Am I wrong out of town gf partying for work?

originally posted by: leemachino
Am I wrong? My girlfriend is at a trade show out of town and has been closing the bars down and getting drunk every night with clients and co workers. I've asked her to text me after being out so I know she made it back to hotel safe. After 4 nights and zero texts because she has passed out I am the bad guy because I think she is out of line. She says it's all part of the job. She works in the medical field and she doesn't do sales. I don't see this as part of the job. She claims this will help her get ahead in the company. Tonight is the last night and I asked her to stay in and talk things out with me. I threatened to leave her and now she is laying a guilt trip
On me because all of her company is supposedly at the same bar and she says that staying will help her get ahead. I am currently packing.

Keep packing and leave. Relegate her to a footnote in your history. She's selfish and doesn't care about your concerns. That is the exact opposite of what you want in a significant other.

Go pick up a book titled His Needs Her Needs by Dr. Willard Harley. I wish I had read it long ago. It will clear things up for you real fast.

I don't want to say I am an expert, but I have had lots of experience with this topic. You're getting a lot of bad advice in this thread - read that book.

IF you didn't know, she's banging a co-worker.

a reply to: leemachino

I know a Catch U Next Tuesday when I see one. Don't look back as you pack.

Over reaction in my opinion. Obviously, you have to make your own decisions, but seems a bit insecure on your part, in my view. This just doesn't seem like something that results in the end of a relationship. Unless this is just the breaking point, and things have been headed that direction anyway, it seems like a minor issue.

You know what Bobby Brown would say

Get yourself out there to a club piss assed drunk, find a group of women and get your picture taken in the middle of them. Your face in the middle of a bum sandwich would be good, post to facebook.

All else fails get a Dudley

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

Actually, the pdf for that book is available for free. Just search google for the title. I downloaded. An interesting read.

originally posted by: Night Star
It's one thing to wine and dine with clients, but to get so drunk you pass out and can't make a phone call to let you know she is ok is not a good thing!

This is exactly right. I often travel for work and go out to these types of after work events. I have attended these events with operations, executives, and sales type people. Her role in the company is likely irrelevant as she would be encouraged to attend for socializing and team building, networking, etc.

HOWEVER, that doesn't excuse her lack of communication with you afterwards. And especially not 4 days in a row. It shows a terrible lack of respect and responsibility for you and your relationship. I always text or call my husband to let him know I am back in my hotel room and safe, no matter what.


It's also not very professional to get THAT kind of wasted 4 days in a row. Could be damaging to her reputation, if true.

a reply to: leemachino

I'm a bit conflicted about the advice I want to give you: On one hand, I almost completely called off a relationship because said ex wanted to drag me to a dodgy nightclub in De 'toilet (Detroit). In the end, I went but ended up being the downer in the party. So from that view, I can understand you want to pack and get out of there.

However, I also almost broke it off with the same person because when I was sick with the flu, I got a call almost every hour, on the hour for each of the days I was sick; I felt like I had no freedom to do anything whatsoever. If you told me to tell you every night when I got home and made it back, to me, it tells me you are being over protective. Remember, I'm not aiming to offend, but giving you a raw answer.

Therefore because I've seen both ends of the scale, my recommendation is:
1. If you are going to leave, don't do it until she is back, and you both have a face-to-face conversation. Leaving now would be a hard sell should she come back and wonder why you aren't there. I'm sorry, but I still feel that a breakup goes better when you both are able to talk to one another.

2. If you are going to stay, then the best thing you can do is talk, and have an open mind about what she says. Let her know you are uncomfortable with her going out and doing this (don't accuse her; just let her know you're only trying to look out for her). Also, this will be the hardest thing to do: But trust her. Trust that she knows her limits, and what is acceptable.

-foss

You can go out with co-workers without getting smashed and passing out. I would venture to say there are other reasons she is not texting than passed out, none of which are good.

You should not have told her to stay in or you are leaving though. I would have just laid out my expectations in a relationship, if she has different ones, I would have simply ended it.

originally posted by: fossileraIf you told me to tell you every night when I got home and made it back, to me, it tells me you are being over protective. Remember, I'm not aiming to offend, but giving you a raw answer.

If you don't WANT to let your sig other know you got home safe after getting smashed in an unknown place you really aren't ready for a serious relationship.

I would never have to tell my wife, she just would. She doesn't have to tell me, I always let her know.

If you are not worried then you don't care. If you don't feel the need to text then either you think they don't care or you don't care.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04



If you are not worried then you don't care. If you don't feel the need to text then either you think they don't care or you don't care.

Though that may have some truth in some cases, it is not systematically true.

If you are not worried, it might be because you have a great deal of respect and recognition of the other, and trust in their abilities.

