God loves you, and I believe some of you may have experienced him in your life without knowing it.

Before I begin, I want to say that this is more of a spiritual discussion, but I ask for these conversations that you try your hardest to share this view as we discuss the topics I put forth.

2 Peter 1:20-21
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

When we are reading Scripture and discussing what it is we should try to read it for what it claims to be. A Book written by one source God, and the author has defined his terms to make everything coherent. Its not up to us to decide what terms mean, we have to look else where in Scripture to determine what they may mean. As we discuss please try and extract your beliefs and at least attempt to look at it from that view as well as whatever your true personal opinions are.

So to the topic at hand.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

So the thing I like about this verse is its simple. There is not a lot of room for disagreement on what this verse could possibly mean. It seems apparent to me that the statement sets us up with a pretty simple idea God is love, and love is god. Its a simple logical progression. If God is love, then love must also be God. So have you experienced love? If so you have experienced the presence of my God in your life. You see I believe that as Christians we as a body have failed on many accounts. Local Church buildings can be beautiful gatherings, but we've allowed the message of the Bible to become lost in religion. The definition I am using for religion here is an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods. This is not what the message of the Bible, but the message of the Bible is that God loves you and he wants to have a personal relationship with each and everyone of us and he wants us to care and love for each other the same way he cares and loves us.

I have never understood why some people get so upset with the message of the Bible. Sure, the Bible calls us sinners by nature, but a true look at yourself and anyone can easily identify as what the bible calls a sinner. The good news is that God took care of you, not because you deserved it but because he loves you more than you could ever imagine. Jesus, the visible image of the invisible God, came and expressed that love for us on the cross and thru his words. Luke 15 has three parables about things that are lost. In these parables Jesus is communicating his heart to the listener.

The context for Luke 15 is Jesus is being approached by tax collectors and sinners, to which the Pharisees and scribes at the scene say “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”

Jesus begins to tell the the three parables one of a lost sheep, another of a lost coin, and the last is about the prodigal son. I won't go thru all of, but I will tell you what I think Jesus was trying to communicate with these by going thru the shorter one.

Luke 15
8 “Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? 9 And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.’ 10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.

So the first thing that stands out to me is the lady has ten coins, but when she loses one she is not concerned with what she has but rather with what is misplaced. And when what is lost is found she throws a party. Thinking about the scenario its quite silly that a person would throw a party for a lost coin. Its just a coin, and you have plenty of them already. Its not really worthy of the treatment it receives.

At times, we all feel unworthy or disappointed in ourselves for our actions. These are the times we recognize our sin, and its important to understand that no good action you can do will ever erase that sin, but God has told us in Scripture that he loves you so much that he's willing to look past it if you let him, Love, take over your life. The way to do that is to enter a personal relationship with him and walk with him thru life. Not doing good, because it will get you to heaven but doing good because love has taken over your soul and became part of your essence. We may not always be worthy, but we are never worthless. What makes a coin valuable is that it has the image of the leader or king stamped upon it. God has made us in his image and we mean something to him, regardless of if we mess up some time. Christianity is about the relationship with the Jesus, the visible image of God, who is love embodied.

So sure I stuck to KISS, keep it simple stupid, this time around, but I think that this is the true message of Christianity and one that is often overshadowed by pointless bickering about the creation order of Genesis or some other silliness. To those that are lost come home, we miss you.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Sorry man, its not the bible or its message... its what the religion of the bible turns people into...

Can't come home to a place that wasn't my home to begin with

a reply to: Akragon

As I said I think Christians have made the mistake of allowing the message of the Bible to fall behind a religion(as defined in op). Rather than expressing that God wants a relationship with you. You may not call it home, but he will always welcome you with open arms should you change your mind.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
As I said I think Christians have made the mistake of allowing the message of the Bible to fall behind a religion(as defined in op). Rather than expressing that God wants a relationship with you.

It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.

That kind of relationship?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

As I said I think Christians have made the mistake of allowing the message of the Bible to fall behind a religion(as defined in op). Rather than expressing that God wants a relationship with you.

That was exactly my point...

I won't ever make the mistake of trying to return again

but thank you anyways

Right back at cha "slick".

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
The good news is that God took care of you, not because you deserved it but because he loves you more than you could ever imagine.

What if I can imagine him a lot more loving than he is portrayed?

a reply to: Akragon

That was exactly my point...

'

I know. I was just pointing out that I agree with you.

Sorry to hear you feel that way, is there any particular reason?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Hypocrisy... lies... false doctrine...

to name a few...

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

What if I can imagine him a lot more loving than he is presented to me in the Bible?

