Groups want students who say “All Lives Matter” punished and re-educated

originally posted by: DJMSN
Some of the "demands" are not out of line, however the way they are going about to achieve the end is just over the top. Sports athletes are going to school on scholarships, therefore if they do not play they should be sent packing without the option to return. The scholarships should go to students interested in an education.

You'd better hope that the majority of the football team are not minorities because if not... you WILL be "deemed" a racist. See how that works? Regardless of whether or not you have a point... rather than have a discussion, you will be "shamed" into submission.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Oh PLEASE put me in a room alone with these fools....


PLEASE

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Agreed. We should look at the facts before dismissing or agreeing with any cause.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It goes well beyond just deaths, Ott6. But if you look at the stats you just provided, the number of blacks killed by police is well over their population ratio. Should we also talk about incarceration rates?

I believe you are highlighting my point in that we are not willing to put these things in to proper perspective before we dismiss them.

And lets look at the crime stats ... are the number of crimes committed by blacks in proportion with their percentage of the population or is it out of proportion?

Because that number affects the number of interactions the black population will have with the LEOs.

saying "all lives matter" is like going into a breast cancer fundraiser and screaming "fighting all diseases matter, not JUST breast cancer"

hm is there not a tinge of negativity associated with such a statement?

This will go no where. They do not have a foot ball team that will lose them money if they don't play.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I am thinking you just want to argue for the sake of argument. Notice i used the word adopted...

Nice try I guess?

The thirteen states also adopted in 1776, alongside the nation, Bills of Right in

No part of this statement is true.

1. "alongside the nation" would imply federal law. We know this is wrong.

2. North Carolina did not have freedom of speech in their Declarations of Rights, neither did Delaware (though it did have freedom of the press). New Jersey skipped the whole Bill/Declaration of rights and the 1776 Constitution of New Jersey didn't have any articles protecting freedom of speech or the press, same with South Carolina and New Hampshire. Massachusetts didn't have a Declaration of Rights until 1780. New York and Georgia didn't have constitutions until 1777 and neither included freedom of speech protections, only freedom of press in Georgia's. Connecticut and Rhode Island were still operating under a ROYAL CHARTERS until 1818 and 1843 respectively. Afaik, in 1776 the only states with any protection of speech were Virginia (the first), Pennsylvania and Maryland.

So on, and so forth. Stop jumping to conclusions just for the sake of trying to make an argument and read what people actually write please. Thank you.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions. Stating that free speech originated in 1776 is ridiculous, ignores the actual history of free speech and the interpretation of the protections for in under the First Amendment. I don't know why you're making apologies for the ignorance of college students beyond maybe, "What do you expect from some dumb college students?"

My point stands, both "sides" in this conflict of would-be political radicals are obviously lacking.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
saying "all lives matter" is like going into a breast cancer fundraiser and screaming "fighting all diseases matter, not JUST breast cancer"

hm is there not a tinge of negativity associated with such a statement?

Actually, I would say it's more like some Breast Cancer folks barging into my fathers hospital room, as he recovers from gastro surgery which removed polyps, and asking him, "Do Breast Cancer Folks matter?!?!?".... and if he says, "Sure, but so does mine, right?".... and then getting accused of wishing Breast Cancer Folks death.

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Oh PLEASE put me in a room alone with these fools....


PLEASE

Why?

What will happen if he does?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: introvert

We should be able to be honest and acknowledge that many of those that yell "all lives matter" are simply sticking their heads in the sand so they do not have to deal with the issue of systemic racism.

Maybe people yell 'all lives matter' simply because they do.

Yes, they do. What you are not recognizing is that the BLM, when it was started, was a way of drawing attention to perceived injustices. Instead of acknowledging or discussing those potential injustices, many people took the lazy way out and said "all lives matter".

Look at what you did. You posted a statistic. I responded with a reasonable response that highlighted the difference between number of people killed by police compared to their population size. How did you respond?

"All lives matter".

What you and others are doing is fueling these people by being too lazy to engage in the debate. When you say "all live matter", what you are really saying to these people is "we don't give a #" about their cause.

That seems ignorant and disingenuous to me.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Agreed. We should look at the facts before dismissing or agreeing with any cause.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It goes well beyond just deaths, Ott6. But if you look at the stats you just provided, the number of blacks killed by police is well over their population ratio. Should we also talk about incarceration rates?

I believe you are highlighting my point in that we are not willing to put these things in to proper perspective before we dismiss them.

