The Obvious Strategy of The Islamic State Is Working, You’re All Being Stupid

originally posted by: templar knight
As this is precisely about ISIS/ISIL and nothing else, I don't know why we don't call this group a "CULT".

Definition of a CULT: A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.

Cults can be from any religion so I don't see why Moslems shouldn't have cults alongside other groups.
This, IMHO, seems the most accurate definition.

Seems accurate. I think I referred to them in another thread as a "gang" with "turf", as opposed to a "state" with "territory". I see them the same way I do the Mexican cartels that killed more than 60,000 people in the recent drug wars there. They were even beheading people & doing all kinds of gruesome stuff, too. It's amazing how quickly people forgot about that, even though it was literally just south of the US border.

originally posted by: AnonymousMoose
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Seems a bit harsh to call people stupid for hating Islam, they not only have the right to hate Islam, but throughout history Islam has been "weaponized" as you later said, providing more and more fuel for this fear. I think you're giving ISIS too much credit, almost implying that they created this fear and hatred. The fear and hatred has always been there, ISIS has just figured out how to use it against us and change it from a source of passion and motivation and turn it into our greatest weakness.

When you hate a "thing" because of the actions of people....that is pretty silly. It reduces accountability on people for their actions (listening to Ozzy backwards while playing GTA IV isn't going to make someone a murderer, for example).

Religion is a thing. Its the individuals that matter. Or, put another way, Islam didn't kill anyone. People who happen to be Muslim did.

Lord knows humanity has no shortage of assholes. Its the assholes that are to blame, not the various things that they may associate with.

Q: Why do you think this change occurred?

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: aorAki
Why do you think this change occurred?

Fear is the mind-killer.

That, and an epic ton of propaganda out in the wild.

An overwhelming epic ton of propaganda, spilling into ATS.

Thanks for the thread. F&S&

Mankind
destined in his own time
to suffer More cruelty then ever before
Ends
By being paralyzed by fear
Become introspective
Shaken to the very core
Thus worlds die
First and foremost
The flesh dies
But few
Very few
Clearly Recognize
That for the flesh to die
The spirit would have been killed off
Already

Soon the spirit of man will die
And then the flesh of man will follow.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Thill

You are aware that the US is currently engaged in military actions in seven different primarily Muslim nations currently? Right?

If you want proof of us bombing them, just turn on a TV.

You are aware that I specifically said that my post concerned religious warfare and not resource based warfare which is a completely different topic? Of course I am aware that the USA is bombing different nations, some of them in the name of "Democracy", but this is conventional warfare. I am not aware of any of the join chiefs of the USA or any other western civilization going on TV or on the net asking for civilian suicide bombings, or cities water poisoning, or random civilian mass shootings. Would you be so kind and please direct me to the links showing that ? I would be most fascinated to watch those, and change my opinion on that part.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Is it?

Look discussion of "War" is the sort of topic that comes up in a site like this, is actually discussing the realities of what goes on during a war a violation of free speech?

I don't think so, I don't think the discussion can even be had without dealing with these realities, the very word "WAR" actually implies all of the said topics like it or not.

I think it is kind of ridiculous while Isis is beheading people, people are being raped the Nation of France is perhaps going to ask Nato to go to war to not discuss the realities of what it is, It means "people all over Syria having themselves torn to shreds by bombs" which is far worse per say than an internment camp which in the end is just "Jail"

You shouldn't allow the topic of "war" period if you are just going to shut people down who discuss it.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

This is very, very astute.

It is somewhat similar: "The West" (in the case of Mexico, it was the US only) destablized the territory through its own operations, creating a bloodbath among the people, and a massive flight of citizens trying to find safety. And, to be honest, I am accustomed to US xenophobia as it relates to Mexico. Its nothing new....and i live in a part of the world that I have to hear it all the damned time.

But I have kind of been shocked (and disgusted) by the similarity of xenophobia being shown among Europeans.

great OP

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Old Testament dude.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Old Testament dude.

Which still doesn't stop Christians from using it to castigate gays. Funny how that works, huh?

a reply to: templar knight

As this is precisely about ISIS/ISIL and nothing else, I don't know why we don't call this group a "CULT".

I agree with you. They're an outlier, a fringe organisation who get enough media oxygen to burn brightly.

In reality, they're an extremist 'cult' whose intention is to bring on the 'end-times' and see the world's population die in a blood bath.

At the same time, they're like putty for propaganda. Mould them into anything.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: sosobad

I don't know a staffer who supports anti-Muslim rhetoric and hatred.

There's a spectrum of opinion that allows for views that fall within the T&Cs. Every day I read posts that piss me off or offend me and it's fine; we all do, don't we?

As staff, we have to set aside our personal opinions and only action posts that breach the T&Cs. At least, we try to as members and fallible humans.

