For those who continue to believe nobody knows why the pyramids were built

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Nope. Not missing at all that beloved ideas aren't factual. Reference: anything I've said here about religion and/or politics.

I can't tell you how uninterested I am regarding your personal ideas about archaeology and American holidays.

Speaking of facts, why don't you offer some that challenge the accepted archaeology of what the Pyramids are, when they were built, etc., rather than just mouthing garden-variety pop cultural attempts at epistomology.

Snarky? Well, number one, I was responding to a specific member, so since you feel disposed to offer me unsoliticted advice about how I post or what you think I believe or don't believe, here's some in return: don't take public comments personally particularly if they weren't directed at you.

This "we all know" generality is logically fallacious; have facts?

I have giggled through the entire OP, to the point I had to stop and ask myself why.

The reason is because it's so IN YO FACE TRUE.

Giggles or not, it's the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

a reply to: nOraKat

There are several critical differences between ziggurats and Egyptian pyramids:

- ziggurats are stacked platforms with ramps or staircases on the outside
- ziggurats had temples on the top
- ziggurats don't have any internal structures/voids; no chambers, halls or shafts
- ziggurats were constructed of mud brick right up till the last ones were built
- ziggurats had painted exteriors
- ziggurats aren't found in clusters
- ziggurats aren't found alongside tombs

The pyramids of Egypt had smooth exteriors, clad in polished white limestone, with no external staircases and no temples or any other structures on top — in fact, they terminated in a pointed capstone. Egyptian pyramids have chambers, halls and shafts and are found in necropolises, in proximity to other burial structures (mastabas, rock cut tombs, smaller "satellite" pyramids).

Perhaps most importantly, the pyramids contained sarcophagi and starting with the Pyramid of Unas, pyramid texts which are mostly spells/utterances focusing on death/rebirth/the afterlife and the like.

The rest of this post isn't a direct response to your comment about ziggurats but I'm including it here because it's a continuation of my thoughts above and I should really have expounded more on the evidence beyond the apparent evolution of pyramid construction from mastaba to their massive cousins.

Much of the speculation for alternative purposes for the construction of pyramids has to do with the fact that no complete mummies of pharaohs have been found in any of the large pyramids. This is often shortened to "no mummies have been found in the Egyptian pyramids." This is an EXTREMELY MISLEADING STATEMENT. Here's a short list of remains found in pyramids:

- In the Pyramid of Djoser was found a mummified left foot and coffins including one containing the remains of a child.
- A skull, right arm and shin were found in the sarcophagus in the pyramid of Unas
- In the Pyramid of Teti, a mummified arm and shoulder were found on the floor of the burial chamber
- In a smaller satellite pyramid, the remains of Iput, wife of Teti and daughter of Unas, were found in a cedar coffin within a limestone sarcophagus
- In the Red Pyramid, remains of what is believed to have been Sneferu's mummy were found.
- Charred bones were found in the Pyramid of Amenemhet III
- Next to the burial chamber of Menkaure's (son of Khafra) pyramid, where his basalt sarcophagus was found, were pieces of
a wooden coffin bearing his name and partial skeletal remains of a woman
- In a burial chamber of one of the three satellite pyramids of Menkaure's pyramid (G3b), the remains of a young woman were found within a pink granite sarcophagus

This is just a few such finds. There were also canopic jars, remains of canopic chests, funerary objects/burial goods, at least one death mask, etc all found in pyramids. Not to mention what was found in smaller scale pyramids that continued to be built in Egypt and centuries later the Nubian Pyramids of the Ku#e royalty were built and are indisputably tombs.

Then there's the historical texts...

a reply to: Byrd

But that doesn't disprove what I had wrote. I'm not suggesting aliens or some unimaginable feat. I simply think it's plausible they are older than currently accepted, perhaps a few thousand years or more, were abandoned likely due to a local and/or global cataclysm and rediscovered.

There are researches who also make the claim that the Inca and Mayans built around already existing power structures. Existing quarry locations could explain renovations to the site as well. As I said, I'm no Egyptologist, I understand the counter argument regarding the pyramids and can see it's plausible in some ways. Strangely enough, professional archeologists agree, don't figure right?

I haven't been there yet but I will some day I'm sure of it. I'd prefer to get my own personal take on it and not others opinions if I have a choice.

originally posted by: Leonidas
Nope. Ben Carson *REALLY* knows what the pyramids were for...

