Why usually tolerant British people like myself are becoming more intolerant and xenophobic!

a reply to: kosmicjackI knew the racism card would be used at some point and I let them get on with it, I haven't said anything racist in my first post or second. In fact, one could say the only racist comments are the comments I have copied and pasted from the Independent. That is what I call racist "white trash" etc. Racism works both ways. I have too many friends who aren't white or British to be called racist. In any event Islam isn't a race, white people are muslims too! Plus all humans have different sides of their personality. Things aren't always so clear cut. Its only 2 weeks ago I was in a shop owned by muslims and ended up sticking up for the shopkeepers when some school children (mixed race) were shouting "Muslim scum" etc. I was the only person in the shop who stepped in and told them they had no right speaking to anyone like that. I actually felt sorry for the shopkeepers because they seemed hesitant to do anything about it until I stepped in and once I did they plucked up the courage to throw them out. That is the different side of me, not everything is clear cut, it never is!

a reply to: grandmakdw

That is a bunch of politically correct garbage.

It is not madam - it is intended to protect humanity - and that includes you. Everything is not about your special interests, your prejudices - or your fears

All this calling out of political correctness - to my mind - is just another attempt to control speech and bend it to serve the interests of of few over the many

There will be more exoduses, more refugees - and more integration in the future

You want to create a new kind of political correctness - but one that adheres to your rules. One that allows you to disregard the hardship because you are afraid of what's different

Free speech is a difficult concept for some - but it means that if I have the right to express myself - so do you

It doesn't get any simpler than that

These fit men who refuse to fight are behaving like pigs feeding at the trough of plenty, while the real men who stay and fight are led to the slaughter because of the cowards.

What some of us object to is this insidious and repetitious painting of an entire culture - one ugly comment at a time - until people begin to buy into the idea that some people are not human - like you are human

Nasty. It shows an ugly and lazy kind of thinking I think. No matter how politely - or arrogantly expressed - it deserves to be countered. It positively demands to be countered. Some of us will speak up - like it or not

That's my opinion - and you can kiss my PC ass

originally posted by: asen_y2k
What are you guys talking about? Whites becoming a minority? 87% of UK population is white! Whites will become a minority maybe 500 years in the future and by then most people on Earth will be mixed race anyways.

That may be true except there's one thing you didn't consider. The birth rate of non-muslims is below what's needed to sustain the economy in 16 years while the birth rate of muslims is on average 4-5 kids. With these statistics, analysts predict 2030 will be the tipping point for a Muslim Majority. Children of the faith are indoctrinated once they hit the floor and the fear of apostasy is ingrained their whole lives. Isn't that right?

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: anxiouswens

Put simply...cuz I have work to do...


And ISIS et al...got nothing to do with religion, just like the looters and pillagers of every nation past, crusades and all, religion is as always, simply an excuse, for the worst of us to do the worst things.

If that were true every Muslim country would be sending troops to wipe out this nest of extremists but they don't. Heck, they won't even accept legitimate war refugees. It would appear Islam at large approves of ISIS and their actions.

Ahh...yes...The Western peasants of old failing to challenge the crusading Knights....Kill them all..

War and fear mongering...but here is the thing...apart from moral judgment, it just doesn't work. It has no utility in this equation.

There is an end game to ISIS et al. but it isn't on the battle field. I am not opposed to controlling the fever, but to think that aspirin cures the flu is false.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Sort out the good from the bad? You are asking Westerners to do what Muslims themselves will not.

Hiya animals,

Invasions by the British, Americans and Russians. Constantly being used as a foreign battleground for super powers. There are more guns in some of these countries now than people by a sickening margin. Various factions being used as pawns by Saudi, Pakistani, British, Russian, and American intelligence.

There for the grace of God ... if Pinke was born in Afghanistan or Iraq I don't think I'd have been able to change much.

my 2 cents....Islamic culture is the opposite of ANY western culture....the only reason(s) I see them moving to western countries and NOT CHANGING over to live a western lifestyle, is to make money, and/or to eventually breed out westerners over the course of a few dozen generations, all the while maintaining entirely separate Muslim neighborhoods.
I wonder how many Muslim countries would welcome with open arms western Christians in the tens of thousands, and allow them to set up their own neighborhoods, and maintain their western customs regardless of what the Muslim people think.

Help me understand open borders, sounds like a good idea, living together in harmony, however,

Why is this harmony so one sided ?

Are other nations borders open to us and to our culture?

No, in fact Christians are being slaughtered in the M.E.

There has to be a tie that binds, a nation divided against itself cannot stand, it all seem like a plot to bring down the west as far as I am concerned.

And it won't be hard to do, we lost the tie that bound us together.

We have lost our grip on reality, becoming weak and immoral and drug addled.

originally posted by: Pinke

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Sort out the good from the bad? You are asking Westerners to do what Muslims themselves will not.

