For those who continue to believe nobody knows why the pyramids were built

originally posted by: MysterX

originally posted by: Marduk

originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: theantediluvian

And the Pyramids in China, South America, Indonesia, Middle-East, Cambodia...etc.?

Are they all evolved from Mastabas too?

they were thousands of years apart, so unless you're claiming that the Aliens were also time travellers...

You seem to be fixated on aliens mate, i didn't mention them.

The fact that Pyramids are built at different times all over the Earth only increases the chances of Egyptians having copied pyramidal designs they might have encountered on their travels, not lessened the chances.

Wanna mention ET's again?

So the Egyptians copied one of the other cultures pyramids on their travels ??
Excluding the Brazilian ones made of sea shells or Ziggurats, which Egyptians wouldn't even need to leave home to hear about, the Egyptian pyramids came first, so we're back to time travel again.


Even in the first millennium, when the Egyptian pyramid age was long over the Egyptians weren't competent at oceanic travelling, they had to hire Phoenicians to take them around Africa
www.livius.org...
and again, as mentioned, described, depicted and shown repeatedly through this thread, the evolution of the Mastaba into a true pyramid is well documented. If you aren't aware of those facts, I urge you to research them a little, then you'd be as bored of this "outside knowledge" crap as the rest of us

originally posted by: redchad

I read stocks work and don't know how you can compare working with small vases in comparison to the granite coffer or other megalithic works.

If you had actually read Stocks' work, you'd know he has limited himself to vases.

This old website lays out what Stocks has done regarding sawing granite slabs with copper saws.

Harte

a reply to: Harte


Probably better if you got away from your screen and found an experienced stonemason showed him the samples as shown on the video and ask him

Has anyone mentioned the Sphinx yet? I mean, it is a thread about the Pyramids but it pertains quite closely to the discussion. There seem to be a few favorable theories that the Sphinx was created before the Egyptian civilization took root in the form of a giant (actual) lion, and was only later modified to have the head of a man. And if we don't know who built the sphinx... Well, I don't think it's impossible that there were one or two smaller pyramids that the Egyptians used as a basis.

I'm not sure if new data has come up in that regard, though.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
I think the main argument is missed in the OP without the need to sinking down to the Ancient Aliens level.

It is entirely possible that the "Great" Pyramid were built in the "1st times", only to receive renovations during the time it was supposed to have been built. That of course is neither here nore there as the discussion of the OP is geared towards the "why" as evidenced in the OP, I.e. Sarcophagi.

Seeing how I'm not an Egyptologist, I'll just say from a layman perspective, I can see how the Egyptians would have marveled ad such a grand site and spent several generations learning to emulate the construction of them as a place to honor and revere their pharoahs.

To simply say "I think it was Ancient Aliens" responsible for the confusion is highly disingenuous and will on marginalize those with an alternate view. You've neutered the OP before it started. There are several researchers who think along the same lines I noted above without the need to sink down to aliens or ad hominem because someone thinks outside the accreted view of mainstream archeologists, because no doubt that's all this thread will devolve to anyway.

In fact, it's nearly impossible to have a grown discussion about this topic on ATS, the same old figures from both sides always insure to stop the discussion by walking in and #ing on the carpet.

On a side note, my physics professor thinks they were built by Martians a long time ago. Don't figure. but he also says he can predict the stock market using fib sequence, which I follow. Stocks are based on human emotion which collective does make it predictable by and large. Oops, sorry, off topic.

Very well said, you've summed it up well! I have to also say your physics teacher sounds like my kind of Guy! Yes My belief is that when the Cro Magnons suddenly appeared 36,000 years ago mysteriously in the fossil record, was the time they came from Mars and founded the likes of Atlantis and Lemuria. These Guys are also where I believe Rh negative blood originates. I also heard the Sumerien Kings list traces back to this time when they suddenly 'appeared'. So this is where the disinfo is laid imo (with regards to 'ancient aliens') 'they' are pushing for the belief it was little green men, when in fact these beings were human like, except not homo sapien sapien. The original CMs are also behind a significant percentage of the UFO phenomena, so as Mac Tonnies suggests, Cryptoterrestrials may be a more appropriate term.

a reply to: EndOfDays77

Yes My belief is that when the Cro Magnons suddenly appeared 36,000 years ago mysteriously in the fossil record, was the time they came from Mars and founded the likes of Atlantis and Lemuria. These Guys are also where I believe Rh negative blood originates. I also heard the Sumerien Kings list traces back to this time when they suddenly 'appeared'. So this is where the disinfo is laid imo (with regards to 'ancient aliens') 'they' are pushing for the belief it was little green men, when in fact these beings were human like, except not homo sapien sapien.

But Cro Magnons were homosapians sapians and we also know that their ancestors came from Africa not Mars and were not particularly more advanced in their material culture than other non Cro magnons to the point of building super civilizations like Atlantis and Lemuria, they were not human like they were humans.

originally posted by: EndOfDays77
I also heard the Sumerien Kings list traces back to this time when they suddenly 'appeared'.

you heard wrong

originally posted by: redchad
a reply to: Harte


Probably better if you got away from your screen and found an experienced stonemason showed him the samples as shown on the video and ask him

Right. An "experienced" stonemason that has never sawn nor seen anyone saw granite by hand.

Why would his opinion matter?