Well I didn't really say that God was loving. I said God was Love itself. Love is part of his essence. Part of what makes God, God. You can't really get more loving than love itself.

a reply to: Akragon

Hypocrisy and lies seem to be leaning more toward being upset with people. Why should that keep you from coming back to God? From giving yourself over and letting love take over your life?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Wouldn't something that is love, be loving? Or are you just describing it as one of his many attributes. Such as anger and jealousy? How to emotions like that fit into a being that is love?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Again im sorry but what makes you believe I don't have a relationship with God?

I said specifically it IS BECAUSE of the PEOPLE... because of what Christianity turns people into...

I believe in the message Jesus brought to us... I just don't believe Christians understand that message for the most part

they're too wrapped up in the entire bible and do not focus on the one man that actually knew God in the book

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Well I think there are two different meanings in Scripture that you can find about jealousy. There is a godly jealousy, and there is the sinful jealously. The Hebrew word for jealousy carries with it the idea of “redness of the face that accompanies strong emotion” (Feinberg, 1942, p. 429)—whether right or wrong. A more appropriate translation for the godly jealousy would be zeal or passion. But yes I was describing it as one of his many attributes, though yes he as love would be a loving being. And I think hes done nothing but express that for humanity in actions and in words.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I believe this sums up the whole topic.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 

God loved us so much that He sent His Son so that we might rest our faith in Him and be saved. Those who do, love the light, those who don't, love the darkness, so they might hide their sins.

Jesus is the Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world. That is what we are asked to believe.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

What about his actions in the Old Testament? You know the ones I refer to by now, I assume. Don't you think a loving being could have dealt with those situations in a lot more loving manner? Instead of smiting sinners, ordering genocides etc. Why not use his loving power to bring everyone into his embrace? Why all the fire and brimstone? That doesn't sound like the character of a being that is love imo.

a reply to: Akragon

Again im sorry but what makes you believe I don't have a relationship with God?

Its not our first time talking so that assumption comes from previous conversations.

they're too wrapped up in the entire bible and do not focus on the one man that actually knew God in the book

Because the bible claims to be from one source God. So we should try and see how it fits as one source. To let it interpret itself rather than leaving it to our personal interpretations. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I believe in the message Jesus brought to us... I just don't believe Christians understand that message for the most part

What was do you think his message was, and how does it differ from what I've put forth?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb


I agree with what you say, but I'm going to slightly argue with you.

There is a particular quote that gets brought up again and again, it is John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

If you read that quote with your perspective, it sounds like Jesus is saying forgiveness and love is the way to the greater source that is love. The problem is, most Christians have taken that to mean you must be Christian or else you burn in the fires of hell for eternity. That mindset led to justification of indigenous peoples being slaughtered en masse, because it could be justified as saving their souls, but in reality, according to your perspective, it is the total antithesis of John 14:6. This is my major issue with Christianity, and aside from Islam, it is a religion which is basically exclusive in its belief that you must be this particular religion, or else you burn for eternity. It is a huge problem, a huge problem. According to your interpretation, being a Christian is incidental so long as one loves and forgives, and I believe this to be true. So in my mind a true Christian should not care whether or not Christianity per se exists, so long as it exists in function. I also believe that to be a wiser view than is commonly afforded it. If Christians weren't so concerned about Christianity as an idea, as opposed to the idea of Christianity, I think I wouldn't mind counting myself among them.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

What about his actions in the Old Testament? You know the ones I refer to by now, I assume. Don't you think a loving being could have dealt with those situations in a lot more loving manner?

I suppose if he could have he would have? But thats a very broad topic we would have to take it one section at a time and study what the context actually says to see why God does what he does. Does he warn people first? Doesn't Abraham intercede for Sodom, and the Abraham continues to question the lord about what he would do if one righteous person was among them. The lord keeps going lower and lower saying if 40 righteous are there I wouldn't destroy it. Then 30. Then 20.

Why not use his loving power to bring everyone into his embrace?

Love is not something you can force on people. It is a relationship people have to willingly enter and work at. Also that would affect free will which imo wouldn't be loving either. For example, you don't seem to want to live with the God of the Bible so if he loves you why would he force you into his presence forever?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Its not our first time talking so that assumption comes from previous conversations.

so I guess its safe to assume the same about you?

Because the bible claims to be from one source God. So we should try and see how it fits as one source. To let it interpret itself rather than leaving it to our personal interpretations. I don't see anything wrong with that.

the bible makes a lot of claims...

Paul claiming "all scripture is God breathed" certainly doesn't make it true

And once one actually reads or has read the book numerous times... it becomes quite evident that the opposite is actually the truth

What was do you think his message was, and how does it differ from what I've put forth?

Love your neighbour, and love God... pretty simple really...

Christians might love their God... but loving their neighbours?

Hardly...

You said God is love... yet that love does not come out in the majority of people I've met that adhere to said religion

its usually nothing more then a thin mask veiled in deceit...