Transgender Issues Finally Gain Recognition On Capitol Hill

a reply to: Krazysh0t

They are citizens? They can hold jobs? They can vote? Free speech? Religion? Assembly? even marriage now. So they are federally protected as citizens. They want special protections that go beyond the rights of a citizen. They want special recognition.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Oh come on! You and I both know that it doesn't work that way. If it did, black people and women wouldn't have needed the very first Civil Rights protections in this country.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Apples and Oranges. There is no segregation to be overturned or done away with. They enjoy all of the same rights and protections. If some guy comes in wearing a clown outfit and it creeps me out I don't have to rent to him. There is no law that says I have to. This is the same thing. Take off the clown outfit if the job or house matters that much. Its not about rights its about privilege.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Women never dealt with segregation...

Also, you think it is fair to pay a transgender person less than someone who isn't just because they are transgender?

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Apples and Oranges. There is no segregation to be overturned or done away with. They enjoy all of the same rights and protections. If some guy comes in wearing a clown outfit and it creeps me out I don't have to rent to him. There is no law that says I have to. This is the same thing. Take off the clown outfit if the job or house matters that much. Its not about rights its about privilege.

The desired protections are to protect people with a medically-recognized physiological condition from idiots who equate them to people "wearing a clown suit".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

That claim has to be proven. Otherwise its just hot air or anecdotal at best.

a reply to: Abysha

They face discrimination when putting the clown suit on right? Otherwise no discrimination? If it is a medical issue or psychological there are protections for that. Americans with disabilities act etc. Whats funny is depending on the case people are trying to make they either have a "condition" or are "born that way". If its a condition why not treat it? Like other dysmorphic issues. We don't tell anorexics to lose weight because they see themselves as "fat" so why are we encouraging people to act out in a way that doesn't actually solve anything and induces unease in some people who are "normal" ( I say normal since the "condition" would be an abnormality).

Either way any perceived discrimination ( has yet to be proven and is very difficult to prove thoughts or intent) comes from their actions. Without those actions there is nothing to distinguish them from anyone else.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Glad you asked, I'll be more than happy to back my claims up with evidence.

The Gay and Transgender Wage Gap

a reply to: Krazysh0t

From your own source -

Transgender individuals also face significant wage disparities on the job. This is especially true for transgender women. One study found that the earnings of female transgender workers fell by nearly one-third following their gender transitions. Interestingly, that same study found that the earnings of male transgender workers slightly increased following their transition. As such, transgender men may actually experience a wage advantage rather than a wage penalty.

Come on man do you even read your sources any more? It helps when they aren't heavily biased .

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Abysha

They face discrimination when putting the clown suit on right? Otherwise no discrimination? If it is a medical issue or psychological there are protections for that. Americans with disabilities act etc. Whats funny is depending on the case people are trying to make they either have a "condition" or are "born that way". If its a condition why not treat it? Like other dysmorphic issues. We don't tell anorexics to lose weight because they see themselves as "fat" so why are we encouraging people to act out in a way that doesn't actually solve anything and induces unease in some people who are "normal" ( I say normal since the "condition" would be an abnormality).

Either way any perceived discrimination ( has yet to be proven and is very difficult to prove thoughts or intent) comes from their actions. Without those actions there is nothing to distinguish them from anyone else.

How is being born with something contradictory to a condition? You don't think people are born with conditions? The one in question begins prenatally.

And you questioning why they don't get treatment shows you have not taken a moment to read a single thing from WPATH (standards of care).

Transitioning IS the treatment and the ONLY cure. Do you think people do those because they enjoy the alienation, violence, and ignorance that they are subjected to?

a reply to: Abysha

See my point about other dysmophic disorders. Trans are the only ones who fly in the face of conventional treatment because of the political agenda/debate surrounding them.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

So because one study found that transgender men may not have an issue with this, that suddenly means that it isn't an issue?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

YOU posted it as proof. Don't try to back peddle now. The OP was proven to be misleading through the articles own sources. Now the proof of wage discrimination has proven to be sketchy through your own sources. People are discriminated against everyday for a number of reasons. The sources often cite how many of the trans being discriminated against are also minorities. Maybe the discrimination is because of race? I could stack the deck to prove it racially motivated. Doesn't make it true though.

