NLBS 03.07: Radical Right Wing Terrorism; That's Right, We Said it.

originally posted by: Kali74
Might want to pop an umbrella for the flooding tears that are surely coming.

If this was a gay-bashing thread, would you say the same thing?

a reply to: Bone75

I don't know why they think its tears, their the ones that think their stats are some kind of revelation. Muslims who make up less than 1% of the population commit less murders than 99.2%.

Umm grats, statistics matter with proportionality

a reply to: sprockets2000

"No one talks about it" Are you kidding, its all you hear. The reason most of the world doesn't talk about it, is because its a non-issue. There have been two killings of abortion doctors in 10 years, I hardly feel thats news worthy when Muslims commit terrorist acts every single day

Those of us that watched the video know that part of the issue is how terrorism if defined and tallied.




Since 1990, 670 people have been killed and 3,053 injured in attacks by far-right extremists in the United States, according to a new study by the Combating Terrorism Center (CTC) at West Point. Perhaps more frightening, the CTC says its data shows the number of violent attacks has increased precipitously since the late 1990s, and especially since 2006.
Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America's Violent Far-Right
Figure 1 - Attacks Initiated by Far-Right Groups/Individuals per Year

a reply to: introvert

Why did that crazy dude shoot-up a PP? Could it be because he was exposed to Right Wing propaganda? Are you intellectually honest enough to consider that possibility? If Left wing nuts can be moved by Left Wing propaganda, surely Right Wing nuts can be moved by Right Wing propaganda, right?

You talk about intellectual honesty, but you don't practice it. At least, not when it interferes with your agenda. Look at it honestly. You claim that right wing propaganda is what made this nut job kill people. You attempt to qualify that by demonstrating that left wing propaganda motivates left wing nuts, so right wing propaganda must do the same. You completely miss the fact that we are talking about shooting people, not voting or demonstrating. Its not a fair comparison at all if you assert that exposure to propaganda makes people commit murder when only a very small percentage of the people exposed to it react that way. And of those people, only the ones with some additional condition like mental illness that makes them susceptible to influence must also be present. And only then IF the motivation was actually derived from the propaganda. Being intellectually honest, do you really believe it is fair to take such a small percentage of a very small sub-group and portray them as exemplar of the whole? How can you blame the mass media propaganda when it allegedly affects such a small percentage of a very small sub-group of the masses?

Or, if you do believe that is fair, then we must assume, based on your earlier qualification, that left wing nuts must all have some mental illness that makes them susceptible to propaganda. I am willing to accept that as fact if you are.

You assume too much and the insults received have been earned.

And who made you judge and jury? And why do you think you get a pass on the T's&C's?

How many people are you going to attack on these boards, then insult them, then feign some lack of interest when they shoot down your biased opinions? From thread to thread your game is the same every time. Its getting old. Very old.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: sprockets2000

"No one talks about it" Are you kidding, its all you hear. The reason most of the world doesn't talk about it, is because its a non-issue. There have been two killings of abortion doctors in 10 years, I hardly feel thats news worthy when Muslims commit terrorist acts every single day

Those of us that watched the video know that part of the issue is how terrorism if defined and tallied.




Since 1990, 670 people have been killed and 3,053 injured in attacks by far-right extremists in the United States, according to a new study by the Combating Terrorism Center (CTC) at West Point. Perhaps more frightening, the CTC says its data shows the number of violent attacks has increased precipitously since the late 1990s, and especially since 2006.
Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America's Violent Far-Right
Figure 1 - Attacks Initiated by Far-Right Groups/Individuals per Year