Ben Carson Says Pyramids were built to store grain

Wow, thanks for clearing that up, Ben.

Ben must have practiced neurosurgery on his own brain. Internal volume is very small and these things weren't exactly put up as fast as a Quonset hut.

This for the credulous who won't accept the timeline
The Giza radiocarbon project
www.aeraweb.org...

admittedly, this is pure science, so you probably don't have any interest in it

Whether the pyramids were built as tombs or not is not what fascinates me...it's how they were built. The great pyramid was built in 20 years? There's still no rational explanation as to how they accomplished this. Even if yes, the stones were cut by pounding them with other stones (really? come on), there's no way you're popping out a 2 ton stone every minute or 2 and setting it in place.

I work in the aerospace industry. We use precision granite stones for lubricated slip surfaces and also for inspection tables. It takes the granite mill several days to cut and polish the stones, which as much smaller than the ones at the great pyramid. When we receive the stones, it takes several hours to position and fasten them in place. We're talking 3-4 days minimum from cut to final location for 1 stone and we're using all the man power and machine power we need. Ancient people banging rocks against rocks did this once every minute?

a reply to: Battlefresh

You are familiar with the fact that the quarry from where the stones were cut is right next to the GP?



Those are the "stumps" from which they were cut.

I work in the aerospace industry. We use precision granite stones for lubricated slip surfaces and also for inspection tables. It takes the granite mill several days to cut and polish the stones, which as much smaller than the ones at the great pyramid.

Another common myth is that that all of the stones are cut to and dressed to some extreme degree of precision. The bulk of the GP is made of lower quality limestone with the joints filled with gypsum mortar. The outer casing was a finely polished white limestone and that's what everyone would have seen in antiquity and therefore where the most attention to detail would have been paid. Granite was used for the chambers inside. We also have examples of Egyptian craftsman at work on other monumental structures and you can see no lost technology, magic or aliens appear to have been involved:




EDIT:

Looks like I've already shared this with you on a thread you started here. Identification of images and sources cited there.

a reply to: Byrd
I suggest you watch the video posted by Cyruay on page 2 but then again you can take a horse to water!

a reply to: theantediluvian

I debated starting my own thread with something I began writing the other day before you posted this. Since you went to great lengths to create your OP, I will just include my theory here...



My Theory About The Pyramids Of The World


Much of the focus in our lifetime when it comes to pyramids, the Giza Plateau gets the most attention. They are magnificent structures with very precise measurements and the construction and purpose have been subjected to numerous hypotheses. They are not alone.

They have been purported to have been built by ancient Egyptians along with their correlation to the constellation Orion, the supposed use as tombs for Pharaohs and their royal families to achieve immortality in the afterlife are some of the most prevalent ideas.

All of this is conjecture and is based on a very flimsy amount of evidence.

No. I do not have any proof that what I am going to suggest about the entirety of the pyramids that exist on this planet is the complete unequivocal truth.

The first observation I will suggest is this…The magnetic poles of this planet shift positions as well as flip their polarities. This happens gradually in our time line and takes many 1000’s of years to happen.

The terrain and the weather of the planet changes with it. Earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, sinking of land, raising of mountains, displacement of water; all of these situations have occurred due to the magnetic pole shifts throughout the lifetime of this planet.

At the time, when some of these pyramids were built, during various cultures, they were placed directly on magnetic poles to harness energy. As the poles shifted, the placement and need to change the locale of the pyramids shifted. Where they were built became obsolete and civilizations migrated elsewhere or left the planet entirely.

They probably had water sources that dissipated or became displaced with the shifts and the pyramids could not sustain the magnetic energy in conjunction with the solar power to allow them to function as intended.

Perhaps they were the equivalent to, what we have today, called nuclear reactors, only they did not run on plutonium.

The second observation is this…the alignment of many of these pyramids seems to mirror the placement of Orion’s Belt and there is a very good reason for this; Orion, as it is called for some strange reason, is possibly the origin of the source for the power these pyramids are designed to harness.

The third and final observation…many pyramids were built to emulate what some civilizations thought the purpose was for and had nothing to do with energy sources.

I believe many of the pyramids we have discovered have been misdiagnosed for purpose and age; they may have been used as tombs in some cases, but that does not mean that was the original purpose. Our ability to place a time line or provide an accurate age is misguided because we are trying to use scientifically flawed methods to do so.

