China not afraid of war with USA - Homeland invasion and occupation now possible!

originally posted by: hknudzkknexnt
a reply to: StargateSG7

I laugh at the idea of a foreign invasion

---

You NEED to have experience in
Asian cultures to understand
the prevalent concept of:

"Keeping and Saving Face"

which is the OVERRIDING perogative in
any negotiation or confrontation, China
would rather lose ALL money rather
than "Lose Face" to it's people who
help keep the Chinese Communist
Party leadership and mid-level
bureaucrats in power!

ANY possibility of "Losing Face"
will be met with the STRONGEST
possible reaction which means
that the Chinese Military and its
Leadership WILL NOT BEHAVE
according to American standards!

If One Billion Chinese Citizens
have to die so that Chinese leadership
does not "Lose Face" then that is what
will be done!

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE HOW FAR that
Chinese leadership will go to sacrifice external
monies or its own people to fulfil internal
goals .... NEVER FORGET that China will
DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN...bluffing
is NOT in their game plan!

If they want to invade the USA, the
Chinese political and military leadership
ABSOLUTELY WILL sacrifice One Billion
people if that's what it takes! And due
to culural issues, there are ENOUGH
PEOPLE in China who follow the
"Keeping Face" tradition that
they ABSOLUTELY WILL FOLLOW
the perogatives of their leaders!

a reply to: StargateSG7

How are they going to get here?

On ships of the imagination?

How are they going to protect those ships of the imagination?

The logistics are close enough to impossible as to make no difference. ...and that's what wins wars, logistics. Getting there firstest, with the mostest.

I very much doubt that the Chinese would be interested in "homeland invasion".
The impression I get from late twentieth century history (I don't have any inside knowledge) is that China's foreign policy concerns lie in two areas;
1) Reasserting control over territory which used to be part of China before its modern times of weakness.
Hence fighting with India to redefine the border-line in the Himalayas (without bothering to invade India as such).
Exchanging fire with the Soviets at the Ussuri river border.
Maintaining the re-absorption of Taiwan as a long-term aim and refusing to consider the island as anything other than "A part of China currently under separate rule".

2) More recently, securing access to world resources needed for its industry.
Hence opening up relations with Africa and South America.
It would probably regard its interest in the South China Sea as coming under both categories.

"War with America" in the Chinese mind probably means reacting to any American attempts to interfere with those concerns. Such as helping to defend Taiwan against a Chinese invasion, or blockading a Chinese base on the African coast.
In its most extreme form, it might involve gaining sufficient control over the oceans to contain American power within North America, which would give China everything they could want.
There is no reason why an invasion of the American heartland should be on their agenda even as a remote aim.

originally posted by: StargateSG7

So the average of 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 = 1/4.33

You are right about the mathematics capabilities of some US citizens dropping....

(1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 ) / 3 = 1/4 exactly.

reminds me to look an movie again... The Good The bad and the Ugly.....lollllll

Fear seems the magic words today... to earn and collect money....!

why should china fears an war with the US....???????????
if your neighbour owns money of you... kill youre neighbour ! youre out of debts than....

www.usdebtclock.org...

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: StargateSG7

How are they going to get here?

On ships of the imagination?

How are they going to protect those ships of the imagination?

The logistics are close enough to impossible as to make no difference. ...and that's what wins wars, logistics. Getting there firstest, with the mostest.

You will find out when it happeneds.

a reply to: StargateSG7

Why would they ever NEED to go to war with us? Corporate America , Wall street and their bought and paid for politicians have already surrendered our jobs and our industry to them and put us in debt for trillions. The war is over. All that is left is our land and agriculture. Oh wait.....

I am not worried about a homeland invasion by China until they finally disarm us ....err unless you count all the so called illegals coming across the border or a couple of hundred thousand or so called refugees our government is bringing in ...

The one part of the Ops post I do agree with though is China gets allot more bang for its' buck when it come to military spending..

You consolidate your base and territory before you start expanding to the other side of the world.. A friend of mine told me that the Philippine and Indonesian pirates are having a tough time now with the Chinese patrols... China has drastically cut down on their operations in the area while they have not interfered with normal commerce shipping.. I dunno ... But I do know at one time the pirates were a serious threat to life and limb. Just ask any of the Vietnamese boat people..

originally posted by: 727Sky
I am not worried about a homeland invasion by China until they finally disarm us ....err unless you count all the so called illegals coming across the border or a couple of hundred thousand or so called refugees our government is bringing in ...