Hiya animals,

Invasions by the British, Americans and Russians. Constantly being used as a foreign battleground for super powers. There are more guns in some of these countries now than people by a sickening margin. Various factions being used as pawns by Saudi, Pakistani, British, Russian, and American intelligence.

There for the grace of God ... if Pinke was born in Afghanistan or Iraq I don't think I'd have been able to change much.

if you were born in those countries, you'd be wearing a burka, keeping your mouth shut, and your only future goal would be a family.

a reply to: kosmicjack



There was nothing in the OP that even hinted at racism/bigotry. It was, as KJ said, an almost apologetic statement of concern.

Anyone getting bigotry out of that might want to take a look in the mirror.

originally posted by: FlySolo

originally posted by: asen_y2k
What are you guys talking about? Whites becoming a minority? 87% of UK population is white! Whites will become a minority maybe 500 years in the future and by then most people on Earth will be mixed race anyways.

That may be true except there's one thing you didn't consider. The birth rate of non-muslims is below what's needed to sustain the economy in 16 years while the birth rate of muslims is on average 4-5 kids. With these statistics, analysts predict 2030 will be the tipping point for a Muslim Majority. Children of the faith are indoctrinated once they hit the floor and the fear of apostasy is ingrained their whole lives. Isn't that right?

It is estimated in the US for whites to be a minority
in 2043.
www.newsmax.com...
america.aljazeera.com...

In the UK the estimate for whites to be the minority is 2066
www.telegraph.co.uk...

So the UK will within 50 years be majority
people of color
and whites will be the minority
and the culture will change drastically
starting now and settle down to an
entirely new culture within 50 years.

I'm not going to say "all is not well", but I'm certainly not going to say "all is well".
We really don't know yet, but I certainly plan to proceed with caution until we DO know.

There certainly are viable reasons to be concerned.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'd say that letting the actions of a few dictate your opinions of the whole is listening to propaganda. I refuse to let anyone try to tell me that most or all muslims are secretly terrorists. They may have different cultures which have values that I don't agree with, but that doesn't mean they are inherently bad people.

The reason why this debate has become so contentious is because no one recognizes they are arguing apples and oranges. Including yourself. It's not the "people" per se, but it's the ideology that freaks us out. Look, the Muslim culture in ME countries is so diametrically opposite to those in the nations they are migrating to. They're not born and raised as Western/UK Muslims that integrate well in Christian societies. If I may be so bold to this analogy, it is akin to introducing wild wolves into a kennel of domesticated dog breads. There are no "grooming" or prior steps to condition such a transition. There are no integration classes, deprogramming classes or etiquette classes.

Example: You brought up Muslims "no-go" zones. That is just a buzzphrase invented by the media to call a ghetto a bigoted name. Surprise! Ghettos tend to be intolerant of outsiders. Being Muslim has nothing to do with it.

I'm not so sure you're being honest with yourself. I see you're from the US. Have you looked into these zones? I see the media is not supposed to talk about it but I've seen otherwise. How much time have to spent to play your own devil's advocate?
And ghettos are not intolerant of outsiders unless there's territorial pissings. I live in a city with a high population of indo-canadians with a large percentage of Sikh and Punjab with 30% of the SE ethnicity in Surrey, BC and guess what? There's absolutely zero problem with them other than gangs. There's a heavy multicultural gang activity here but there's definitely no no-go zones here. I would say to the contrary, UK is not so lucky. At least to what I've seen.

Even entertaining the idea that Islamophobia doesn't exist is bigoted.

What? Actually, the meaning of phobia is to say there's an irrational fear of something. So to say someone is islamaphobic means there's nothing to fear of islam. You're championing that exact fact, it's an irrational fear of Muslims. Now you say in one sweeping statement that this false fear or claiming it doesn't exist is bigoted? Everything is racist or bigoted to you it seems unless you completely strip your ethnic identity. The fear, is that damn ideology. And it's not a false fear either, it's a legitimate one because their ideology is a direct contradiction with ours.

a reply to: anxiouswens

First off i never talked about immigration in germany, so thanks for behing off topic.

Anytime in history that theres has been massive immigration the same crap as been said.

Rinse and repeat my friend.

a reply to: Krazysh0tI don't believe there will be a majority of muslims in the UK. However, I can see massive problems if the numbers keep increasing. As can be seen from this article a high concentration of muslims are in London. Muslim women have more children as is shown in the birth rates this year. So certainly years from now with higher birth rates the muslim community will begin to expand. Therefore if things carry on they are now there will be larger areas that are going to come under the control of fanatics. I think in time there could be a breakdown in society and civil war at some point.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

There are already no-go areas in parts of London. Just last year there was a problem with the Mayor in Tower Hamlets, again where there is a high concentration of muslims living.

www.standard.co.uk...

Next year is the new Mayor for London will be elected. Sadiq Khan is a muslim and is standing for that post.