I do not worry a lot about my grown kids, nor about my husband, because they are awesomely good at making judgement calls and choices, and knowing how to take care of and defend themselves. I know their morals and ethics, I know their individual personalities, and I have confidence in them.

I call when I just want to hear their voice and feed our bonds- not because I am worried about them.


The problems arise when two people have been raised with two different understandings of what love is and what is a "loving" act and what isn't.

My husband was raised with a mother (and aunts) that worry incessantly, call many times a day, and repeat their concerns that he is making mistakes, that he might lose his job, or die, at any moment, because of a bad decision.
They grill him many times a day on what he is doing, what is he thinking of doing in the next ten minutes, and start giving panicky advice on what they disagree with.
No matter that he has proven, over his fifty years, to have extremely good judgement!!!
At this point, he's starting to not pick up the phone if he has already talked to her once that day.

He grew up understanding- this is what "loving" is. You assume the loved one is a retard who is likely to trip on their shoelaces at any moment and die of brain trauma on the street, and you spend your day doing whatever you can to try to stop that from happening.

I grew up understanding that love is allowing the loved one some freedom and confidence in them and their capabilities.
Love is affectionate reaching out, but only because humans have need for affection and exchange with others.

It seems to me sometimes that the excuse "I am worried about them being okay" is just a way of outwardly denying the truth- "I just have need to hear their voice, to have a sense of contact and affection with them."
As if placing the "neediness" or "weakness" on the other is somehow more flattering for the ego... at the expense of the other, of course.

Maybe I'm wrong. But even though we are wildly different on this issue, it works for us (for more than twenty years) precisely because that is how I interpret it.

When away, I call him and tell him, "I love you, I miss you, I am thinking of you"
Not , 'I am okay, I survived a day in the park, no one raped or robbed me, I had no car accident, and I effectively turned away any man who showed interest in me". I don't call as often he would, but I consider it quality over quantity- real sincerity instead of false excuses.

That seems to be enough for him. He still calls to tell me he is alive and arrived at his destination without being hit by a car or choking on a peanut. If it makes him feel better, whatever. I just respond with my true feelings- I love you, I miss you, I am thinking of you when you are not here". He knows my thoughts are not of him splattered and bloody on the highway, nor engaging in wild sex with someone else- they are of him smiling in the sun, having fun, and us having wild sex!


I suspect you can deal with any differences between you, OP, but it depends upon how dedicated you are to it.

originally posted by: Bluesma
If you are not worried, it might be because you have a great deal of respect and recognition of the other, and trust in their abilities.

What ability do you refer to that comes into play when a person is so drunk they can not send a text message and pass out?

I do not worry a lot about my grown kids, nor about my husband, because they are awesomely good at making judgement calls and choices

Such as not becoming so drunk they can't operate a phone and so drunk they pass out?

So let's assume you have a daughter who is every night getting so wasted they pass out. No worries still?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

What ability do you refer to that comes into play when a person is so drunk they can not send a text message and pass out?

If you really believe that is what they are doing, I would say, you shouldn't be with someone you believe does that.
If your experience with them so far is that they DO do that, you have seen it with your own eyes, then you have to decide whether you can handle being with someone who has bad judgement (and a drinking problem).

On the other hand, if you have seen that it is not something they tend to do, you might consider that they were not so drunk as that (because they know their limits),
That they were capable of sending a text message, but were subconsciously rebelling against perceived over protectiveness,
And that "passing out" is sometimes loosely used to mean "tired and chose to go straight to bed", instead of total loss of control of the body and consciousness.

I do not worry a lot about my grown kids, nor about my husband, because they are awesomely good at making judgement calls and choices
Such as not becoming so drunk they can't operate a phone and so drunk they pass out?

They do not do that. I know them well. If my husband was prone to doing that, I wouldn't have married him. If my kids were prone to doing that, I would have gotten them into rehab or AA a long time ago.
On the other hand, I think one of my kids is very likely to use that excuse when there are other reasons he did not call- like that he just was caught up in socializing and didn't want to turn his attention from the others present to call his mom, stirring up mockery about being a mommies boy, for example.

So let's assume you have a daughter who is every night getting so wasted they pass out. No worries still?

LIke I said, off to AA and rehab with her!
Boyfriend? Goodbye, find a different mate, we are not compatible.
Just find out first if you are correct that this is what is happening before making that choice.
Part of good reasoning and judgement processes.

originally posted by: Bluesma

If you really believe that is what they are doing, I would say, you shouldn't be with someone you believe does that.
If your experience with them so far is that they DO do that, you have seen it with your own eyes, then you have to decide whether you can handle being with someone who has bad judgement (and a drinking problem).