The one part of the Ops post I do agree with though is China gets allot more bang for its' buck when it come to military spending..

You consolidate your base and territory before you start expanding to the other side of the world.. A friend of mine told me that the Philippine and Indonesian pirates are having a tough time now with the Chinese patrols... China has drastically cut down on their operations in the area while they have not interfered with normal commerce shipping.. I dunno ... But I do know at one time the pirates were a serious threat to life and limb. Just ask any of the Vietnamese boat people..

If what you say is correct and I do believe it is then it has to be settled through discussion and diplomacy and if all partys can come to a mutually beneficial agreement then I take back my own opinion, that said I do think they are getting too powerful too fast and it will lead to a geopolitical crisis that may end up escalating into a regional war, this in turn may drag the rest of us into it though in fact the EU are so far up the chinese hooter these days that it will probably end up being the US and it east asian allies standing alone, I doubt australia would want to get involved as China is a big investor in there economy at the moment.

I hope you are correct and I hope a peaceful compromise that is beneficial to all party's can be arranged but currently China is pretty forceful on it's claim of territorial sovereignty over these reef's, from an ecological view what they have done is disastrous for fish in the area as well and the local fishermen must be suffering as these reef's were important breeding ground's.

China is running out of fresh water ,safe food and clean air. Soon they will suffer their overpopulation if they don't grab someone Else's land of plenty. Russia isn't going to share and Africa cant be controlled.

The US is the only country that offers them EVERYTHING

Unfortunately for China, Our technology greatly surpasses theirs and they don't have the balls to lose their chairmen to find out

Don't worry about it. China exists because we buy all their crap. Chinese economy is an economy because of the vain American consumer. If they want to keep their factories open and their population employed then they better behave themselves around the US military. Besides, building artifical islands then claiming the territory around it isn't legit to anyone. If America started doing that people would freak. The US is solidifying their trade partnerships with their SE Asian and Australian friends and I have no problem with any of this.

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby

originally posted by: StargateSG7

So the average of 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 = 1/4.33

You are right about the mathematics capabilities of some US citizens dropping....

(1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 ) / 3 = 1/4 exactly.

---

Hmmmm....perhaps I am missing something in my AVERAGING math...

( 1 / 3 ) + ( 1 / 4 ) + ( 1 / 6 ) = ( 3 / 13 ) then divide by 3 = ( 1 / 4.33 )

maybe you could enlighten me as to the specific rules
regarding the addition and averaging of fractional values
so that I could correct myself and NOT cause a $500 million
spacecraft to crash in the future due to my bad real number math!



====

NEVER MIND ! .... I see what you did when you used the
LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) to change that equation to:

( 4 / 12 ) + ( 3 / 12 ) + ( 2 / 12 ) = ( 9 / 36 ) divided by 3 which equals 3 / 12 = 1 / 4

MEA CULPA --- OOPS...I better fix that averaging function
so that our $500,000,000 spacecraft won't crash due to my
bad real number math --- good thing REAL engineers review
all our code.......!!!!! --- ;-) :-) :-)

YUP --- The math ability of us just sucks utterly the big one!
...so remember that it is forgetful eggheads like me who are
programming the anti-lock brake systems and the fly-by-wire
flight control systems in the cars YOU drive and the planes
YOU fly in ... BE AFRAID !!! .... BE VERY VERY AFRAID !!!!!

AND OOPS --- So my Chinese estimates of spending are off by a few
TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars...a Billion Here...a Billion there and soon
we are talking about some real money !!!!

originally posted by: StargateSG7


You NEED to have experience in
Asian cultures to understand
the prevalent concept of:

"Keeping and Saving Face"

which is the OVERRIDING perogative in
any negotiation or confrontation

You are absolutely correct.
With CHC (Confucian Heritage Cultures) this is THE overriding concept.

a reply to: StargateSG7
So someone has the capacity to threatne another nation. Well so do we. We could smash a number of them. But we don't. Just because you have the capacity to kill, doesn't mean you will.

but your warnings are heard. I think many of us understand China is powerful. It all depends I guess. What do their people want and how easy are they to manipulate? How militaristic are its leaders?

I think China could use all its power not for war but discovery. I know it's naive, maybe. World War is bound to happen eventually. I don't want to be the one who says it won't or bends over when Hitler invades.

