BREAKING : Vladimir Putin says Russia will fight for the right of Palestinians to their own state

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

And right on cue to disparriage jews. DJ was right on. They are STILL DECENDANTS of the same man and as such related by blood even if its distant.

All modern human beings are related.

Mitochondrial Eve, look it up.

That Will Be Quite Enough...



The name calling, baseless accusations, and assorted other nonsense will cease.

This will be the last warning. Any further personal nonsense will result in, at the least, temporary post bannings, or permanent ones.

You all are, supposedly, adults. How about we start acting like it, and discuss the issue as it should be discussed, and needs to be discussed.

Now then, let's try this again.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Grenade

Yes it does. WHEN its talked about after. ANd DID i claim that as mine? no. AM i making money off it? no. FREE USE.

How did what I post not show COllusion between Arabs and nazis? You didnt see that part on th e bottom? I was responding to a post you made earlier about how th e Arabs are so Innocent.

Don't think i made a blanket statement as to the guilt of either side. All children are born innocent, even the ones in Palestine, contrary to your views.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

And right on cue to disparriage jews. DJ was right on. They are STILL DECENDANTS of the same man and as such related by blood even if its distant.

All modern human beings are related.

Mitochondrial Eve, look it up.

I knew that already. Im talking about ETHNICITIES though. they change over time due to region,life,and environment. ALthough we all are the same Race.

My comment to Charlie is that ABraham was related to the hebrews progenirator and by blood was a hebrew. ANd his trying to say they are not the same is off kilter. Mos t people understand it as Abraham wa s hebrew,and it eventually turned into Judaism later on.

a reply to: Grenade

Look I was talking about the grown ups in charge. Not children ok? the same type of adults in charge of RUssia like Putin. Children worldwide are innocent i agree. Putin needs to not step into this but he sees it as tying up a loose end his KGB leaders failed on.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Grenade

Look I was talking about the grown ups in charge. Not children ok? the same type of adults in charge of RUssia like Putin. Children worldwide are innocent i agree. Putin needs to not step into this but he sees it as tying up a loose end his KGB leaders failed on.

True, seems to be a requirement that your soul can be bought and sold if you intend to run a country. Again, i don't see Putin or Russia as a savior. However reckless and disproportionate military action on a civilian population to eradicate a small demographic of extremists is intolerable and counter-productive.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Grenade

I think this rant explains why you think enlightenedservant makes sense. His hatred is just a tad more refined than yours. Israel exists, deal with it. The Arabs need to work with Israel, not against it, or there will never be peace in the region.

Sorry, but you lost all credibility with me. You agreed with me that many Israeli Jews are actually anti-Semitic because they discriminate against Ethiopian Jews, Maghrebi Jews, and Sephardi Jews. You agreed with me that many of Israel's policies are anti-Semitic because they discriminate against other Semites, like the Palestinians, Bedouins, and Arabs in general.

Then you turned around & called me a "Jew hater" for rejecting Zionism. Even when I showed that most non-Israeli Jews also reject Zionism & more than 1 million Haredi Jews generally reject Zionism, you still claim that being anti-Zionist is somehow hating Jews.

It is impossible to have a rational conversation with someone who can make a statement like this. The Bible and Qu'ran are fiction. Israel and Palestine have a right to coexist. If the Arabs put half as much effort into building their own state as they have put into destroying Israel, they would have no need to proclaim a "Day of Rage." Seriously, is that how a mature people behave?

And you're obviously trolling. The word "Semite" has no meaning if not looked at religiously and linguistically. If they believe they are the descendants of Sem/Shem, then it's you who is against them for denying them the heritage they believe in. Why do they even use the word if they don't believe its meaning applies to them?

In fact, why would they use the words "Israel", "Jewish", or "Yahudah" if they considered the Bible fake? The Old Testament is just a version of the "Jewish" set of holy books called the TaNaKh. If you really think it's fiction, then those words have no meaning whatsoever. If anything, I think you're waaaay over your head on this topic. You don't even know the basics, which is why I'm going to just assume you're trolling from now on.

You have just opened the door for a lengthy exposition that will conclude with the Jews in Israel not really being Jewish. Some people hate Jews so much they try to rob them of their very identity.

(facepalm) If you supposedly believe the Bible is fake, then why do you care if someone is considered Jewish or not? There is no "Jewish", "Tribe of Judah", Israelites, Kingdom of Israel, Kingdom of Judea, Solomon's Temple/Wailing Wall, Semite, or Abrahamic religions if the words in the Bible are false.

If anything, I'm starting to think you're the one who actually rejects Jewish history & heritage, and are posing as a Zionist to conceal your true intentions. The whole point in Zionism is to return to the "Holy Lands" that God supposedly promised to the Israelites. How can you really accept Zionism & its supposed purpose if you think their God is fake; if you think their God never promised them any land because the scriptures that claim He did are fake; and even the Israelites & Tribe of Judah themselves are fake because the scriptures that explain their founding & history are fake?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

God has nothing to do with the current situation in the ME. Blaming war on god is hypocrisy personified.