We are talking about the situation the OP is in.

My girlfriend is at a trade show out of town and has been closing the bars down and getting drunk every night with clients and co workers. I've asked her to text me after being out so I know she made it back to hotel safe. After 4 nights and zero texts because she has passed out

On the other hand, if you have seen that it is not something they tend to do, you might consider that they were not so drunk as that (because they know their limits),
That they were capable of sending a text message, but were subconsciously rebelling against perceived over protectiveness,
And that "passing out" is sometimes loosely used to mean "tired and chose to go straight to bed", instead of total loss of control of the body and consciousness.

Then they are a douchebag for knowing someone loves them and is worried and they don't care enough to say "home safe" before they sleep.

They do not do that. I know them well. If my husband was prone to doing that, I wouldn't have married him. If my kids were prone to doing that, I would have gotten them into rehab or AA a long time ago.
On the other hand, I think one of my kids is very likely to use that excuse when there are other reasons he did not call- like that he just was caught up in socializing and didn't want to turn his attention from the others present to call his mom, stirring up mockery about being a mommies boy, for example.

How about you go back and read the OP, as that is what we are discussing.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
We are talking about the situation the OP is in.

Yes. The op has been told by her that she is so drunk every night that she passes out, and that is why she didn't contact him.

My response to that is-

1- Is this a behavior you have seen her do often when she is with you? Is it a habit of hers?
Include your previous knowledge of her in assessing what is happening.

2- If this is not usual behavior for her, consider that her explanation, (and your interpretation of it) might NOT be the whole and true story. That humans have complex psychologies, and there are sometimes various more or less conscious feelings and thoughts that influence what we do. There are other possible reasons for the lack of a call. Some have been brought up, like a resentment at lack of confidence and over possessivity. She might not be completely honest at this time about that feeling (maybe even with herself).
When she comes back, some deep and sincere dialogue between them needs to happen before any judgement is made about what is really happening, and what decisions should be made between them.

That will be most likely to be constructive if the Op hasn't made up his mind, all alone, that he knows everything about her and what is going on ( it is necessarily the worst). Coming home to hostility is not going to open the lines of sincere communication.

Then they are a douchebag for knowing someone loves them and is worried and they don't care enough to say "home safe" before they sleep.

-Or they might be a human with all kinds of mixed and ambiguous feelings?
Like appreciate that they are loved (and loving), but frustrated with feeling possessed and distrusted?

The biggest thing I have found in having a long term relationship is being willing to accept that the other person is not perfect- they will have things like mixed feelings and confusion. They will sometimes go into denial about their objections to you, because they don't want to "rock the boat" or hurt you.... and that will cause those objections to act out in passive aggressive ways instead.
You have to be willing to be receptive to even those objections and negative feelings without overreacting, in order to encourage them to acknowledge those type of feelings, instead of push them into passive aggressive mode.

They need to learn to trust you too! That they can show you everything, without you falling apart or jumping to wild conclusions about who they are. This is nurtured and grows through experience.

How about you go back and read the OP, as that is what we are discussing.

I did. I answered a couple times in this thread. My disagreement here was with the assertion that there is only one way to interpret certain acts- I know for a fact, through direct experience, that the same acts can potentially have other interpretations and reasons. Jumping to conclusions, based upon what strangers say on the internet, is not, in my opinion, a very wise choice.

The input from strangers on the internet can be extremely helpful in relationship matters, because the diversity of experiences and views can open your mind to possibilities you never considered. But when that is done, the most important part is communication and exploration with the person in question.

a reply to: Bluesma

No call is needed. A 5 second "home safe night" text would do. Anyone who refuses to do that when they are able to is not ready for a relationship or just a terrible person. Anyone who finds he idea of sending a 5 second text saying they are home safe after a night of drinking to be "too possessive" ... see above.

originally posted by: leemachino
She works in the medical field and she doesn't do sales. I don't see this as part of the job.

A WHOLE BUNCH of really dense posters missed this part. She's NOT in sales, the wining & dining for making client pocket books open easier doesn't fly.

IMO? She's getting wasted & likely spreading her legs every night. JMO from watching friends during their sowing of wild oats years, ruining relationship after relationship because they weren't serious abut it to begin with. A person (of either gender) satisfied in their relationship, secure in it, doesn't do this ish. Immature little children not ready for serious relationships/commitment do that.

Kick her ass to the curb, you deserve better.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Bluesma

No call is needed. A 5 second "home safe night" text would do. Anyone who refuses to do that when they are able to is not ready for a relationship or just a terrible person. Anyone who finds he idea of sending a 5 second text saying they are home safe after a night of drinking to be "too possessive" ... see above.