Geez

Look at your own study

Group/movement Number
of
attacks*
1990s
vs.
2000s
ratio
Proportion
of mass
casualty
attacks
Proportion
of attacks
with Fire
arms
Proportion
of attacks
with
explosives
Proportion
of attacks
against
human
targets
Avg.
number
of
injured
Avg.
number
of
fatalities
Avg. number
of casualties
KKK 264 0.123 3% 10.9% 7.1% 28.5% 0.39 0.07 0.46
Neo-Nazi 124 0.362 3.2% 31.4% 10.4% 83.1% 1.65 0.35 2.00
Skinheads 205 0.265 2.4% 21.4% 0.04% 96% .73 0.24 0.97
Militias 87 1.23 14.9% 63.2% 67.8% 90.8% 14.04
0.77**
3.97
0.55**
18.01
1.32**
Christian
Identity
66 1.64 13.6% 65.1% 19.6% 94% 2.49 0.34 2.83
Anti-Abortion 227 8.08 7% 10.1% 23.3% 26.2% 0.27 0.03 0.30
Unaffiliated 3354 0.09 1.8% 0.07% 0.05% 52.1% 0.49 0.08 0.57

Unaffiliated I wonder what that is, further this study is a bogus as they come, with both human targets and non-human targets tallied in the numbers.

To even suggest that "right-wing" terror and the other which no one likes to even mention though its about as bad and may be worse with anarchist (left wing) terror is even close to the level of Muslim Terror is so intellectually dishonest, I can only conclude that anyone stating it, has a political agenda

a reply to: sprockets2000

I did look at the study.

This is about the radical right wing.

As far as the study being bogus as you claim let's just say I want to believe you. Why should I?

a reply to: sprockets2000

"No one talks about it" Are you kidding, its all you hear.

Where?

I hardly feel thats news worthy when Muslims commit terrorist acts every single day

In the West?

22 percent were categorized as extreme left-wing.

Yes and as stated many times in this thread by those of us not on the Right... that's a problem. A problem that isn't ignored or denied by us or by Western governments.

But, what was this thread about again? Somehow we keep ending up talking about Muslims and Leftists.

a reply to: Bone75

I don't understand your either or logic. This isn't a right wing or Christian bashing thread.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Well according to the Department of Homeland Securities own study its not true. They also have the emerical data to prove it.

The DHS-funded study released last year by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism, America’s militant left is far more likely to engage in acts of violence than its militant right. According to the report — entitled “Hot Spots of Terrorism and Other Crimes in the United States, 1970-2008” — the overwhelming majority of domestic terrorist attacks in America have been “extreme left-wing” in their ideological origins (364) followed closely by single-issue groups whose ideologies were classified as “other” (337).

But like I said, left wing terror, right wing terror, its peanuts compared to Islamic terror.

a reply to: sprockets2000

It's tears because judging on past threads it was kind of a given that many people would cry victim in response to this one. Was I wrong?

ETA: Actually, you know what... I'm not feeling too good about what I just said. I was wrong. It wasn't fair of me to assume how people would react and I shouldn't have done that. I apologize to everyone for doing that. I feel that I have said a lot of valid things in this thread but that isn't one of them.

a reply to: sprockets2000

From your link

To be clear, the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) does not classify
individuals as terrorists or extremists based on ideological perspectives.


That is one of the main points of the video.

If no organization claims responsibility then it isn't counted as terrorism.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Look at it honestly. You claim that right wing propaganda is what made this nut job kill people.

I said it is possible. Highly likely. You have to pay close attention to the language used.

You attempt to qualify that by demonstrating that left wing propaganda motivates left wing nuts, so right wing propaganda must do the same.

That was an attempt to soften the discussion by admitting Left Wing propaganda can also have an effect on Left Wing nuts, and open the door for Right Wing people to conceded the same on their part.

Its not a fair comparison at all if you assert that exposure to propaganda makes people commit murder when only a very small percentage of the people exposed to it react that way.

I never said anyone and everyone that is exposed to propaganda will act out violently.

Being intellectually honest, do you really believe it is fair to take such a small percentage of a very small sub-group and portray them as exemplar of the whole?

I never claimed the whole Right Wing was going to act-out as some extremists have.

How can you blame the mass media propaganda when it allegedly affects such a small percentage of a very small sub-group of the masses?

