Tuition fees and sugardaddies: The rise of student prostitution

originally posted by: and14263
You guys don't have daughters?

But it would be okay if it were someone's son?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Debate 101... How predictable.

Obviously it would not be ok.

a reply to: and14263

You guys don't have daughters?

I do. And if she chose to have sex for money, I would not agree with her because she'd have no need to do so, but I certainly would not judge her for it.

Nor would I try and prevent her from doing what she wants, since she's an adult.

The problem is they are indirectly forced into it and in most cases will regret the decision years down the line.

Ahh...All of them are being forced? All of them will regret it?

It's much more complicated than 'two consenting adults'. Age, maturity and decision making processes are all different things within different people.

Which is exactly why it's none of your, or my business. You have no right to determine what's complicated, what maturity level and what decisions those adults choose to make.

This whole ' think of the children ' argument and slut shaming of women are a series of really really stupid arguments.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

It's not about shaming women or men, its about waking them up to the moral hazards of earning a wage by being someone's sexual plaything... That's not an honest way to earn a living in my book.

And dishonesty is a bad path. Darkside 101

Double post

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

It's not about shaming women or men, its about waking them up to the moral hazards of earning a wage by being someone's sexual plaything

That is shaming women. Because YOUR morality and mine are subjective. And just because you consider it immoral, doesn't make it so for the large majority of people who work in that industry. So telling people who don't consider it immoral that they are leading down a bad path for doing something that you don't personally agree with is shaming them.

It's also shaming the men, because you make them out to be predators or some kind of terrible people for being willing to pay a woman for sex.

Furthermore, a lot of these women actually feel empowered in those situations.

You can't get around that.

That's not an honest way to earn a living in my book.

Prostitution is the OLDEST job in history. Why are people so hung up on being paid for sex? What is the actual problem?

That it makes you uncomfortable? That it challenges your ideas of morality?

~Tenth

originally posted by: and14263
Obviously it would not be ok.

If they are adults it is their choice to make.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I'm not judging anyone.

Your 'she's an adult' argument, although appeals to the majority, is not sensible. Just as not all women are being forced to do this, not all adults are in the correct frame of mind to make sensible decisions. And when one's body (and in particular the possible exploitation of one's body) - is in the frame your logic holds no weight and is an easy get out clause.

Ahh...All of them are being forced? All of them will regret it?

If you read what I wrote the word I used was 'most' cases. A cheap shot there.

It's not about 'slut shaming' of women - It's about protecting the vulnerable and not being scared to admit when certain people can become vulnerable from the pressures of society.

There's a massive difference between a 21 year old professional worker and a 21 year old student who has never worked before.

I expect more from a member of your stature, just as you say I have no right to determine what's complicated - you have no right to determine when a person is vulnerable or not.


And as for the fact that if you did have a daughter that was get poked by old men's penises everynight you wouldn't do anything about it "because she is an adult" - then that as a parent is utterly, utterly shameful.

A reminder of your words:

I do. And if she chose to have sex for money, I would not agree with her because she'd have no need to do so, but I certainly would not judge her for it.

Nor would I try and prevent her from doing what she wants, since she's an adult.

What a horrible example of human behaviour.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

OR, instead of going to college, they could just become fur traders with no morals! i kid.. I kid..

Ha!

That why you should pick a science.

I had freinds pick urmmm lets say better ways to make money on the side....

Lucky I had rich parents so no haveing to make extra money.

a reply to: tothetenthpower
I'm not trying to shame anyone by saying its immoral, I'm just saying i think its immoral.
If people feel ashamed by others discussing the morality of their profession that's their problem.

Immorality should be shameful. But to many its not. As you pointed out many of these young men and women selling themselves to pay for their education actually feel empowered. My good friend was a rent boy... he told me he felt empowered by his rich older clients... that didnt stop him killing himself less than 2 years on.

Temporary feelings of empowerment are no measure of how right or wrong something is. Usually, that power is actually intoxicating, and it becomes addictive. It can exacerbate and lead to all manner of psychological illnesses, that would would otherwise not have manifested, or been far less severe. There is a good kind of empowerment (living honestly being mioral) and then there is the bad kind (living dishonestly, being immoral). Prostitution exploits lust for money. And it exploits vulnerable poor people into thinking the only way they can earn that money is selling sex. It's immoral.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

A very good point - sexual encounters have an impact on the psyche whether you are adolescent or adult. Especially those with deep seeded issues behind them.

a reply to: nonjudgementalist

I've noticed the rise in Prostitution over the years... wow, just look on the internet, its all over it and only have type type in a few words! Not sure I can mention the sites on ats so I won't. But yes, it is on the rise and many women feel it is right to charge high amounts too.

They seem to be doing this more instead of actually trying in any loving relationship.... you wanna know why? Because they can make a hell of a lot of cash doing so and would prefer it to working 10 hours a day in an office earning way less.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: nonjudgementalist

It's wrong for 2 reasons.

1. 80% to 90% of prostitutes in every study ever done on prostitution suggests women don't want to be prostitutes.

Women are only prostitutes because they are forced by pimps or because they don't see any other way to support themselves. And many prostitutes fear for their lives on a regular basis.