Over time more and more muslims will take places of power. Which is fine in itself. I have no problem with that. However, I worry about whether they are moderates are as was the case with the Mayor of Tower Hamlets he had some leanings which were far from moderate.

The problem is we have high concentrations of muslims in London and then further afield in places like Bradford, Oldham etc. If the population was scattered throughout the Country and integrated that would be fine but in the past that hasn't happened which is why we now have no go areas. There have been instances in London where females have been approached by radicals and told they shouldn't be wearing short skirts etc because they are in a muslim area.

Same with Birmingham and the Trojan horse schools. In fact there has just been an article about this today in Daily Mail. Not propaganda this has been an investigation going on now for a couple of years which relates to Islamic extremists trying to take control of some of the schools in Birmingham

www.dailymail.co.uk...

I note you are from the USA and so I don't know how much you are aware of with regard to this Country. Plus you can't compare the demographics of the USA to UK. We are so much smaller in population and land mass.

a reply to: anxiouswens

How would the apologists on this thread
react to being told that they had to wear longer skirts
or that they had to raise their necklines
or risk a rape that would be considered their fault
for being such a tramp
as is happening to women daily in the UK?

Will the male apologists tell their women
to be sensitive to the Muslims and cover
their arms, legs, chest and hair?
because it is the politically correct thing
to do to be sensitive to the Muslim culture?

That is all over the news from the UK and
other countries.

Would the apologists say, yes we should cover
our legs and raise our necklines and not go
out in public without a male chaperone
to be sensitive to the Muslim culture?
That is the politically correct and sensitive
way to handle a district, town, area
if the majority are Muslim?


Because by 2066 that could be the norm
in the UK if current trends continue,
according to analysts
www.telegraph.co.uk...
This is not paranoia, it is a coming reality.

a reply to: anxiouswens

The England you want to preserve and protect no longer exists

America doesn't exist in quite the same way some people would prefer for it to remain forever

The world changes - always has - always will

These people - are in your country for a reason. You might no longer care about that reason because it's easier to dismiss than your immediate anger and discomfort

No doubt - some of these people might have preferred to stay in their native lands - the way they existed before some other people showed up and displayed some behavior they didn't find acceptable

The changes are going to keep coming. It's happening all over the world - South America, Africa, Asia...people moving from one set of circumstances to another - hoping to improve their lot

It's been decades and decades of living off the backs of undocumented workers in my country - and we're still bitching about them even as we make our profits off their labor. They're here for a reason - and we hate them. We hate the Muslims. We hate anyone that doesn't fit into a nostalgic (if unrealistic) picture of our most beautiful and perfect home

It happened here with many other kinds of immigrants - they were hated too - for their culture, their religions, their poverty. All assimilated now - tax paying, property owning voting citizens with prejudices of their own

Your OP is very polite

What are you calling for? What are you willing to do to be rid of these people? What movement are you willing to join?

What are you willing to say out loud?

Your words have consequences

originally posted by: jimmyx
my 2 cents....Islamic culture is the opposite of ANY western culture....the only reason(s) I see them moving to western countries and NOT CHANGING over to live a western lifestyle, is to make money, and/or to eventually breed out westerners over the course of a few dozen generations, all the while maintaining entirely separate Muslim neighborhoods.

Yes...Just like the Chinese and the Irish did in the USA!

a reply to: anxiouswens

This is the thing that worries me. The UK has long been one of the most sophisticated regions in the world. In thinking, in behavior and manners, in politics and education, (and as a women I must mention fashion, of course). And now we have people from the most unsophisticated areas of the world joining in their world. Is a joining possible? It will take generations for people who have had their grossly different lifestyles to learn the ways of the UK. And do they wish to?

And in the meantime?

That's what worries me. I want everything to work out. But how long will it take? What happens until then?

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: anxiouswens

This is the thing that worries me. The UK has long been one of the most sophisticated regions in the world. In thinking, in behavior and manners, in politics and education, (and as a women I must mention fashion, of course). And now we have people from the most unsophisticated areas of the world joining in their world. Is a joining possible? It will take generations for people who have had their grossly different lifestyles to learn the ways of the UK. And do they wish to?

And in the meantime?

That's what worries me. I want everything to work out. But how long will it take? What happens until then?

According to analysts
www.telegraph.co.uk...

it is going to take about 50 years for the transition to be complete
and then another culture will dominate the UK
entirely.

While, IMHO, there is cause for concern about the impact these mass influx's are having on English, or other nations, culture, remember this, invading, for lack of a better term, cultures change, too, in the process.

As an example, China has been invaded/conquered more than a few times in its long, long history, yet it remains uniquely Chinese in every way that matters. Invading cultures are as changed by the conquered as the conquered are by the invaders.

Will it be the same as it ever was? No. But a culture that doesn't change is doomed anyway. All one can do, is try to make it as painless as possible.

Who can, with any hope of accuracy, say what a homogeneous culture will look like in ten years, much less 100, or even longer...?