Only a small percentage act out violently. You can see the effects of the propaganda in other ways, such as the lock-step rhetoric and talking points the Right Wing uses. You do know that propaganda is a tool used to mold the mind to think and react a certain way, correct? It's not just about their physical action that are tied to propaganda.

Or, if you do believe that is fair, then we must assume, based on your earlier qualification, that left wing nuts must all have some mental illness that makes them susceptible to propaganda. I am willing to accept that as fact if you are.

The nuts, sure. But then how do we reconcile the difference between those on the Left that are not nuts, that have been exposed to propaganda, yet do not regurgitate the propaganda ad hominum as does a large majority of people on the Right that are not nuts?

Big difference there.

And who made you judge and jury? And why do you think you get a pass on the T's&C's?

I'm not judge or jury, nor am I getting a pass on T and C's. That was merely my opinion. You do understand having an opinion is not equal to being "judge and jury", correct?

How many people are you going to attack on these boards, then insult them, then feign some lack of interest when they shoot down your biased opinions? From thread to thread your game is the same every time. Its getting old. Very old.

I have no choice but to feign interest at times because what you consider "shooting down my opinion" has actually been cases where I have had to back-off of the discussion because the only proper response would be to highlight the fact that some of you are downright nuts.

Yes, I understand that you are sensitive and will take that as a personal attack, but I don't mean it personally. In general, as a way of properly describing the way people conduct themselves and their process of thought, many people are fricken nuts.

It's to the point now that I have certain members, including yourself, that stalk me on these boards because they feel it is their mission to somehow catch me on my heels.

If it's getting old, find someone else to obsess over. You have the freedom to do other things with your time than worry about little ole me.

a reply to: Grimpachi

And you dont think that there are ton of Islamic events that are not counted? How about black events or left wing events, or white events or all kinds of events that ARE ideological but they dont find the link.

If you take the time to look it up you will find tons of Muslim violence that could be attributed to terror that isn't

DO I deny that right wing terror exist, no. But its not some big bogey man, the only real bogey man across the world is Islam

a reply to: sprockets2000

If you take the time to look it up you will find tons of Muslim violence that could be attributed to terror that isn't

The question is, how does Muslim violence get reported in the media and discussed on here. Does anyone deny that the Boston bombings or the recent lunatics in Calli were terrorists. Didn't think so. Use the same standard to label the PP attack and you get a sh!t storm of denial.

But its not some big bogey man, the only real bogey man across the world is Islam

I disagree. If you said Abrahamic religion I would be inclined to agree or maybe the few do not define the whole.

a reply to: introvert

I said it is possible. Highly likely. You have to pay close attention to the language used.

What are you saying, that you suggested it because you don't think its true? You want to fall back on the 'possibly' rather than fact aspect. Fine. Just be sure to show the same courtesy to everyone else on every topic or you might be branded a hypocrite.

I never said anyone and everyone that is exposed to propaganda will act out violently.

I never said you did. You have to pay close attention to the language used. But you did suggest that the propaganda was 'possibly' responsible. And my point is still valid. How can you assert it is the propaganda's fault when only a very small percentage of a very small sub-group of people who see it are affected by it? Logic would suggest that something else was to blame, not the propaganda. Do you not understand that or is it simply convenient to ignore it?

Only a small percentage act out violently. You can see the effects of the propaganda in other ways, such as the lock-step rhetoric and talking points the Right Wing uses. You do know that propaganda is a tool used to mold the mind to think and react a certain way, correct? It's not just about their physical action that are tied to propaganda.

This is not insult or exaggeration. I have never seen a better poster child for the behavior you are describing than you.

The nuts, sure. But then how do we reconcile the difference between those on the Left that are not nuts, that have been exposed to propaganda, yet do not regurgitate the propaganda ad hominum as does a large majority of people on the Right that are not nuts?

Big difference there.

You spew more partisan rhetoric than anyone. You really don't see it do you...