Amazing in the 21st century we still allow our world to be shaped by archaic religious texts with no real relevance to modern day ethics.

If this whole thing is Gods fault then i reject God in all forms. Humans are to blame for the current worldwide chaos, just easier to blame it on a being that doesn't even exist.

originally posted by: Christosterone
The good news is that Russia has a pathetic army...and an even more pathetic work ethic(as a society)...and that's to say nothing about the poor innate, inherent IQ of its alcohol imbibing populace....

Once we get a new president with a backbone, America will [again] put that pathetic socialist parasite in its place...

-Christosterone

Are you serious? Stereotype much there much guy?

A pathetic army? That had a major role in world wars, fought America in the cold war which is not clear of a Victor?

What you say about Russian people.. calling them stupid drunks?

Wtf has this site came too when we can bash entire populations. You must feel tough talking # as a keyboard warrior.

GARUNTEE your a not a tough cookie, and wouldn't speak that to a true Russian.

On the flip side, America obese, homeless, more prisons then anyone, more wars in modern time then anyone, more stupid en mass then majority of countries I've been too....

I think you need to leave America and sober up bud. Your obviously a little loose in the head and to judge the Russian people, who in my experience are great people, is just silly and immature.

Also most my Russian friends have white collar jobs, classy people, who take care of each other. Can't say the same for most Americans, especially those keyboard warriors which by Russian stance today, is the only active military in America!

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: enlightenedservant

God has nothing to do with the current situation in the ME. Blaming war on god is hypocrisy personified.

Amazing in the 21st century we still allow our world to be shaped by archaic religious texts with no real relevance to modern day ethics.

If this whole thing is Gods fault then i reject God in all forms. Humans are to blame for the current worldwide chaos, just easier to blame it on a being that doesn't even exist.

I didn't say it was God's fault. It's clearly the fault of humans. God isn't making them do anything. Just showing the difference between God & people using their interpretation of God to justify their actions.

However, they believe the "Greater Israel" region is their "promised lands". They use their religious texts and rabbinical writings as "proof" that God promised that land to them. That's why they're not seeking a "safe haven" or "refuge" among allied nations. (look up the term "Greater Israel" to see what I mean; and look up the lands the modern Israel occupied after each of their wars)

Even the Haredi Jews who are against Zionism believe that land is theirs religiously. They just believe their Jewish Messiah is supposed to fight off their enemies, recreate the Kingdom of Judea, and rebuilt Solomon's Temple. They're mostly against Zionism because it skipped all of their prophecies, rituals, and procedures (in other words, they believe Zionism is doing it wrong so it's destined to fail).

Zionism & most Israeli Jews don't even want Solomon's Temple rebuilt because it would recreate the social classes that existed in those days. They just want to "reclaim" Greater Israel for themselves, regardless of who already lives on that land. It's a really crazy situation since the other people living there are mostly Muslims, Christians, and Druze.

Don't lower yourself to that level Elementalist, think he was trolling.

I don't think anyone is in doubt that Russia has a very advanced and highly capable military.

Anyway, I'm Scottish and we're all drunks wouldn't get too upset.

Fancy a vodka?

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: enlightenedservant

God has nothing to do with the current situation in the ME. Blaming war on god is hypocrisy personified.

Amazing in the 21st century we still allow our world to be shaped by archaic religious texts with no real relevance to modern day ethics.

If this whole thing is Gods fault then i reject God in all forms. Humans are to blame for the current worldwide chaos, just easier to blame it on a being that doesn't even exist.

I didn't say it was God's fault. It's clearly the fault of humans. God isn't making them do anything. Just showing the difference between God & people using their interpretation of God to justify their actions.

However, they believe the "Greater Israel" region is their "promised lands". They use their religious texts and rabbinical writings as "proof" that God promised that land to them. That's why they're not seeking a "safe haven" or "refuge" among allied nations. (look up the term "Greater Israel" to see what I mean; and look up the lands the modern Israel occupied after each of their wars)

Even the Haredi Jews who are against Zionism believe that land is theirs religiously. They just believe their Jewish Messiah is supposed to fight off their enemies, recreate the Kingdom of Judea, and rebuilt Solomon's Temple. They're mostly against Zionism because it skipped all of their prophecies, rituals, and procedures (in other words, they believe Zionism is doing it wrong so it's destined to fail).

Zionism & most Israeli Jews don't even want Solomon's Temple rebuilt because it would recreate the social classes that existed in those days. They just want to "reclaim" Greater Israel for themselves, regardless of who already lives on that land. It's a really crazy situation since the other people living there are mostly Muslims, Christians, and Druze.

