God loves you, and I believe some of you may have experienced him in your life without knowing it.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Akragon

As I said I think Christians have made the mistake of allowing the message of the Bible to fall behind a religion(as defined in op). Rather than expressing that God wants a relationship with you. You may not call it home, but he will always welcome you with open arms should you change your mind.

Good answer.

Regards less of human religions told as objective spiritual truths:

I also think it depends on what effort a soul put's in if the divine will answer and on what level the answer will be. It is about symbiosis and what level of symbiosis you can achieve. The higher awareness the higher level of understanding. The more you question the more answers you can get from the source of ultimate spiritual truth, that is what it is regardless of what subjective view/shape/idol humanity create to represent the divine.

Karma/spiritual evolution is part of the formula also but those who seek help/guidance to evolve will receive if that is what they are truly after.

I would like to know the objective truth of Yeshua, Nanak, Siddhārtha Gautama and Rumi:
What was their energy flow like? What could they do to quantum reality field? How much did they understand logically/scientifically on what they did? How many souls was sent to support them to create those moments in history and change/evolve humanity?

a reply to: Akragon

I've learned from experience that pain and suffering forces you to choose between spiritual growth or degeneracy. Not even the Son of God was exempt from pain.

You choose whether or not you go to Hell, and how long you stay there. The Bible doesn't say there is a deadline to salvation, but it also doesn't say that anyone will choose to believe after death.

So the question is, what do you love more? Your works or Christ? Its that simple.

Jesus did preach Hell in Matt 25.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The world sucks. Get over it. It sucked yesterday, it sucks today, and guess what? Its gonna be worse tomorrow.

If you want to see the Kingdom of Heaven, let go of your works and believe in the works of Christ on the cross: that He died for our sins

a reply to: somnum

Well put . I think that doctrine is a deviation from the golden rule creating duality grouping attacking each other with "religious justification" based on their "religious garment". It is an insane doctrine in whatever religions it shows itself be it Judaism, Christianity (Yeshua:s message changed by Paul), Islam. The same insanity that pop up in political doctrines like for instance Nazism.

The curse that have plagued humanity in different forms for thousands of years.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

So the question is, what do you love more? Your works or Christ? Its that simple.

Christ... Because he showed me and YOU that works are important if you actually believe

You should know this, Faith without works is not faith at all...

faith alone is dead

The world sucks. Get over it. It sucked yesterday, it sucks today, and guess what? Its gonna be worse tomorrow.

So again... eternal burning is the solution?

If you want to see the Kingdom of Heaven, let go of your works and believe in the works of Christ on the cross.

tell that to the people I work with brother...

Jesus did preach Hell.

Perhaps... but its not what you think it is... burning and eternal fire are symbolic

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

What about his actions in the Old Testament? You know the ones I refer to by now, I assume. Don't you think a loving being could have dealt with those situations in a lot more loving manner?

I suppose if he could have he would have?

The almighty couldn't?

Does he warn people first? Doesn't Abraham intercede for Sodom, and the Abraham continues to question the lord about what he would do if one righteous person was among them. The lord keeps going lower and lower saying if 40 righteous are there I wouldn't destroy it. Then 30. Then 20.

this is not love, this sound like a market deal., we are talking about his own children here
Would you kill your child if he sinned?
True love is to forgive his children and show them the way, not destroying them.
After all he is omnipotent... he could just clap his fingers and say ''let them all be righteous'' End of the Issue


Instead he killed them because he loved them
If that is the love of Jesus and god about thanks, but no thanx.
Humans know much better than god what love truly is.

HE is nothing but a deceiver, arrogant and pure evil.

Love is not something you can force on people. It is a relationship people have to willingly enter and work at. Also that would affect free will which imo wouldn't be loving either.

Promises Heaven threatens with hell ans eternal torture, kills the sinners, kills the unbelievers, kills newborn babes,
and yet somehow he isn't forcing you to ''love'' him...

Strange thing that his love was forced upon millions for 2000 years with the destruction of the pagan world, the inquisition, the crusades, and the suppression of the dark ages and yet he didn't give a damn about our free will.

Why didn't he stop his followers for doing such terrible things?
Sexual sinful acts of Sodomites were more important to him.?
And what about the free will of the people at Sodom and Gomorrah?
killing them for what they did isn't against their free will?

Free will simply can't exist in such a dogma, because everything is already known so we cannot change our (already known to god) will.

For example, you don't seem to want to live with the God of the Bible so if he loves you why would he force you into his presence forever?

That's right if you don't want to live with the God, he forces you to eternal torture and punishment.
That's the nicest think he can do, because he loves you.

You know you are not making much sense about this love of God thing!

originally posted by: Akragon
Faith without works is not faith at all...

a reply to: Akragon

Perhaps... but its not what you think it is... burning and eternal fire are symbolic

That quite the gamble there buddy.

There is nothing in this world more useless than human works. Look around you. You are living in the works of our hands.

Works of faith are valued by God, but they have do be done through the Son. Before you abide in Christ, you must be reborn. You must believe that He payed for our sins.

tell that to the people I work with brother...

I'm telling you.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

LMAO!!

I usually hate it when people put videos in these threads... clogs up the screen load

that was good though

Thanks

originally posted by: Akragon
I usually hate it when people put videos in these threads... clogs up the screen load

You know, so do I. Yet I do it from time to time anyway..

that was good though

Thanks

No problem. It's a good song. Was one of my favorites back in the day haha.



Edit:
It's a YouTube video, so naturally it's the final proof that faith without works is dead!

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That quite the gamble there buddy.

not really... Though faith alone certainly is

There is nothing in this world more useless than human works. Look around you. You are living in the works of our hands.

Perhaps you don't know the meaning of "works"

Its not lego man...