Stocks has sawn granite by hand. Just because you don't want to consider the truth of that statement doesn't make it false or even an exaggeration.

Stocks measured the progress while sawing, and those numbers I've provided to you.

Stocks measured the loss of tool surface while sawing, and those numbers I've provided to you.

Stocks tried it with dry sand abrasive and wet sand abrasive and those results I've provided to you.

In other words, you are suggesting I take the opinion of a person that has never sawn granite by hand over the opinion of a person that has sawn granite by hand when it comes to the subject of hand-sawing granite.

Harte

originally posted by: redchad
a reply to: Harte


Probably better if you got away from your screen and found an experienced stonemason showed him the samples as shown on the video and ask him

I'm an (moderately) experienced stonemason (several years, working primarily with granite), have cut and sawn countless large granite slabs (weighing up to several tons) by hand, and have even used copper tools on rare occasions. The information provided by Harte is accurate.

a reply to: theantediluvian
I think your timeline is backwards. The pyramid of Giza is the oldest pyramid. The later pyramids declined in the structural integrity and design. It appears the oldest pyramid was the most complicated and the biggest and thereafter they became smaller less complicated. If I'm right then your assumption of the evolution pyramids is incorrect. Whether they were burial tombs or not I do not know but I think the technology to build the pyramid of Giza has never been explained to anyone satisfaction.

a reply to: brendanduke

Silly Wombat.

Do you have anything to back up your claims?

Have you actually read the links provided in this - and other- threads about the same topic?

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance
Sorry again about the delay but I only occasionally dip in and out of this forum. OK! I also have a history of working in the stone industry using a variety of natural stones including granite. I also have friends and colleagues in the industry who also state cuts of this precision can't be done without modern tools. But we could go down the yes you can no you can't route forever. So out of interest don't you think it strange the medieval castle builders who built castles all over Europe and the Middle East didn't use the cutting techniques used by the Egyptians. After all according to you its easy and at the time these castles were state of the art.
But these medieval castles could quite easily be recreated using tools of the time.

This is all bull since we know that Aliens love to work with raw stone and that man can not work with raw stone since the Technics are extremely advance that only an Alien that can travel 1000 light years figure out.

originally posted by: redchad
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance
Sorry again about the delay but I only occasionally dip in and out of this forum. OK! I also have a history of working in the stone industry using a variety of natural stones including granite. I also have friends and colleagues in the industry who also state cuts of this precision can't be done without modern tools. But we could go down the yes you can no you can't route forever. So out of interest don't you think it strange the medieval castle builders who built castles all over Europe and the Middle East didn't use the cutting techniques used by the Egyptians. After all according to you its easy and at the time these castles were state of the art.
But these medieval castles could quite easily be recreated using tools of the time.

Nobody said it was easy.

However, not only did I say that it's been done, I told you who did it.

What are you, Google disabled?

Harte

originally posted by: Xtrozero
This is all bull since we know that Aliens love to work with raw stone and that man can not work with raw stone since the Technics are extremely advance that only an Alien that can travel 1000 light years figure out.

wut

a reply to: Harte funny that the Roman or Greek stonemasons never produced work to this precision I'm sure they would love to have drilled holes through stone to the standard of these ancient sights, be it Giza, Cuzco puma punku or Baalbeck. I'd also be interested to meet a modern day stonemason who has precision cut a 100 ton+ slab of granite with modern day tools. Because as you know what you couldn't get a slab that size into the workshop and you also couldn't get the machinery to the site. I'm sure the castle builders would love to have used 800-1000 ton slabs of stone for their defences because it would have made a pretty formidable defence system. But they didn't because it couldn't be done at that time. All these stone masons be it Greek Roman or medieval castle builders all had something in common the stone they used was all of a size to be able to manhandle it.
You really need to stop being a keyboard warrior and get out from behind you screen and get into the real world not everything you read on the Internet is true. It's a bit like I said if you give me a pile of aluminium and a rubber mallet with enough time il make a space shuttle

originally posted by: redchad

You really need to stop being a keyboard warrior and get out from behind you screen and get into the real world not everything you read on the Internet is true.

Ahahahahaaha (pause for breath) ahahahahaha. You don't know who you are talking to do you?

Ahahahahahaha

originally posted by: redchadBecause as you know what you couldn't get a slab that size into the workshop

So that's why they carved the slab in the quarry then.

Besides, for all your credulity you are ignoring the evidence
The Russians moved a 1500 ton stone in the 18th Century, they didn't use any machinery or animals
en.wikipedia.org...



Whereas the largest stone in the great pyramid weighed 60 tons.

originally posted by: redchad
a reply to: Harte funny that the Roman or Greek stonemasons never produced work to this precision I'm sure they would love to have drilled holes through stone to the standard of these ancient sights, be it Giza, Cuzco puma punku or Baalbeck.

Really?

Hole cut in granite by an Egyptologist (Mark Lehner) and a stonemason (Roger Hopkins) under supervision of Denys Stocks using copper drill and sand abrasive:

Source.

You seem to be blissfully unaware of even the simplest fact about Greek and Roman stoneworking, by the way. Are you purposefully maintaining your ignorance in order to keep your sparkly and fantastical worldview alive?

Harte

a reply to: Marduk

I'm pretty sure there's machinery in that picture, though, so it's not exactly the best example.