Anyone that thinks transgender people aren't discriminated against and disenfranchised by society probably isn't being very honest with themselves. Equating transgender people with someone wearing a clown suit demonstrates a serious lack of understanding and compassion for your fellow human beings.

Does it matter if this a condition vs. "born this way"? It is a problem regardless of the etiology and not something someone would subject themselves to just for fun or casually.

All LGBT+ issues aside in terms of wage discrimination, in this patriarchal and often misogynistic society we live in is it any surprise that men typically make more than women?

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
See my point about other dysmophic disorders. Trans are the only ones who fly in the face of conventional treatment because of the political agenda/debate surrounding them.

In you view, what would "conventional treatment" be? The vast majority of transgender people do not seek or require any "treatment" at all. Their issues are sociological. For those that do seek/require medical intervention, diagnosis is well laid out in the DSM-5 and treatment in WPATH's SoC (Standards of Care). Gender Dysphoria is not Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD) although they may seem similar to the lay person or to someone not versed in these issues.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

No, in 29+ states we can be legally fired, denied services, jobs, housing, property. some states are still fighting for adoption rights, and now states are trying to vote on Laws that allow Legally Medical Services and health providers to deny services if it goes against their "Religious Morals"

Never once have we asked for "Special Rights", Sexual-Orientation and Gender-Identity are not on the Federal Class of protections

a reply to: Freija

Not accepting their behavior in no way means I am dehumanizing them or any such. The clown suit is just an analogy. Its the perception by a vast majority.

Lots of people are discriminated against every single day for a myriad of issues. I choose not to sit next to the guy talking to himself on the bus. That is a form of discrimination. No one is arguing that.

The thing is the discrimination is not institutionalized like discrimination against blacks and women.

a reply to: Darth_Prime

In many of those states ANYONE can be fired for any reason. Its called right to work. Should we be trying to have that overturned or just focus on the special interest group?

This is why this entire movement is misleading. You are throwing up only examples that illustrate your point without acknowledging that it is not solely a trans issue. Stick to unbiased facts instead of skewing things to help your chosen cause.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
The thing is the discrimination is not institutionalized like discrimination against blacks and women.

How would you describe "institutionalized discrimination" since discrimination on the basis of sex or race is prohibited by Title IV of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Sexual orientation and gender identity/expression are not.

I'm sure the transgender person being refused or fired from a job, denied housing or other accommodations or services solely for being different certainly feels like discrimination is widespread and "institutionalized".

a reply to: NihilistSanta

Well now that you found the evidence you were looking for to deny that transgender people suffer from discrimination. I'm glad you confirmed your biases. It must feel good.

Though I know that things aren't so simple. The data might not be as clear as I'd like it to be, but transgender discrimination exists, it NEEDS to be addressed, and the federal government needs to add them as a protected minority class.

Now I know why you don't want to agree with my conclusion. You likely disagree with the Civil Rights bill in general for Libertarian reasons. So naturally you'd view adding transgenders to the list as more government intrusion into your privacy. But the simple fact remains that it DOES exist and I bet as better numbers and data come along (because frankly that's the problem you have with my data, it's not thorough enough) it will continue to prove me right. It's not like people just naturally stop being intolerant because they want to or anything. It takes a desire to change, and most don't have it feeling comfortable with their biases.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

It is not Legal to fire someone just because of their Race, or Religion, it is because of your Sexuality...

When Same-Sex Marriage Became Legal, in 29+ states someone could get fired for having a picture of their Same-Sex spouse

i don't know if you don't understand, or are just purposely not understanding and trying to turn the conversation into "Special Treatment"

Can a Gay person get fired because they break the rules yes, can a straight person get fired because they break the rules, yes.

can a Gay person get fired because they are Gay, Yes, can a Straight person get fired because they are Straight, No

See?