The Obvious Strategy of The Islamic State Is Working, You’re All Being Stupid

a reply to: Rosinitiate

For starters, if a Muslim comes and blows himself up, he's not a Syrian Christian.

What a coincidence that after these attacks in Paris the french government and other EU governments are running quick in wanting to take away citizens' freedoms in the name of security. I say they are looking for special powers to be able to force through the TTIP and other garbage against the citizens.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord
A very worthy thread Skeptic Overlord.
Thank you.

Those who tar all muslims with the terrorist brush are the weak minded who are unknowingly being brainwashed by the agenda of the machine IMHO.

The machine is massive and sophisticated,and is all pervasive-it is funded by big media,mega corporations and states/governments who have more influence than any humble individual or website..
Some call it the system,I call it the machine.

This machine attempts to influence whole continents of people,and push certain agendas to alter the very future of our species.
I for one,do not buy such BUllCRAP-if everyone of us did,we would be looking at the very worst version of a sci fi dystopia for our future generations.
Does anyone really want that?
NOT ME.

The last few days has been a real eye opener for me-It has shown me just how easy it is for some people to be brainwashed by the machine.

Just my two cents,and I am not a liberal or a muslim BTW.
I am someone who wishes to learn from evidence rather than accept the brainwashing of the machine.

Some people on ATS should be ashamed of themselves latley.
But at least we have seen who are the weak minded.

Think for yourselves people,and screw the machine!!!

WARNING HUMANS YOU ARE BEING TARGETED BY THE MACHINE

Don't fall for it..
Use your own brain to think for yourself for crying out loud!!

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: sosobad

Well, what about the parts where the ME clearly has problems with its treatment of women, children and gays?

Part of it is Arab culture, but part of it is also religious.

You can find the treatment overlap in the religious minorities of the ME and you can see it spill over into the religious/cultural communities that have transplanted to other nation. I don't know which portion takes bigger blame - Arab culture or religion.

What part of your post addresses what I am saying? You want to say something about the Muslim population as a whole instead of the bigotry I have witnessed and will probably continue to witness unless it is stopped. Stop using a big ass brush to paint one portion of society, you are not helping the human race.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
Old Testament dude.

Yes it is. But it's still the Bible... correct?

The point being, the scriptures of all three Abrahamic religions tell the devout to go out and kill the non-devout. But not everyone's doing it.

a reply to: IlTuoFratello

P.s. This really is totally an attempt to censor, oppress and remove freedom of expression and freedom of speech for individuals feeling those sentiments, and not only that it by default labels them "stupid" for doing so.

Censorship? How so?

Do you think it's 'stupid' to call all Americans racists because the KKK are active there?

It's about stereotyping! KKK are Americans and they're racist so that means all Americans are racists right? Bad logic.

Islamic State are Muslims and they're sick bastards so that means all Muslims are sick bastards right? Bad logic.

ATS isn't trying to censor or suppress opinions. It's saying it's cool to condemn Islamic State, KKK or any extremists on the planet without exhorting genocide, death camps or nuking populations.

Thank you I needed to read this. I don't post very often at ATS either. I'm going to look more into this Daesh mob and get a better understanding of who the real enemy is.

This has probably been mentioned already...but isn't is very interesting that these attacks happened in Paris last Friday night and then immediately France respond with 20 bombs at an IS stronghold and 150+ raids throughout France. It does seem like they let this event happen to justify the bombings. Something stinks about it all. A gut feeling that we are never told the true story and will probably never find out.

Anyway, all we can do is go about life being the best persons we can be and accept each other for who we are. That is how I go about my day. Peace

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

There intent is not to make you hate islam. Their intent is to let you know that they can get to you no matter where you are. And in doing so can destroy your way of life. What plays in to their hands is not being prepared to take the fight to them meaning their way of life us unchanged. And I also feel the west can't ignore the fact that Islamic terrorists are in fact born out of Islam granted may or may not be a misinterpretation depending on one's belief. But none the less it is a contributing factor. And to ignore that plays into their hands as well. It takes several things to make a terrorist but one thing they all have in common is a strong belief. Either in a religion or some injustice making the rest of society the enemy and their group the protectors.

We don't help the situation by invading whole countries--as we did in Iraq--and then breaking up their militaries and not doing it productively, thus potentially creating more problems--like fueling ISIS. In the past several years some or maybe even most of ISIS high ranking leadership were former Iraqi military inteligence or otherwise. This explains much of hte precision and organization in their operations. Additionally, ISIS members were primarily living in Syria and IRAQ. This means Operationg Iraqi Freedom in 2003 had a direct consequence of making ISIS what it's today.