All I say is that ARE other possibilities than that, and he should refrain from making firm judgement just yet.
One part of having good judgement and decision-making capabilities is making sure you gather all the information you can before doing so.


I know I have had girlfriends who counselled me that my husband was surely sleeping around because he was working late sometimes, and I was stupid to not be sure of that and leave him.

One of those actually went as far as to go to his office one night when he was working late to try to catch him in the act and "prove" it to me. She caught him slaving over his work with his male colleagues, to get the paper ready for publication in the morning. She was ashamed of herself and apologized.

Well meaning friends can make mistakes too, by coming to conclusions without gathering info.

Again, one possible explanation is passive aggressivity- not sending that text out of repressed anger and resentment.
That wouldn't make her a terrible person, it would make her someone who struggles between two different feelings-
not wanting to hurt him, and wanting to stay in the relationship,
and also wanting him to trust her, and leave her some of her independence.

This sort of internal struggle (and the resulting passive aggressivity) can be "cured" in the future if she has experience with him showing he can handle hearing that she has these needs for trust and confidence and freedom.
She would be more likely to take the time to call in the future. People often don't do things precisely because they feel pressured to do so. Take the pressure off, there is less resistance.

-Another thing to take into account in her explanation-
In the Anglo-saxon society, "I was drunk" is currently a very popular and widely used excuse for any behavior that one regrets, or that is disagreable to another.
It sometimes is not totally true. A person may exaggerate how drunk they were, in order to deny the feelings or motivations they don't want to admit openly.

originally posted by: Bluesma

All I say is that ARE other possibilities than that, and he should refrain from making firm judgement just yet.
One part of having good judgement and decision-making capabilities is making sure you gather all the information you can before doing so.


I know I have had girlfriends who counselled me that my husband was surely sleeping around because he was working late sometimes, and I was stupid to not be sure of that and leave him.

There are two possibilities. She is lying or telling the truth. If she is telling the truth judgment can be made. If she is lying judgment can be made.

Your scenario where if he is telling the truth everything is fine has no bearing. You trusted him, no problem. If he trusts her that she is being honest then he knows all he needs to know. If she is lying he knows all he needs to know. Lying about being drunk so you don't have to send a 5 second text is BEYOND messed up.

As far as the excuse goes ... she is not saying she messed up because she was drunk, so that has no bearing. She told him she was going to GET drunk. You really keep going way off topic with things that have no bearing on the situation in your desire to claim there must be more going on and that he should keep trying.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

There are two possibilities. She is lying or telling the truth. If she is telling the truth judgment can be made. If she is lying judgment can be made.

Agreed. I advise finding out first though.

If he trusts her that she is being honest then he knows all he needs to know. If she is lying he knows all he needs to know. Lying about being drunk so you don't have to send a 5 second text is BEYOND messed up.

I disagree, obviously. Trust takes time to develop in a relationship. It can take years, and how quickly it develops depends upon the specific experiences you have together.

Also, the subject of "lying" is not so clear cut- since someone can be lying to themselves, so actually believe they are not lying to the other.
We have a subconscious and an unconscious, which complicates the very simplistic world view of the ego.
Life, and people, are not all black or white, good or bad.

As far as the excuse goes ... she is not saying she messed up because she was drunk, so that has no bearing. She told him she was going to GET drunk. You really keep going way off topic with things that have no bearing on the situation in your desire to claim there must be more going on and that he should keep trying.

There are other possibilities, I insist. You cannot say you know this person so well as to make such a judgement. Neither can I. We can only offer some of our various experiences and knowledge as possibilities.

I've also known people who do and say things to their loved ones in order to provoke them to worry or feel jealous, out of a desire to witness that they are needed. They don't think it out and consciously decide to manipulate that way, they usually have deeper childhood issues involved, and conditioned behaviors they are not aware of.

There is always "more going on" - that is a given for me. Humans have deep layers to their being. Even if she is sleeping around and cheating, there are deep reasons for that behavior.
How learning what those are can be beneficial to the OP is-
He could maybe discover what attracted him initially, to a woman with those specific types of internal "issues".
He could use that knowledge of himself to be more aware when meeting other potential mates in the future.

Relationships, whether they last or not, can all be vectors and opportunities for personal growth.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "keep trying". If you mean keep trying to get her to adhere to his demands- no, I don't think so.
I think he should

leave it alone, put his judgements on hold, and when she comes back sit down for a discussion with her.
He should be honest about how he feels, and be receptive to what she has to say in response.

THEN they should make a decision to end or continue the relationship.

Not come to all the conclusions and judgements right now based upon what some strangers on the net told him was definately, surely and unequivocally, going on in her head, heart, and bed.

That's just common sense.