U.S. Report Urges End to 'Conversion' Therapy for LGBT Youth

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Gryphon66

I guess that really depends on how you weigh the emotional toll of your parents outright hating and abandoning you versus the emotional toll of your parents' misguided love enacting tons of physical pain on you.

Perhaps.

1. Parents who are supposed to love you and take care of you abandon you.

2. Parents who are supposed to love you and take care of you abandon you to mental and physical torture.

The kids that I have known that experienced #2 not only have the sense that Mom and Dad left them, but find it very difficult to ever have any sense of trust in any human being ever again.

Kind of like a comparison between force-feeding someone feces and force-feeding them feces with broken glass in it.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yea, both situations are horrible, but I still think it comes down to the individual what they'd consider to be the worse treatment. And there really isn't much point in having a back and forth spat over which method of parent neglect is more harmful when they are both rather devastating emotionally and physically.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yea, both situations are horrible, but I still think it comes down to the individual what they'd consider to be the worse treatment. And there really isn't much point in having a back and forth spat over which method of parent neglect is more harmful when they are both rather devastating emotionally and physically.

Okay. Agreed.

Why are we then?

I see things just as damaging as this going on with some parents thinking that the answer to their child's dilemma is genital mutilation. That is very far worse than what is in the op and should be addressed along with the therapeutic treatments.

Has anyone done any research on the line between child abuse and a parent's religious freedom to teach their child as they wish?

I'm sure that (and I've seen evidence for) the fact that these "parents" occasionally get arrested due to actual physical abuse ... but ... is the consensus that we really have to have laws explicitly forbidding this "conversion therapy" crap to start acting against these people to protect the kids?

I haven't had the heart to look into that feature of the issue.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Gender identity crisis is a mental disorder and sexuality is a choice. These are truths that cannot be disputed and arguments against such facts are served only to force through political agendas by various groups wishing to social engineer for selfish gain.

And why can't they be disputed? Because you are afraid that you may have to admit you were wrong if proven so?

PS: When did you choose to be straight?

There is no fear from me of being proven wrong because there is no proof to the contrary unless it is truth that has been manipulated.

The question of choice that you wrote is, I think, a strawman tactic designed to entrap the less acute in your own argument.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I see things just as damaging as this going on with some parents thinking that the answer to their child's dilemma is genital mutilation. That is very far worse than what is in the op and should be addressed along with the therapeutic treatments.

Any physical abuse of children should be dealt with in extreme prejudice.

However, why try to diffuse the discussion about a particular type of abuse by bringing in another?

Do you agree that "conversion therapy" is the equivalent of child abuse?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Has anyone done any research on the line between child abuse and a parent's religious freedom to teach their child as they wish?

I'm sure that (and I've seen evidence for) the fact that these "parents" occasionally get arrested due to actual physical abuse ... but ... is the consensus that we really have to have laws explicitly forbidding this "conversion therapy" crap to start acting against these people to protect the kids?

I haven't had the heart to look into that feature of the issue.

That is a good question.
But I have always felt parents with extremely fat kids are just as guilty of abuse.
Hard to believe anybody thinks you can beat the gay out of a kid.

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Gender identity crisis is a mental disorder and sexuality is a choice. These are truths that cannot be disputed and arguments against such facts are served only to force through political agendas by various groups wishing to social engineer for selfish gain.

As a staunch Muslim who knows not one single LGBT person, what would you say my agenda is when I assert that your asseveration is absolute bollocks?

originally posted by: Tindalos2013

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Gender identity crisis is a mental disorder and sexuality is a choice. These are truths that cannot be disputed and arguments against such facts are served only to force through political agendas by various groups wishing to social engineer for selfish gain.

And why can't they be disputed? Because you are afraid that you may have to admit you were wrong if proven so?

PS: When did you choose to be straight?

There is no fear from me of being proven wrong because there is no proof to the contrary unless it is truth that has been manipulated.

Translation: "All evidence that disagrees with me has been tainted by corruption."
Translation2: "I'm not open to alternative ideas that conflict with my preconceived biases."

The question of choice that you wrote is, I think, a strawman tactic designed to entrap the less acute in your own argument.

And this is a deflection from answering the question. You know you didn't choose to be straight, but if you were to admit that then it would highlight a flaw in your argument that a gay person chooses to be gay. This despite all the negative social stigmas around it. Like why would you choose to be gay if a sizable chunk of the population is going to outright and unashamedly hate and discriminate against you?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I see things just as damaging as this going on with some parents thinking that the answer to their child's dilemma is genital mutilation. That is very far worse than what is in the op and should be addressed along with the therapeutic treatments.