Either way, whatever speculation there has been is not proof, they are merely suppositions and subjective ideas. The why, the how, the who, the when…all are to be yet confirmed.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Yes, we did discuss this already, but still, this does not explain how they were able to cut these stones (precision or not) so quickly (with stone tools) and place 2.1 million of them within 20 years. I'm not sayin' aliens. I'm not saying my theory of stone creation. I'm not disagreeing with any theory really. I'm just looking for a logical explanation to how they did it so fast, based on the technology they had available to them.

In my opinion, they either used tool or technology we aren't aware of, or, the pyramids were built over a much longer period than we have been told. Is this not a valid thought process? If not, I'd like to hear a play-by-play on how the stones were cut and placed so quickly and with what tools.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
All of this is conjecture and is based on a very flimsy amount of evidence.

Centuries of scientific exploration is the flimsiest of evidence
I think its quite clear that you are ignorant of that evidence

originally posted by: Battlefresh
In my opinion, they either used tool or technology we aren't aware of, or, the pyramids were built over a much longer period than we have been told. Is this not a valid thought process? If not, I'd like to hear a play-by-play on how the stones were cut and placed so quickly and with what tools.

2,000,000 divided into 7300 days means that they placed 274 blocks per day

imagine if there were 100 teams, they'd have to place almost three blocks a day
Surely as you say, that would be completely impossible, especially over the 400 metre distance from the quarry
lol

a reply to: theantediluvian

They have one thing in common - that they are both colossal structures made from earth.

What I am saying is that, being neighbors, contemporaries, (or even the case where one civilization spawned from the other; Mesopotamian/Sumerian spawning Egypt), that Egyptians may have seen the great ziggurats and were inspired by them, and built something similar, though they decided to use them for another purpose. I am not saying pyramids were used to make offerings or sacrifices for ritual, or used as alien landing platforms.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I remember seeing one show where particular structures had an unbelievable level of precision and flatness. He used this tool that would show light bleeding under it, if it were not a super-flat surface. He said that level of flatness was not achievable by hand.

still, not saying aliens..

Unless of course the entire western world are the descendants of an alien slave race.

originally posted by: redchad
a reply to: Byrd
I suggest you watch the video posted by Cyruay on page 2 but then again you can take a horse to water!

I have. It's pretty awful. The most hilarious scene was the two cigarette smoking guys (who haven't done manual labor in a very long time... if ever) halfheartedly pounding a lump of granite to prove conclusively that diorite hammers were NOT used for Hatshepsut's obelisk. BTW, the guide there is the one I think I photographed at Hatshepsut's obelisk last month (they might be twins.)

Let's talk about the quarries for a moment.

Some of the workers were slaves and captives (think of American prison gangs working on breaking rock and laying railroad track.) They weren't flabby tourists and they'd been doing some sort of labor all their lives. And yes, if you hold the rocks like these inexperienced people did, you'd hurt your hands while the real quarrymen laughed at you and made fun of you. Heck, if you went by the "hurts your hands" metric, then you'd have to say that ancient blacksmiths must have made swords by magic because pounding iron with a hammer hurts your hands and wrists and nobody could pound on iron for hours (they can and they do.)

What the video excerpt does is give you the minor overview and then the presenter pretends to be researching the technique. If he'd been honest, he would have started with the museums and scientists and asked "what's your explanation for this and how it's done" and gone from there. But he glosses over it, very carefully does NOT show you the real tools they used (bronze and copper chisels and hammers were also used, and there's any number of them in the larger museums) and gives a half-hearted effort and then says "it couldn't be done this way."


Here is a web page for those of you who might like to learn what Egyptologists REALLY think about tools and techniques, (reasonably good but somewhat outdated) on mining and transport that goes into some of the details on the evidence. It lists a handful of references at the bottom so you can check up on it.

And Reshafim has an excellent page on how well (or poorly) Egyptian built things (some of the statements may surprise you... they surprised me when I first encountered them.)

The page on quarries has additional information

You can read both these pages and check sources in far less time than it takes to watch that video.

I gotta say, I love how you're still being naysayed.

It was the only way to train bricklayers of the future.
Just look at all the brilliant monuments they haven't been able to build since with all the technology available today!

Meh! Must have been Aliens! (Why is there no Giorgio emoticon?)