And lets look at the crime stats ... are the number of crimes committed by blacks in proportion with their percentage of the population or is it out of proportion?

Because that number affects the number of interactions the black population will have with the LEOs.

Agreed, but what we are not willing to discuss in that debate is does systemic racism play a part in the higher levels of crime rates in the black community.

Many people forget about that.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: introvert

We should be able to be honest and acknowledge that many of those that yell "all lives matter" are simply sticking their heads in the sand so they do not have to deal with the issue of systemic racism.

In order to be honest and acknowledge it, you may have to prove it first.

There is doubt in your mind that systemic racism exists in the United States of America? Being a white male of all of 5.5 decades, I have witnessed it first hand when out with a black friend.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Agreed. We should look at the facts before dismissing or agreeing with any cause.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It goes well beyond just deaths, Ott6. But if you look at the stats you just provided, the number of blacks killed by police is well over their population ratio. Should we also talk about incarceration rates?

I believe you are highlighting my point in that we are not willing to put these things in to proper perspective before we dismiss them.

And lets look at the crime stats ... are the number of crimes committed by blacks in proportion with their percentage of the population or is it out of proportion?

Because that number affects the number of interactions the black population will have with the LEOs.

does systemic racism play a part in the higher levels of crime rates in the black community.

.

Does it? I'm personally willing to have that conversation, but I would suggest that you be willing to answer that question as well (and explain exactly how). If you are making the charge, you should be able to clearly show how "systemic" racism is in full effect and how people of _______ race/religion have no choice but to commit crimes.

(I say that not to antagonize you.... I say that because although I am relatively new to the site, and you and I never agree, for whatever reason I enjoy discussing/debating things with you).

a reply to: eluryh22

but is your father protesting openly about his condition and still not being heard? i doubt it.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: introvert
Fair enough, but did the people that clinged-on to the ALM bandwagon take the time to look in to police brutality and the statistics before they denounced BLM?

Did the BlackLivesMatter bandwagon riders take that time?
libertynews.com...

In 2012, according to the CDC, 140 blacks were killed by police. That same year 386 whites were killed by police. Over the 13-year period from 1999 to 2011, the CDC reports that 2,151 whites were killed by cops — and 1,130 blacks were killed by cops

If they did, they sure don't indicate it based on them focusing on the plight of the group with nearly half the police-caused deaths...

except for the fact that blacks only make up about 15% of our population.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

Sunshine and roses my friend.


Sunshine and roses

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
saying "all lives matter" is like going into a breast cancer fundraiser and screaming "fighting all diseases matter, not JUST breast cancer"

hm is there not a tinge of negativity associated with such a statement?

No.

originally posted by: eluryh22

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Agreed. We should look at the facts before dismissing or agreeing with any cause.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

It goes well beyond just deaths, Ott6. But if you look at the stats you just provided, the number of blacks killed by police is well over their population ratio. Should we also talk about incarceration rates?

I believe you are highlighting my point in that we are not willing to put these things in to proper perspective before we dismiss them.

And lets look at the crime stats ... are the number of crimes committed by blacks in proportion with their percentage of the population or is it out of proportion?

Because that number affects the number of interactions the black population will have with the LEOs.

does systemic racism play a part in the higher levels of crime rates in the black community.

.

Does it? I'm personally willing to have that conversation, but I would suggest that you be willing to answer that question as well (and explain exactly how). If you are making the charge, you should be able to clearly show how "systemic" racism is in full effect and how people of _______ race/religion have no choice but to commit crimes.

(I say that not to antagonize you.... I say that because although I am relatively new to the site, and you and I never agree, for whatever reason I enjoy discussing/debating things with you).

The answer, as it pertains to this particular subject, is not what is important. What's important is that we engage in the discussion with these BLM people, without any particular bias from the outset. I believe that is what they want the most. Just to be heard and to be taken seriously enough to spark an investigation/discussion.

I don't have all of the statistics on-hand to prove to everyone that systemic racism is as big a problem as is indicated, but I am willing to be part of the debate without complete dismissal.

originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
a reply to: eluryh22

but is your father protesting openly about his condition and still not being heard? i doubt it.

You invented the scenario. Then invented another one based on my response. What exactly are you saying?

All you did (unless I'm wrong) is say that Black Lives Matter is right and All Lives Matter is wrong. I only saw that one initial post from you on this thread (the one I replied to). If I missed one, please point me to it and I will address it.

the fact of the matter is that all lives matters equates to a MAJORITY group discrediting the significance of a MINORITY groups concerns for themselves. its quite blatant if you ask me.