I can't say 100% it was bad to make the move to start the war in Iraq in 2003. I'm not that confident about what I know. And yet if you had asked me in 2003 if I supported it I'd say NO. HELL NO. What do I say now? I don't know. It's easy to be wrong. The older I get, the more I learn to speak slower and cautiously. I also know the support for the war was across party lines. Many people remember it as being just Bush and his friends, but based on what I've seen it wasn't. In a previous post I showed youtube videos of Al Gore and Hillary Clinton talking up the threat posed by Saddam. In Hillary's case she voted in favor of the war. There were others too.

Here's the resolution. It shows there were a considerable number of democrats who supported it and thus the war:
en.wikipedia.org - Iraq Resolution...

I also remember quite clearly people supporting the war because of fear. Fear of 9/11. And wanting to be strong and make a stand.

www.theguardian.com - Syrian president Assad poses bigger threat than Isis, warns thinktank...
www.pbs.org - How Saddam’s Former Soldiers Are Fueling the Rise of ISIS...
time.com - How Disbanding the Iraqi Army Fueled ISIS...

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I am not going to lie, at the start of all of this ISIS/ISIL crap, i viewed Muslims very different than I do now. I seem them for what they are (both ISIS and the actual sane Muslim people). ISIS are savage murderers who want nothing more than to change every person to their own beliefs and destroy the west. Where actual non radical Muslims want a safe place to live away from the constant fear and war that has been going on for a very long time. A safe haven for their families, a new life, a place to make money and live life.

However how long can we all actually be safe? This sort of thing will never end. People will continually keep killing other people. We have it happen all the time. Look at people who shoot up schools they, in my eyes, are terrorists just the same.

S&F SkepticOverlord.

-SAP-

I love that no matter which way you shake it, it's still just a swim in # infested propaganda currents.

Here we are now, and it seems the BEST we can hope for is how best to "protect" ourselves from these evil Muslim Terrorists.

Never one, do we as a western world just stop for one #ing second and ask ourselves "Besides the stated goals of ISIS, that we are told is all they want.....a caliphate and turn all us infidels into ash or converts.

Dollars to donuts, it's the mass murdering of their people trumping their motivation, not their freaking religion. And it wouldn't take me very #ing long to be convinced Jesus says it's ok to kill Muslims if they just droned striked my baby.

As usual, any real rational discussion is taboo. Certainly we white righteous people could never deserve this....

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Incorrect. To my knowledge (I don't know as much as I should about Islam), non of the three tell their followers to kill all nonbelievers. I'm certain Christianity does not. While genocide was called for in specific parts of the old testament, generally murder was not allowed regardless of the victim's religion.

These latest attacks and threats by ISIS has got a lot of people upset and afraid. Most people know better than to collectively paint Islam and Muslims as terrorists and jihadists. But I do understand why people do that. It's a classic case of "people are afraid of what they don't know."

Look at it this way.

Your an ordinary hard working guy coming home from work to your family and everyday what you hear on the evening news is how radical Muslims or jihadists or whatever name CNN coined them that evening, attack a place or person while shouting "Allahu Akbar!" And you hear and see this news over and over and over and over again...since Desert Storm through post 911 and Iraq and Afghanistan wars...then NOW...Paris, Beirut, Syria, Libya...from Khomeini to Al Quaeda to ISIS...

I mean, those years of news sticking it to your head, hearing and seeing MUSLIMS and KILLING in one sentence...in one picture...in one video...that's kind of a brainwash if you ask me. It also doesn't help if politicians and opinion groups add their ill informed and emotional fuel to the mix.

I don't blame the religious intolerance of people during these times. It is a normal reaction. To protect oneself and others from something they perceive as a threat. Be it their Muslim officemate...whatever. And no one can take that away from them. It's a natural feeling, however misinformed they are...a knee jerk reaction.

But what we as the "informed" can do is to educate our fellow countrymen. It's the most constructive thing we could ever do. It's how we should fight, in our own small way, this menace called ISIS. Through information and education. Do not sow hate but understanding.

I mean, a lot of guys here are creative and technically savvy...if we really do care and want to do something constructive other than being armchair critics...

ENLIGHTENING VIRAL CAMPAIGN AGAINST ISIS

I saw this viral campaign and was really inspired by it.

It's just an idea. Rather than pounding keys in here...why not get out of our comfort zone and do something really meaningful.

DENY IGNORANCE.

originally posted by: Flanker86
What a coincidence that after these attacks in Paris the french government and other EU governments are running quick in wanting to take away citizens' freedoms in the name of security. I say they are looking for special powers to be able to force through the TTIP and other garbage against the citizens.

This is another reason why it pays to be moderate and watchful in how the media portrays conflict. As fast as people are calling for the bombing of the ME, our own governments are taking advantage and pushing through legislation that reduces civil liberties.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
I love that no matter which way you shake it, it's still just a swim in # infested propaganda currents.

Here we are now, and it seems the BEST we can hope for is how best to "protect" ourselves from these evil Muslim Terrorists.

Which ones? ISIS? Al Qauda? What's the next one going to be called? We're being sold a bag of goods.

