Christianity and Islam Unite

a reply to: stosh64
Here is the verse about the death of Jesus minus the Hadith bias.

Quran 4:157
And for their saying, “We have killed
the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the
Messenger of God.” In fact, they did not
kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it
appeared to them as if they did. Indeed,
those who differ about him are in doubt
about it. They have no knowledge of it,
except the following of assumptions. Cer-
tainly, they did not kill him.

Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit. Is it possible that someone killed the Holy Spirit? Mohammed is telling the truth. Jesus is immortal, an immortal might give up his flesh as a martyr but an immortal can't die.

Mohammed was refuting the sadducees, those who don't believe in Spiritual Immortality.

Acts 23:8
(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)

Jesus promises his followers immortality.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you believe in eternal life? Anyone who has eternal life can't die. When I leave my flesh I go to my father and his son. Do you die, or do you have eternal life like me?

1 Corinthians 15:50
I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Looks like Mohammed was correct the imperishable Holy Spirit did not die. He did sacrifice his body on a cross for our sins. His flesh did perish and he did return to his flesh 3 days later. But the imperishable Holy Spirit spent 3 days with his father.

Quran 4:171. O People of the Scripture! Do not ex-
aggerate in your religion, and do not say
about God except the truth. The Messiah,
Jesus, the son of Mary, is the Messenger of
God, and His Word that He conveyed to
Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in
God and His messengers, and do not say,
“Three.” Refrain—it is better for you. God
is only one God. Glory be to Him—that
He should have a son. To Him belongs
everything in the heavens and the earth,
and God is a sufficient Protector.

It's amazing what a non biased, near word for word translation of the Quran that hasn't been influenced by Hadith, actually says.

And I can reconcile anything else that you think is a contradiction. The Quran and the Bible say the same thing. The 2 religions are at odds, but the scriptures are not.

Jesus never claimed to be God. There is no trinity. Mohammed is made sure that everyone knew this.

Jesus is the son of God, exactly what Jesus said in words thay are not confusing. And a non biased interpretation of the Quran agrees.

a reply to: Isurrender73

No, Jesus was God taken flesh, but He was not the Holy Spirit. Spirit is not flesh. The Holy Spirit is also a part of God. This is the concept of trinity, three who are also one.

This is another incompatibility between Christianity and Islam. It causes Muslims to charge us with polytheism, but there are not three Gods, only one, where we agree. But the flesh of Christ is not His spirit. The spirit is Eternal, and upon His resurrection the body was made perfect.

This will happen with all of us who dwell in the Holy Spirit which was sent at Pentecost as the helper and counselor for all believers. This is His example, and this is what belief and forgiveness through Him promise us as Christians. This is the Covenant of Grace.

a reply to: Willtell

Ghandi said all the scriptures teach the same basic message. All the scriptures tell believers to coexist peacefully with people of different beliefs who are not attacking or oppressing you.

I agree with Ghandi. And anyone who doesn't believe in God should believe what Ghandi and myself believe.

Unless we accept all these men as prophets, we will continue to kill each other unitl we see a miraculous event. If the atheist are right, religions that have been at war for 1600 years will continue to be at war forever. Because if the stories are all allegorical amd metaphorical only then we will never have a miraculous sign that brings peace.

Whether atheist believe in God or not, I think it's best we all agree that all of these men taught Brotherly Love and tolerance. And all verses that sound like they don't teach Love and tolerance were necessary at the time and maybe we just don't understand them.

I believe all of these men were prophets of God.

But you should believe they all taught Brotherly Love and tolerance for those with different beliefs or we may never have peace.

God basically wanted a more "hands on approach" since apparently humans weren't getting his messages?

From what I recall in my Sunday school and Bible studies, Jesus still called him "my Father" and didn't call himself God incarnate. I know he said, "I and the father are one". But strictly speaking, so are all of us. Saying he and the creator are one is simply a more enlightened way of viewing things, and probably was taken as him being actual "God" inside a man's body by those that followed and worshiped him. You've got to remember the people he preached to were ordinary people who weren't exactly high priests with decades of eschatology under their belts.

a reply to: ketsuko

Jesus was God taken flesh, but He was not the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus was God then why did he waste so much time speaking about his father?

No , they dont need to unite...........not at all

Neither Theology needs to compromise for either one........

What needs to happen is the murderous elements of both need to be stamped out and eradicated..........

Tolerance , and love need to reign , not unification.........

I would hate a world where we were all the same...........

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: ketsuko

Jesus was God taken flesh, but He was not the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus was God then why did he waste so much time speaking about his father?

This thread is not a theoretical debate on what YOU believe about any faith .........

a reply to: Isurrender73

In The beggining was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God...

"He who has seen me has seen the Father... So how can you say? show me the father..."

The bible says Jesus Christ is God who walked the earth as man the holy spirt is his own and they are the Trinity...

Christians would die before they would accept Mohammed.

eta: Let me speak only for myself. I don't know about others.

While the adherents to both religions were asleep, the foundation for Earths next religion have already been laid....

The United Nations Universal Declaration for Human Rights has established that the Human individual is the key to global peace and through the humans' conscious interactions with each other and the universe we will establish the next religion which is that we are part of a cosmic community.

Jesus and Mohammed and Moses and Krishna and Zeus and Aliens are also part of that cosmic community.

You know....because...."Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place".