I'd like to think the best of us aren't comparing military capacity to measure performance or worth. Shouldn't it be something like manufacturing or science or health achievement? There's more than bombs!

a reply to: StargateSG7

as MR Spad said they do not have the logistics or ability to invade the U.S.
they don't have equipment to do so, unless they can hide about 50,000 aircraft, 30 carriers, and what ever else need to move troops and equipment. and that would be very hard to do, considering how many satellites are peering down on them.

here are some numbers from globalfirepower.com. U.S. is on the left.

AIR


Double All Attack Aircraft, and Fighters, More than triple Attack Helicopters, Five times transport aircraft.

Naval Fleet strength


again 20 times aircraft carriers, 2 times the Destroyers, The U.S. only has 5 more subs than they do, but their subs are no where as advanced as our, even if you do believe that they have the capability to pop up in the middle of our fleet as it was rumored one of theirs did, not all of theirs have that capability.

now the ships that they have more numbers in don't so anything as far as leading the way for a invasion. frigates, corvettes, and coastal patrol boats do not make for a strong invasion fleet.

Armour

now here they have advantage in the numbers in all but one group, but theirs are no where as advanced as ours. in fact they don't even rank in the top 10 tanks of the world.

U.S. vs China GlobalFirePower

still i guess with as many people as they have they could crank out the junk pretty damn quick, but when the iron ore and scrap metal quits flowing, where they gonna get the materials need to build all their junk.

and all that's not even counting the big guns, GFP doesn't count nukes.

originally posted by: StargateSG7

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby

originally posted by: StargateSG7

So the average of 1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 = 1/4.33

You are right about the mathematics capabilities of some US citizens dropping....

(1/3 + 1/4 + 1/6 ) / 3 = 1/4 exactly.

---

Hmmmm....perhaps I am missing something in my AVERAGING math...

( 1 / 3 ) + ( 1 / 4 ) + ( 1 / 6 ) = ( 3 / 13 ) then divide by 3 = ( 1 / 4.33 )

maybe you could enlighten me as to the specific rules
regarding the addition and averaging of fractional values
so that I could correct myself and NOT cause a $500 million
spacecraft to crash in the future due to my bad real number math!

====

NEVER MIND ! .... I see what you did when you used the
LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) to change that equation to:

( 4 / 12 ) + ( 3 / 12 ) + ( 2 / 12 ) = ( 9 / 36 ) divided by 3 which equals 3 / 12 = 1 / 4

MEA CULPA --- OOPS...I better fix that averaging function
so that our $500,000,000 spacecraft won't crash due to my
bad real number math --- good thing REAL engineers review
all our code.......!!!!! --- ;-) :-) :-)

YUP --- The math ability of us just sucks utterly the big one!
...so remember that it is forgetful eggheads like me who are
programming the anti-lock brake systems and the fly-by-wire
flight control systems in the cars YOU drive and the planes
YOU fly in ... BE AFRAID !!! .... BE VERY VERY AFRAID !!!!!

AND OOPS --- So my Chinese estimates of spending are off by a few
TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars...a Billion Here...a Billion there and soon
we are talking about some real money !!!!

Um. Well I wasn't afraid before, but I am now. Do you expect me to believe that you are an engineer or programmer and you didn't know how to add fractions? Or are just assuming there are some engineers/programmers who don't know how to add fractions? Which by the way, most people learn before middle school.

a reply to: StargateSG7

While it's funny to read some responses from Americans who have the visceral chest puffing reaction, the reality is we (the USA) is the Evil Empire. We have invaded more countries under false pretenses, aided/supported more coup and assassination attempts that perhaps any country in history.

Assuming that the actions of Russia and China aren't mere spectacles for the world stage and are genuine with their dislike for the USA, right now is a great time to attack the USA. Knowing what I know, the USA is weak and will be weak for the next 5 years (approx.). If they truly want to do the USA harm and destabilize it, it's now or never.

But I'm not sold that the recent actions and words of Russia and China aren't merely drama for the world stage. Only time will tell.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

There is one thing you are forgetting when comparing China's military assets - location, location, location.

The USA is spread all over the globe due to our Evil Empire status. China does not have the same level of spread we do. If they chose to mobilize it would be a concentrated effort and we couldn't be guaranteed to provide the support fast enough, potentially.

The only thing that keeps China in check is the USA bases in Japan. If they tried to reach the shores of the US with troops and vehicles they would have to make sure they attacked the US bases in Japan as well. (Perhaps why the Japanese have been so eager to get their military fired back up.)

Delete... double post.

China has no experience, other than the bush of Vietnam or Korea or picking on unarmed Shaolin priests.

In ww2 the US had to save them from the Japs. We shouldn't have. Nixon should have left them to their pathetic devices and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now