As usual, any real rational discussion is taboo. Certainly we white righteous people could never deserve this....

No it's not. Just discuss it within the T&C. Which is what everyone agrees to when posting here anyway.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: Thill

Have you read the OP? I mean read rather than skimmed for splinters?

Let's not condemn a whole group for the outrages of a few. That's about the sum of it.

IS and the assholes who attacked Paris deserve condemnation. They obviously do.

Does a middle-class Muslim family in suburbia deserve to be condemned because of what the Paris attackers did? Are we allowed to generalise across millions of people because of the acts of a minority of bastards? Assuming you're an intelligent rational person, your answer will be no.

Is that correct?

If it is, you are in agreement with the OP.

Of course I have read the whole OP, even twice or 3 times. And if you read my post You would see that line of me stating that some of us know exactly what ISIS plan is and we are happy to oblige. Maybe I was not clear enough so let me try and be more precise. What I meant was, that yes we should be much more suspicious of the whole group because of the action of those radicals. As should we be suspicious of followers of any other group/religion/nationality that is openly hostile against the rest of the world because of ideological reasons.

That does not mean that we should kill everybody of those groups on sight, but it does mean that we cannot give them the benefit of the doubt that they are peaceful Why You might ask ? Because we tried that already, this is the experiment with multiculturalism that has been going on for years, and it looks like it is failing. Like I said again, please show me a different radical religion that has done half of the damage that this one has in recent history ?

If religious leaders openly tell their followers to blend in and perform terror attacks against infidels we have to see it for what it is. Look at the dilemma from their point of view. Either You follow religious leaders and by association the holly scriptures (which most of them cant even read, so they know them from those leaders interpretation), or You do not which makes You an infield that will go to hell. Now being a follower that wholly believes in above mentioned leaders and scriptures, what do You do?

Now the question is, who is a follower of the "radical version" of this religion and who is not ? Look at Paris, it turns out at least one of the terrorists was a French national. So here is the dilemma, how do we separate the good from the bad ? Well for starters we need to find a way to watch or check if those living among us are the peaceful kind or the radicalized ones. More ideas ? I do not know, if You have any bright ones I would be more than happy to read.

I tell You one way, how we do not do it for sure. We do not accept hundreds of thousands of possible terrorists (of course its not all terrorists, and not even the majority, but we just do not know who is at this point in time) without some kind of tight screening on the borders. If we really want to be the helpful kind immediately, we help them at their place of origin, we pour money there and help make that a safer place. But see that's the problem, those people do not want to be helped there, and they do not want us there because we contaminate their way of life. See the irony ? So what do we do ?

The question about the family is a trick one, because it depends what You mean by the world condemn ? Of course they should not be killed/banned/harassed but they should be watched.

So again like I said in my original post, I get it that we want to be civilized and politically correct, and helpful and so 21th century advanced humans, but in order for that to work, all parties need to be at the same mental level, which at current time is not the case, so unless we help make real change at their place of origin, this current approach will not work. It will end in more deaths and more bombs and more mass shootings and more general doom and gloom.

Please answer me those two question if you would be so kind : You really do not see the glaring problem that has become radical Islam terrorism ? You do not see the glaring problem with accepting thousands of people from countries whose a significant amount of residents declared open war against the "west" and performed successfully mass death terror attacks ?

The real rub: if we should accept that all Muslims are terorists, then we will also be made to accept that all white males are terrorists, too. It isn't 20 year old females shooting up theaters and schools...its teen white males.

While I am no fan of the slippery slope argument....I certainly can see the importance of preserving individual liberty (and individual value based on individual merit) across the world.

I believe an Orwell quote would be appropriate in this thread:

“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac. In our time political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought. All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. Political language...is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidarity to pure wind. War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it. Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. (On the manipulation of language for political ends.) We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence.”
― George Orwell

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree 100%. They are terrorists just the same as any Muslims, Christian ect. Murder is murder. In the case of senseless killings it can never be justified.

-SAP-

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
I love that no matter which way you shake it, it's still just a swim in # infested propaganda currents.

Here we are now, and it seems the BEST we can hope for is how best to "protect" ourselves from these evil Muslim Terrorists.

Which ones? ISIS? Al Qauda? What's the next one going to be called? We're being sold a bag of goods.

As usual, any real rational discussion is taboo. Certainly we white righteous people could never deserve this....

No it's not. Just discuss it within the T&C. Which is what everyone agrees to when posting here anyway.

That's not really the point. The point is that any sane and rational person can really hope to achieve is to calm hysteria and let our governments do what they do best. Buy more hammers.

Solves nothing. The world is full of so much hate and people can't even bother to stop and see who really gains from such knee jerk reactions. That's your real bogey man. As I said before, I agree with the OP and sadly people can't even see even after seeing the obvious arguments. It's pathetic and it is a stain on mankind.