Any physical abuse of children should be dealt with in extreme prejudice.

However, why try to diffuse the discussion about a particular type of abuse by bringing in another?

Do you agree that "conversion therapy" is the equivalent of child abuse?

NO it would be completely stupid to label all clinical engagement on this issue to be deemed as abuse. The best we should hope for is too just round out the edges. With everything there is a right way and a wrong way. Some programs may be too extreme but that does not negate the whole.

It is all relative but if you expect me to believe that mental abuse is less of a problem than physical abuse then you would be failing.

The do gooders are very quick to demonize a whole process based on extremely small percentage of cases.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Thank you Bluntone22 ... I believe that's my first star on your posts. LOL.

Yeah, letting your kids become obese particularly when there is no underlying medical condition is certainly abuse.

When you look into the eyes of a child/young person who has gone through any of this, any version of abuse or abandonment ... I can tell you first hand, regardless of other beliefs, you will despise anyone who could do that to their own child.

a reply to: deadeyedick

There is no "right way" to try to fundamentally change a child's nature into something you find more socially acceptable.

If you are implying that ANY of the "gay conversion therapies" are successful or worthwhile, why mince words?

Come out and say you're in favor of abusing children. I doubt anyone here would be surprised.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Define abuse cause I clearly stated that not all aspects of this is abuse but that their is some abuse going on.

It sounds like that if someone tells a confused kid that there is a right way to make babies and a wrong way to try to make babies then you all consider that abuse.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
NO it would be completely stupid to label all clinical engagement on this issue to be deemed as abuse.

If two gay parents had a heterosexual boy and wanted him to be gay, would it be abuse to send him somewhere to have "treatments" (mental OR physical) to discourage his attraction to girls and encourage his attractions to boys? Would ANY clinical engagement to change his sexuality to gay be considered abuse?

It is all relative but if you expect me to believe that mental abuse is less of a problem than physical abuse then you would be failing.

As a person who was sexually abused and raped, let me tell you that the mental effects lasted YEARS beyond any physical pain, and still exist to this day. The physical body heals on its own. The "invisible wounds" are MUCH harder to address and overcome.

The do gooders are very quick to demonize a whole process based on extremely small percentage of cases.

See my question above.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Gryphon66

Define abuse cause I clearly stated that not all aspects of this is abuse but that their is some abuse going on.

It sounds like that if someone tells a confused kid that there is a right way to make babies and a wrong way to try to make babies then you all consider that abuse.

Nope, no reason to "define abuse."

The subject here is not confusion on the part of kids, nor is it a matter of basic biology.

I will not deflect this discussion by dealing as I would like with your apologies for child abuse.

I find your comments utterly disgusting even as you provide a perfect example of the very heart of the child abuse we are discussing in this thread.

a reply to: Gryphon66

There is no "right way" to try to fundamentally change a child's nature into something you find more socially acceptable.

I thought all you believed in evolution and that science can guide such over time with introducing small changes into an environment. What would make you think that a situation of adaptation could not be forced into someone's environment in order to get specified changes.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Gryphon66

Define abuse cause I clearly stated that not all aspects of this is abuse but that their is some abuse going on.

It sounds like that if someone tells a confused kid that there is a right way to make babies and a wrong way to try to make babies then you all consider that abuse.

Nope, no reason to "define abuse."

The subject here is not confusion on the part of kids, nor is it a matter of basic biology.

I will not deflect this discussion by dealing as I would like with your apologies for child abuse.

I find your comments utterly disgusting even as you provide a perfect example of the very heart of the child abuse we are discussing in this thread.

If you truly believe what you just typed then highlight for me how I abuse children so that I can stop.

Here's a very decent article with actual statistics on the reprehensible, vile, abusive practice of "reparative therapy."

The Lies and Dangers of Reparitive Therapy

In contrast, there is ample evidence that societal prejudice causes significant medical, psychological and other harms to LGBT people. For example, research on the issue of family acceptance of LGBT youth conducted at San Francisco State University found that "compared with LGBT young people who were not rejected or were only a little rejected by their parents and caregivers because of their gay or transgender identity, highly rejected LGBT young people were:

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Gryphon66

Define abuse cause I clearly stated that not all aspects of this is abuse but that their is some abuse going on.

It sounds like that if someone tells a confused kid that there is a right way to make babies and a wrong way to try to make babies then you all consider that abuse.

What strawman BS. It's not about making babies....It's about freedom to chose one's own lifestyle.