turkish annual growth.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: 23432

uhm , actually Putin is finished i am told and Sergey Shoygu is being groomed for the presidency . April 2016 is expected replacement date .

You have an inside track on what is going on in Russian politics at the highest levels? Amazing.Since his term isn't up until 2018 you must have some sources there.

Tried to get evidence on other thread about claim from him and he just deflected for 3 pages. BS

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: 23432

uhm , actually Putin is finished i am told and Sergey Shoygu is being groomed for the presidency . April 2016 is expected replacement date .

You have an inside track on what is going on in Russian politics at the highest levels? Amazing.Since his term isn't up until 2018 you must have some sources there.

Yeah , ex Russian Airforce general who is a Circassian and a current Nato Airforce General who also is Circassian is a source to be reckon with i suppose .

But the info I gave you here is nothing secret ; if you spoke Turkish then you could find it online.



Btw