It's to the point now that I have certain members, including yourself, that stalk me on these boards because they feel it is their mission to somehow catch me on my heels.

No. Absolutely not. NO. Not going to happen. I called you out for stalking me from thread to thread a month ago and you know it. You aren't going to spin this into you being a victim. You follow me from thread to thread spewing the same lame partisan rhetoric. I called you out for it and you ran crying about it. You don't get to play the victim on that one. Not with me. I know better.

You spend your day throwing rocks at people. Then when they pick them up and throw them back, you feign disinterest and try to casually walk away as if all the rock throwing is beneath you. Sorry. Not working.

Lets not forget what the intent of this video was. From the OP

"Or is there a much larger threat that is generally under-reported, that requires much more closer scrutiny by mainstream media pushing the Muslim boogey-man down our throats? "

The video goes on to suggest that right wing terrorism is WORSE than Islamic terrorism (in the US). It is not saying there are extremist on all sides, it says right wing terrorism is a bigger threat. So it is not the innocent even handed thread that many on here have suggested.

This claim is based off of one study by Arie Perliger. I read much of the study, and I find that there are some problems with it when it comes to the OP video's suggestion that right wing terrorism is worse than other kinds. Taking the numbers at face value.

As Grimpachi stated, this article shows that since 1990, 670 people have been killed and 3,053 injured in attacks by far-right extremists in the United States. Islamic terrorist killed 2752 on 9-11 alone, so just looking at the numbers, this seems to show Islamic terrorism has caused more damage than right wing terrorism.

When you look deeper, you see that the statistics for what qualified as right wing terrorism were as follows

The dataset documents all violent attacks that: (1) were perpetrated by groups or individuals affiliated with far-right associations; and/or (2) were intended to promote ideas compatible with far-right ideology, based on the ideological analysis presented in the first part of this study

and

Data gathering was based on a variety of resources including relevant information drawn from the Global Terrorism Dataset; the SPLC hate crime dataset; informative reports by various relevant organizations such as SPLC, ADL, RSCAR; relevant academic texts; and various media source datasets, e.g., Lexis-Nexis

So any hate crime committed by a white person against a minority is considered right wing terrorism. The problem with this is that it is wrong to claim racism is just a conservative problem. If all white racists are to be considered right wing terrorists, then to be fair we should consider all anti white racists as left wing. In this case, all black on white violence such as the knock out game would be left wing terrorism.

If we do that, we see statistics that show that blacks are 27 times more likely to commit crimes against whites than the other way around. This seems to suggest left wing terrorism is a far more serious problem.

www.vdare.com...

I have no problem acknowledging extremist from all sides of the spectrum. I also think that these incidents are overblown by all sides, and this usually ends up in a stripping of our rights which I am vehemently against. I fail to see how the one sided approach in this video is helping stop this problem

a reply to: theNLBS

I'm astonished by the number of conservatives replying to this thread who either want to plug their ears, jump on the persecution bandwagon or simply fail at compriension*. No one is saying that your beliefs make you a terrorist. Thats some utter nonsense that you're making up on the spot as an excuse to climb up on your crosses. It's only if you personally were to allow those ideals to be an excuse to become violent and use fear (terror) to make your point that you'd cross the line. i'm guessing most of you aren't that kind of people. Lableing the obvious ideological sources and motives of some crimes, in this specific case idiologies openly claimed by the Right Wing in the hands of the deranged, is not the same as denouncing the ideology itself. So please, put your crosses away.

*perhaps the comprehension thing is a more serious issue. it's become very popular to lump everyone of whatever likeminded ideology (like religion or politics for example) togeather as though at their core they were all the same person, or like we were talking about team sports. This is a very real problem and I hope at least a few people who have gone out of their way to decide to be personally offended by this video and recognize how crazy it would be to lump good conservatives in with the violent few can step back and apply that lesson to not lumping (for instance) good muslims who need a safe place to raise their families, in with the unhinged violent ones. Because it's the exact same thing, unfair and innacurate.

carry on