How many of the men in this thread want to be sodomized by random men with money because you can find no other means to support yourself?

2. Women want to be loved for their heart and their mind. Women should not be degraded to pieces of meat whose only value is their body.

People can justify this all they want. But unitl women no longer are treated as meat, and married men practice monogamy, women will be regulated to second class citizens.

It's time for men to fight for women and stop exploiting them to fulfill some idiot fantasy.

If you don't agree google prostitution and check the stories and statistics for yourself.

Women don't want to be sexual objects who are degraded and supported simply because they are willing to be. Or as in most cases are forced or have no other options.

Prostitution is acceptable because men with wealth feel that it's ok to buy a fantasy and reduce women to a commodity.

Well since ther eis no stopping th eworlds oldest profession MAYBE we should REGULATE it? ELiminating the "pimps" by replacing them with government security guards and places of work. ANy hookers caught on th e street are taken to a government housing location. tested,then put under surveillance to nail the pimp. Then they get licensed and can either run it from home or live in the government cat houses.

THat would allow the Women to make their own minds up.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: nonjudgementalist

OR, instead of going to college, they could just become fur traders with no morals!

i kid.. I kid..

I would pay to see that one. I CANT QUIT YOU!!!! lol hahahaha!!

a reply to: yuppa

Smthen tells me you're not seriius

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Morality isn't subjective. If it's subjective, then it's not morality, it's just conviction.

Like so many other things, this issue is better judged on a case-by-case basis. Saying that it's entirely OK or that it's entirely not is rather inane and childish. There are women who do just fine in these situations, and I wouldn't worry about them. In other cases, there are young girls who are lured into it, and it's a tragedy to see their innocence lost in that way.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
It is not something that most women...

...

Income options that don't involve having to be some rich old decrepit geezer's piece of meat...

This is what I was refering to earlier. If it were a young man and an older women we would be all cool?

Women (and men) are free to do with thier bodies what they want.

No, it wouldn't matter the sex of either party, although older male/younger female arrangements are by far way more common for a number of social reasons.

I am aware of what your point is. My point was that this isn't a matter of "moral outrage" over the that this even exists. It is more outrage that our current social and economic climate has become as such that this has become an avenue taken more and more by people who really would rather not, but see few viable choices. And this is a road that most women, and perhaps more man than will admit, would never really want to walk unless they were pretty desperate.

My views on prostitution are this: it should totally be legal and very well regulated by the state. This is one of the few instances where I believe heavy regulation by the state is needed in an industry, and that is due to the unique nature of the sex trade, as the "product" of the sex trade is human flesh at a very physical and emotional level. But it should be totally legal for two consenting adults to exchange money in exchange for sexual goodies. From a moral standpoint, I honestly do not care. There are people who look at sex as their actual life's calling, a career, an art form, whatever. I know there are people out there who really enjoy the sex trade, and make it their career, and are no better or worse than you or I. They are genuinely happy in their trade, and can honestly be considered professional entertainers by any stretch of the word. (Is there any form of entertainment humans crave and seek more?) However, for most people, such a career/lifestyle would not be enjoyable,for too many reasons than I can list here. And most of them have nothing to do with being prude. For most people, having to sell one's own body for extremely intimate use is something most people only do when things are getting grim and desperate. So, when the number of people actually engaging in this field of work rises, it tends to be a pretty good indicator that other avenues of income and support have dried up enough that they basically working the "Last Chance Saloon" just to get by.

You have to be pretty financially desperate, so my argument is an economic and social one, given that these are college students we are talking about financing their education like this. The entire university system in this country is completely and utter disaster in it's administration, structure, financing; the number of jobs out there available to work you through college are far fewer than the number of people trying to get those jobs, and since mommy and daddy foreclosed on the house and are currently filing bankruptcy, they ain't going to be much help paying those ridiculous and ever skyrocketing tuition costs, so you're on your own. You got a scholarship, sure, hell, you even joined the military and got the G.I. bill, but since you are going for the full Masters/PhD in some STEM field, that only gets you so far. You need income. You need jobs/internships/residencies, and unfortunately, all the Starbucks barista jobs are already filled by college grads currently working to pay off their student loans. The delusion of economic recovery is in, reality, the expansion of low paying, part time, and/or minimum wage jobs coupled with the elimination of the higher paying jobs. It's stagnation. The jobs and wages sector of this economy has been in reality, stagnant since the early 2000's, while inflation continues to outpace it at a pretty alarming rate. Including college.

It's a symptom of much greater problems, and sexual morality is not one of them.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Star since you get it. It has nothing to do with morals.

I see this as much the same as the craze a few years ago when students would donate plasma a few times a week in sketchy clinics. That pretty much got shut down, and for good reason.

When the economics of an education force people to make desperate choices there's a problem.

I have known a lot of college students that paid their way with sex, drugs, or blood.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Since we agree that this is not a morality issue I appreciate your understanding of my viewpoint.

We could fill a new thread with reasons on why college is more expansive than it was/should be and many of them are a byproduct of it being a business and the governments easy money policies that encourage many people to attend who should not for various reasons and drive up the costs for those seeking a degree.