You must believe that He payed for our sins.

And... who said that again?

I'm telling you.

You've told me before...

Again, tell those that help others every day of their lives to "let go of your works"

You're giving people the key to the gates of your Hell... Thank God that isn't how it works

a reply to: Akragon

Again I am well aware of the bible's claims... One thing Jesus did not say ironically is that all scripture is from God

Matthew 5:18
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Matthew 22
29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Luke 16
The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Sure he doesn't say it verbatim, but its implied constantly thru the context constantly. Then he gives authority to the prophets who speak of Scripture being the word of God a lot as well so as a whole the Bible definitely teaches that Scripture is theopneustos.

And IF it was all from God, he wouldn't disagree with any of it... yet he did

What exactly did he disagree with?

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Seems like your missing part of the message maybe?

That's because it doesn't actually interpret itself... that is a lie that has taken 1800 years for the church to figure out...

I don't really think its fair to just throw that out there like that. Like sure you think it doesn't, but I feel that it does so perfectly. Sure one of us has to be wrong but just making that claim doesn't really get us anywhere.

So i'll restate my previous reply...what makes you think I haven't?

Is it because I will not claim to be a Christian?

Perhaps because I don't believe in the silly dogma of Christianity?

Sure everyone is sinful... no doubt... but do you believe accepting what Paul told you gives you the golden ticket into Christian heaven? Just belief... nothing else as Paul said

I don't think of it as a golden ticket into heaven. Its an expression of love from an understanding lord. So do you ignore everything but what is considered quotes or parables from Jesus or just Paul what parts are actually inspired in your opinion if any??

yeah... that's Paul...

Christ said its up to you to clean the inside...

Not really I can pull that from old testament writings. From the typification of the Passover. I really try my hardest to look at the bible as a whole. So I would say my view is my attempt at viewing it as one source so my reasoning comes from the whole of Scripture not just Paul.

a reply to: Akragon
I'm just speechless this time. You really can't see what's in front of you, can you?
You don't have to answer that. Just maybe think about it or something, when you're out one-uping your buddies with your good deeds.

a reply to: Akragon

Hell wasn't the mercy part. Mercy comes from love and grace. Hell comes from love and justice. The hard part people have with this is they don't think about the nature of God . Evil or sin doesn't look the same thru his eyes.And Justice is something he must carry out as required by his nature. Yet so is Mercy. Jesus is the way out of that pickle. Those who are cleansed by him receive mercy and those who chose not to enter a relationship with him receive justice.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I don't think it's about one upping anyone. It's about walking the walk, and not talking the talk. That's the way I always viewed it anyway. Whichever side is right in terms of requirements or lack-of to get into Heaven.. whether you believe faith is enough, or faith with action.. Doesn't faith with action just seem more logical anyway? Should it really be about doctrine? Should you not want to strive to be like Jesus, in faith and action, regardless of what will get you into Heaven?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon
I'm just speechless this time. You really can't see what's in front of you, can you?

This is how many of us atheists and agnostics feel sometimes.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Matthew 5:18
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

what law was he talking about?

there was 613... some were abolished... so it couldn't have been those...

hmmmm....

What exactly did he disagree with?

Violence as a solution?

sure he kicked some ass in the temple... but he didn't up and kill anyone, nor did he tell people to...

Silly dietary laws?

There's a bunch of things...

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Seems like your missing part of the message maybe?

please read the above...

what law was he actually referring to which wasn't actually broken, and survives to this day?

So do you ignore everything but what is considered quotes or parables from Jesus or just Paul what parts are actually inspired in your opinion if any??

No... I consider the OT a story from people that didn't know any better... and pretty much showed that

Jesus had a message...

Paul changed it... admittedly some of his writing is good... but I think he had his own agenda

thus I don't trust most of what he said... and I believe John called him out for said agenda in his writing

Not really I can pull that from old testament writings. From the typification of the Passover. I really try my hardest to look at the bible as a whole. So I would say my view is my attempt at viewing it as one source so my reasoning comes from the whole of Scripture not just Paul.

So Jesus didn't actually say this...

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

So tell me then, how much good is good enough?

The fact is, only works don't through Christ, from a possition of faith, make you more like Christ.

If you don't believe, you might as well give up. Thinking comes first, then works.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon
I'm just speechless this time. You really can't see what's in front of you, can you?
You don't have to answer that. Just maybe think about it or something, when you're out one-uping your buddies with your good deeds.

You believe I enjoy helping other people to one up my friends?

...

I don't know what to tell you broher

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Akragon

Hell wasn't the mercy part. Mercy comes from love and grace. Hell comes from love and justice. The hard part people have with this is they don't think about the nature of God . Evil or sin doesn't look the same thru his eyes.And Justice is something he must carry out as required by his nature. Yet so is Mercy. Jesus is the way out of that pickle. Those who are cleansed by him receive mercy and those who chose not to enter a relationship with him receive justice.

Burning your children in eternal torture... or even a limited time... is Love

In Gods eyes...

What intrigues me is the attitude of the religious about people can't live without God in their lives.

Well he arrived with the desert religions for the Western world and, since his arrival all hell has broken out and if one looks at the world today with religion tucked nicely into various governments and the prominence of unelected men like the pope going on a jaunt wafting along in a bullet-proof wagon, waving sweetly etc, one can see precisely the effect the religiously portrayed God has had on the world. What has this man done for you personally and what has he done for himself personally?

What religiosity forget is that man has survived for considerably longer without the input of the unelected priesthoods of these three religions.

I don't have any time for those who rush up telling you "God told me to tell you blah blah blah", as I had one woman do in a supermarket. If God spoke to her, then he didn't speak to me so his message was for her and I would like to leave it that way.