There is a level of hatred tolerated againt Muslims on this forum that whether you may see it or not. The talk of Muslim being animals or the talk of all Muslims being terrorists. For the record I do not believe in organised religion but I can see hate when it rears its ugly head. I am not saying every mod here tolerates the behaviour but some members have free reign to spill their bigotry no matter what.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Old Testament dude.

Which still doesn't stop Christians from using it to castigate gays. Funny how that works, huh?

Except I find a lot of the anti-gay OT references coming from leftists as an attack against Christians as often as I ever find Christians using it. Most Christians who do will also cite Paul from the NT.

I think I understand what you are saying, but I do believe that if you took a bit more time, you could word it a lot better.

These terrorists are indeed religious and Islamic in their nature. I do not believe it is true to resort to calling people stupid who are suffering from hysteria and/or fear. I think it is only a natural response for the fight or flight mechanism to begin coming into play for self preservation. If the attackers are and have been of the Islamic faith, whether radical or not, it is only rational that normal people will be more suspicious of Muslims that they do not know, and of potential immigrants from those regions (especially since one of the Paris terror suspects was exactly that).

Yes, this terrorism is cultivated and culminated from taking the Islamic faith from the Quran and using a direct interpretation of certain verses.

Yes, these terrorists are Muslims and/or being motivated by the Islamic faith and the Caliphate movement.

No, not all Muslims are terrorists.

But there is a reality that exists, a future that is unknown, and some of us grapple with how to keep it safe and secure. Some express it in more extreme ways than others.

The Islamic State, Al Quadea and other well known Islamic extremist groups, call for the destruction and/or oppression, no exceptions, of all things that are not Islam.

I am not defending the anti-Islamic extremists, but I believe it is only a natural reaction to then begin having the opposite side of that spectrum develop - anti-Islamic extremists. I am not stating that I am supporting at this moment, nor that I am condoning either side, I am just observing and stating what I believe to be what is a natural and unstoppable phenomena that will come of this if the problem is not solved, and that is already manifesting, and has eventuated in the past.

Logic? Some Muslims are terrorists. Not all Muslims are terrorists. Islam can foster terrorism, but not in all people. Terrorism begets terrorism, and extremism creates extremism.

P.s. This really is totally an attempt to censor, oppress and remove freedom of expression and freedom of speech for individuals feeling those sentiments, and not only that it by default labels them "stupid" for doing so.

Take care, S.O.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

There intent is not to make you hate islam. Their intent is to let you know that they can get to you no matter where you are. And in doing so can destroy your way of life. What plays in to their hands is not being prepared to take the fight to them meaning their way of life us unchanged. And I also feel the west can't ignore the fact that Islamic terrorists are in fact born out of Islam granted may or may not be a misinterpretation depending on one's belief. But none the less it is a contributing factor. And to ignore that plays into their hands as well. It takes several things to make a terrorist but one thing they all have in common is a strong belief. Either in a religion or some injustice making the rest of society the enemy and their group the protectors.

And Islamic terrorist is born from Islam,...well how's that for circular logic?

Here's a question, say a Muslim comes to Europe and blows himself up but not because of his religion but because his brother was drone striked. Is he just a terrorist or and Islamic Terrorist? What if he were a Syrian Christian?

a reply to: criticalhit

I've read your posts before and agree with some and disagree with others. In other words, neutral. In this case, your point isn't exactly clear. Can you elaborate or simplify it?

The OP is seeking to differentiate between condemning IS and generalising their crimes across every Muslim in the world.

a reply to: sosobad

Well, what about the parts where the ME clearly has problems with its treatment of women, children and gays?

Part of it is Arab culture, but part of it is also religious.

You can find the treatment overlap in the religious minorities of the ME and you can see it spill over into the religious/cultural communities that have transplanted to other nation. I don't know which portion takes bigger blame - Arab culture or religion.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
What more can be said ?

All I can do is give you this:

I also applaud this thread.

Thanks for the sane and refreshing Op.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I wish people could be as informed or as ignorant as they choose. And say whatever they want and be whoever they want. That's the true thing these terrorists are afraid of. If it's racism you choose then ok. I don't expect a person would make friends that way, but they'd adapt or die. If ATS chooses to remove posts then it's just another form of 1984 as some would put it. I don't think people should be shielded from hate. Hate exists and always will so what's the point of creating a bubble of tolerance when it prevents one from learning about why people have hatred inside of them?


And it's *your.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
Seriously? Maybe I'm reading a different Bible, but I don't see where it says for Christians who follow Christ to go out an murder people if they don't believe. The part I read says to shake the dust from your feet and move on.

In Deuteronomy, you shall be killed if you worship the wrong God. Specifically chapter 17: where God orders the killing of everyone who doesn't believe in him, or even listen to his priests.

In Samuel, God orders the killing of all Amalekites and their livestock.

There's lots of it, as I said.

That's Old Testament stuff.

Christians are under a different covenant and different law: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength and love others as yourself. The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments".