Creationism SHOULD be taught in school. ( alongside science theories! )

a reply to: deadlyhope

Wow......much respect OP

I don't think I've ever witnessed this before.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Ok, I apologize. I am still in the process of reading the posts on page 3, so I haven't gotten there yet. I appreciate your honesty

a reply to: Prezbo369

Well my original thought process was that no theory on the start of the universe is unanimous amognst anyone, not even scientists - so I assumed we should teach other theories that are held by a lot of people


But some people of ats came by explaining the scientific method, and while science is not perfect, it's based on observations, what we can see, what we can experiment with.


It may have taken me a day or two to process, and stop lashing out, but I can agree that within a science class, we should be teaching things that include being able to use the scientific method.

a reply to: Barcs

It's all good. I forget if I even announced it within this thread, or just another one. I think I did within this thread, though.

I had my reasons to debate my original thought, but others have brought more logic and reasoning to the table, and I now agree - I still hold my own religious and spiritual beliefs, but these beliefs have no place in a science class.

Perhaps other classes that dive into such topics anyways - mythology, cultural studies, history and the like will cover such topics, but it's not scientific, I can now agree to that.

a reply to: PurpleDog UK

but yo cant divorce politics/economics from your life, from your birth you are
given a number then you work pay taxes get charged interest on money thats created
out of thin air (fiat) and then die . You live under the illusion that you are free
that sure sounds like relgion and fairy tales to me - no god need apply

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Someone made a post recently about mind control being far easier than we assume. That we operate under these false pretenses and use words like freedom.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Teaching the unproven as fact? That's called religion buddy. Science doesn't work like that

Then why do you ridicule creationism? There is no imagined creation of the Universe that can be called scientific theory, yet here you are ridiculing people for believing God did it.

Just month later, and you already forgot that we have witnessed that there was another species among humans, called Homo Neladi, who together with rest of our ancestors forms our human branch of evolutionary tree??

You see, examples like this, we have in huge numbers, to the point that sometimes evolutionary scientist can't decide where to place certain animal/plant.

Creationism and rest of magic really has not place in science classroom. We can talk about evolution of religion in history class, with rest of mythologies... and that is about it...

I believe that all beliefs have their place in school but the teachers shouldn't pick a side and ridiculize the rest.
They should be taught as being beliefs and not scientific truth but I believe that witholding information is just like using propaganda.

Broader minds can deal with broader subjects and I find it important to at least know a little about what is contrary to our beliefs. Cherry picking is not how we build critical thinking minds.

I don't know why people would be against the idea of our children at least knowing that some people have different beliefs...I don't fear being wrong, I fear being ignorant.

Of course, I'm not the type of person that wants a population of heartless slave robots.

originally posted by: theMediator
I believe that all beliefs have their place in school but the teachers shouldn't pick a side and ridiculize the rest.
They should be taught as being beliefs and not scientific truth but I believe that witholding information is just like using propaganda.

Broader minds can deal with broader subjects and I find it important to at least know a little about what is contrary to our beliefs. Cherry picking is not how we build critical thinking minds.

I don't know why people would be against the idea of our children at least knowing that some people have different beliefs...I don't fear being wrong, I fear being ignorant.

Of course, I'm not the type of person that wants a population of heartless slave robots.

You see, I agree that people should know about different religions, but not as part of science or as alternative view on science.

Only reason people get ridiculed is because they try to push their belief in science classroom - and that should NEVER be allowed.

I don't care that someone decided to stupefy their children by teaching them fairy tales as facts, nothing I can do to protect those kids from brainwashing, but I would object to my kids being forced to learn something no one ever provided any evidence for as fact. There is no benefit in learning myth as science...

You don't teach someone about earth by stating that some people still think earth is flat, or that sun orbits earth or that earth is inside huge snake belly... yet some people believe each of those... Belief has nothing to do with science, unless is subject to be observed by science, for example evolution of belief.

a reply to: Pardon?

Science in the 3 main fields Chemistry, Physics and Biology obviously. As to religion/creationism/mysticism i imagine they belong in the religious studies dept.

I would not say religions have not evolved in the past 2000 odd years, they just became obsolete or somewhat superfluous down to the application of logical thought over superstition. And that's only really in the past 500-600 years from our western perspective given the dark age/Spanish Inquisition and other religiously oriented persecution toward free thinking individuals.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Creationism should NEVER be taught in a science class as it is NOT SCIENTIFIC THEORY. It is theeological or philosophical in nature. The SCIENTIFIC METHOD can not be applied as there is no way to test or disprove the assertions of creationism with empirical evidence and repeatable experiments. While I agree that many advances have been made in quantum physics and that the quantum consciousness theory is very compelling it would be a grave insult to science to teach creationism as a viable scientific alternative to evolution. It is an extremely insulting notion that creationism and evolution are somehow scientific equals just because a large number of people may subscribe to the BELIEF of creationism.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
You don't teach someone about earth by stating that some people still think earth is flat, or that sun orbits earth or that earth is inside huge snake belly...

I disagree on that!

It's ok to talk about those beliefs as long as it's specified that they aren't the ones accepted by science. I'm pretty convinced that portraying different views and discussing them is what's the best for the development towards a critical thinking individual.

There is no true knowledge without the knowledge of good and evil.

originally posted by: cuckooold
This articulates my point of view far better than I can:

well done, one picture is worth a thousand words

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Pardon?

Science in the 3 main fields Chemistry, Physics and Biology obviously. As to religion/creationism/mysticism i imagine they belong in the religious studies dept.

I would not say religions have not evolved in the past 2000 odd years, they just became obsolete or somewhat superfluous down to the application of logical thought over superstition. And that's only really in the past 500-600 years from our western perspective given the dark age/Spanish Inquisition and other religiously oriented persecution toward free thinking individuals.

I think this will become the ONE BIG BREAKTHROUGH in human evolution....living our lives without the dictates of make-believe god(s) and the people that desperately cling to them...let's remember that being a priest back then in those dark days of humanity was a pretty good job....you were well liked, respected, didn't physically have to work hard,and food and shelter was often provided for your console and kindness.

a reply to: theMediator

Yes but that stuff is covered in other places called churches, temples, synagogues, etc.
Schools are for teaching non esoteric information.
Plus, in this day and age, we have the internet...you can learn all kinds of crazy stuff on that thing...

a reply to: deadlyhope

Can't imagine it would hurt to layout what it is. What percent of the population would need to believe in a theory to qualify to teach it?

a reply to: jimmyx

I don't completely discount the notion of there being some form of intelligence behind or involved in our evolution I just think our notion of religion is somewhat warped considering the self-serving control constructs at the heart of them. Look at it this way if God does not exist we will essentially build our own once the singularity occurs.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I think he was quite civilised compared to many responses I've seen about the subject. No where in physics is there a theory that whole planets just popped into existence, but there is no reason not to theorize that everything was created by a collective conscious energy(higher being), Much like the energy we use to ponder such things, but it took billions of years for this energy to create our universe as it is now.

The higher being part really isn't the problem as like you said that can be explained scientifically. The real problem with creationism is the 7000 yr old universe theory and no evolution theory. Unless all of our existence is a hologram/pc program there is no way everything coalesced within millennia.

Also creationism is a very small part of Christianity and not as widespread as you think.

originally posted by: theMediator
I disagree on that!

It's ok to talk about those beliefs as long as it's specified that they aren't the ones accepted by science. I'm pretty convinced that portraying different views and discussing them is what's the best for the development towards a critical thinking individual.

There is no true knowledge without the knowledge of good and evil.

There is no benefit of learning few more fairy tales and pretend they were true...

Good and evil - product of your religion that supposedly has monopoly on morality...

And don't get me wrong, it is OK to talk about your fairy tale in church or with your friends, but there is no single benefit learning about it if you not gonna also say how great suffering humanity had thanks to the same religion. Oh wait, we do learn about that in history class... Also that we created many other religions before those that somehow survived (very bloody survival) for all of those years...

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: namelesss

I've studied the beginning of the universe..

First hand?
Were you Here?
Who's opinions did you 'study', and have you none of your own?

I simply won't concede that a topic this vast should be handed over to only one group of people, when there's millions of ways the universe could have came about, including ways we don't and can't understand. Perhaps laws and theories that exist now, didn't then. Is it ignorant for me to make assumptions about what could have been so many billions of years ago?

When did I ever suggest that any topic should only be handled by one group of people?
On the other hand, though, I wouldn't give a thought to a janitor doing my eye surgery, there is only one group that I'd allow to do that; doctors, surgeons.
The folks who know the most, have actual experience!
And then I'd decide for myself 'who' gets to do it.
Thinking for myself...

To teach 'creationism' is to teach fantasy, imagination, and is unworthy to be taught as a real scientific theory, because it is not.
A 'beginning' and 'end' of the Universe can only exist in the imagination!
'Time' exists in the imagination!
With no 'time', beginning and end is impossible!

Should leprechauns being found at the end of the rainbow also be taught?
Should Atlas be taught as holding the world on his shoulders?
Forget gravity and orbits?
There IS a place in school to teach the notion of 'creation', a class about people's imaginary 'beliefs' throughout history, only so as one learns to recognize a belief, the imaginary, from the non-imaginary.
Not recognizing that is insanity!