The One World Religion will be established soon, upon humanity realizing we are not alone - all of the planets civilizations are being conditioned to accept it - even here on ATS 99% will say "see - I told you aliens exist"

a reply to: ketsuko

I disagree. And the only way to reconcile Paul's words to what Jesus claimed is to understand that Jesus is the Light, and the Light is the Holy Spirit.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

An amazing thing happens when you accept that Jesus was the Holy Spirit and not God.

The Holy Spirit answered "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through the Holy Spirit.

This reconciles Jesus with Egyptian Religious beliefs, Zoroastrianism and Hinduism.

The Light Answered answered "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through the Light.

This reconciles Jesus with Buddhism.

John 14:6
Messiah answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Messiah

This reconciles Jesus with the Quran.

The religions all teach the same thing. Once you accept that Jesus is the Holy Spirit/Light/Messiah.

Or you can continue to believe in a Loving God that only sent one line of prophets. A loving God would send prophets to all men IMO.

a reply to: Isurrender73

You've got it part right. The Holy Spirit is part of Jesus, and both are part of God.

Why do you put limits on God?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Isurrender73

In The beggining was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God...

"He who has seen me has seen the Father... So how can you say? show me the father..."

The bible says Jesus Christ is God who walked the earth as man the holy spirt is his own and they are the Trinity...

If God is Love and you are shown unconditional Love then you have seen God.

Jesus is the beginning, and guess what he is also the firstborn.

Colossians 1:15
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN over all creation.

God the father was not born but Jesus his son was. God has no beginning or end. But his son is the beginning and the end.

Jesus is the word of God, and the firstborn by whom and through whom all things were created.

What were God's first words in Genesis?
"Let there be Light". What does Jesus call himself? "The Light of the World".

Jesus is the firstborn and co creator of everything except himself. He is the Light in Genesis. He is not the father, nor did he ever claim to be his father.

This is what Jesus said when speaking about himself and his father.

Luke,18:19
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Why did Jesus say only God was good? Because he was created by his father and he also had this to say.

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

And this would be why he didn't call himself good. He was only a follower of one greater then himself, his father.

99% of what Jesus said about himself makes no since unless you accept that he was God's son amd not God.

a reply to: Isurrender73

You the blind and incapable of seeing the truth...

For all these examples are best served when perceived with logic and thus can only be absolutely true if they are One and the same...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Isurrender73

You've got it part right. The Holy Spirit is part of Jesus, and both are part of God.

Why do you put limits on God?

I am not putting limits on God. I am disagreeing with the Council of Nicea and actually believing what Jesus said about himself.

Interesting that the trinity was decided at the Council. Don't you think if they were truly the Church of Peter that Peter would have made this clear before he died. The fact they had to decide on the trinity in 325 AD should invalidate their claim to apostolic succession beginning with Peter.

You can believe in the Catholic Trinity, but the fruits of the Catholic church make them far from believable IMO.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Isurrender73

You the blind and incapable of seeing the truth...

For all these examples are best served when perceived with logic and thus can only be absolutely true if they are One and the same...

See post above

I will never understand what it is about the Holy Trinity that is so difficult to understand.

God the father; the son; the Holy Spirit. Three entities. The same. He can do that, ya know. Because God.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Like I say you are blind and now a fool also, as that was a response to your above post...

now you poke at the Catholic Church and the lack of fruits?

Perhaps you prefer the fruits of Islam who are lovers of young boys, or is it really the nuts who claim to kill in Gods name or those who suicide themselves for 40 virgins...
Are those the fruits you perceive to be good works of faith???

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Georg90

both believe in Jesus and the Virgin Birth

you lack comprehension man. Islam does not recognize Jesus as God's son, which is the foundation of christian faith. That thing can never be reconciled. Islam does not "believe" in Jesus...it considers him a prophet...which is a far cry from man god.

You understand that this is not debatable in christianity.

I posted a quote from a non biased Quran interpretation that claims Jesus is the Son,,elsewhere in this thread. And there are no verses in the Quran where it says Jesus is not the son.

The only place you find that is in the Hadith, and in (parentheses), which are words added to the Quran in various English interpretations.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Isurrender73

Like I say you are blind and now a fool also, as that was a response to your above post...

now you poke at the Catholic Church and the lack of fruits?

Perhaps you prefer the fruits of Islam who are lovers if young boys, or is it really the nuts who claim to kill in Gods name or those who suicide themselves for 40 virgins...
Are those the fruits you perceive to be good works of faith???

Nope, but the Quran doesn't create a religion nor does it call for Imans. Those things come from the Hadith.

There is no promise of Virgins for martyr in the Quran, that is from the Hadith.

Mohammed did not marry a child she had to be at least 16. The younger age comes from a Hadith that contradicts itself.

Who is the one who is blind? The one who believes a man who makes a living off of God's word and does no study of other scriptures?

Or the one who has studied all scriptures and found the same esoteric truth in all scriptures?

Are you sure your not the blind being lead by the blind?

Because I have read the scriptures from nearly every religion and therefore I am not blind to what the scriptures say. Nor am I asking for any money.

Mathew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

The Ox who treads the grain are missionaries funded by the church who spread the good news. Not a man who sits at a pulpit doing a book report each week for those who already believe.

Islam is not a religion it is a word. It means one who surrenders to God. Those who made it a religion did so for personal gain. Paul said elders were men who could support their own families. Paul did not create the position of paid pastor. The Catholics decided they could create a religion for personal gain, not Jesus or Paul.