Sorry, think you mis-interpreted me, i was trying to state that the only claim the Zionist Jews have to Israel is a religious text and try to justify their behavior as Gods will.

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: enlightenedservant

God has nothing to do with the current situation in the ME. Blaming war on god is hypocrisy personified.

Amazing in the 21st century we still allow our world to be shaped by archaic religious texts with no real relevance to modern day ethics.

If this whole thing is Gods fault then i reject God in all forms. Humans are to blame for the current worldwide chaos, just easier to blame it on a being that doesn't even exist.

I didn't say it was God's fault. It's clearly the fault of humans. God isn't making them do anything. Just showing the difference between God & people using their interpretation of God to justify their actions.

However, they believe the "Greater Israel" region is their "promised lands". They use their religious texts and rabbinical writings as "proof" that God promised that land to them. That's why they're not seeking a "safe haven" or "refuge" among allied nations. (look up the term "Greater Israel" to see what I mean; and look up the lands the modern Israel occupied after each of their wars)

Even the Haredi Jews who are against Zionism believe that land is theirs religiously. They just believe their Jewish Messiah is supposed to fight off their enemies, recreate the Kingdom of Judea, and rebuilt Solomon's Temple. They're mostly against Zionism because it skipped all of their prophecies, rituals, and procedures (in other words, they believe Zionism is doing it wrong so it's destined to fail).

Zionism & most Israeli Jews don't even want Solomon's Temple rebuilt because it would recreate the social classes that existed in those days. They just want to "reclaim" Greater Israel for themselves, regardless of who already lives on that land. It's a really crazy situation since the other people living there are mostly Muslims, Christians, and Druze.

Sorry, think you mis-interpreted me, i was trying to state that the only claim the Zionist Jews have to Israel is a religious text and try to justify their behavior as Gods will.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. And yeah, it's a crazy situation all around.

What you just typed is also why many American right wing Christians are so staunchly pro-Zionist. Their denominations' interpretations have them believing God wants them to blindly obey & protect modern Israel. That also explains why people like Michelle Bacchman lately said the South Carolina floods were because we've "turned from Israel". And here are 2 links that show what I'm talking about from scripture:

What does the Bible say about when nations turn against Israel What does the Bible say about protecting Israel

They also think they're living in the End Times, and they think they need Israel's participation in their prophecies to basically trigger the 2nd Coming of Christ. So it doesn't matter to them if the Palestinian Christians, Lebanese Christians, or Syrian Christians get crushed in the process.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Dr. Tomer Persico is a fellow at the Elyachar Center for Studies in Sephardi Heritage at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, and teaches in the religious studies program at Tel Aviv University.

The disaster that Judaism won't survive

...

When our best friends, the countries with which we like to boast that we “share values,” increasingly perceive Israel’s Judaism as an antithesis to the state’s democratic character and a threat to the liberal approach and equality of rights to which Israel committed itself in its Declaration of Independence – it appears that we are closer than ever to having the Jewish tradition relegated to the abhorrent status of Communism in the past and of Salafi Islam in the present. We are witnessing Judaism being tarred-and-feathered, and the charges will stick to it more than any anti-Semitic calumny in the past, simply because this time no blood libel will be involved.

In November 1975, when Israeli President Chaim Herzog tore up United Nations Resolution 3379, he was protesting the equation of Zionism with racism. Forty years later, and after an election campaign in which Herzog’s son was defeated in his bid to become prime minister, the Western world is becoming used to thinking that Judaism is tyranny.

Most tragic of all, perhaps, is that not only internationally but in Israel itself the distinction between the state’s Jewish character and its democratic regime is growing more acute. According to data of the Israel Democracy Institute, in the past five years there has been a consistent decline in the proportion of Israel’s Jewish citizens who consider the fusion of democracy and Judaism important. If in 2010, 48.1 percent of Jewish citizens replied that the two elements are equally important to them, in 2012 this fell to 41.9 percent, and in 2014, it was 24.5 percent. At the same time, the proportion of Israeli Jews for whom the Jewish element is the most important rose to as high as 38.9 percent; 33.5 percent of the respondents opted for democracy as most important.

The story here is not only the fact that for so many, Judaism “outranks” democracy in importance, though that is a disturbing situation in itself. The crux of the matter is that for the majority of Israel’s citizens the belief that the two of them can exist simultaneously is becoming increasingly impossible. The tragedy, then, is that, as in the Western world, in Israel, too, more and more people consider “Judaism” and “democracy” to be mutually exclusive entities.

The debacle here is above all cultural: It concerns the failure of Israeli society to forge a Judaism that is substantively democratic, a Judaism that self-evidently does not contradict democracy but, on the contrary, buttresses it. Instead, Judaism is being shaped as a violent ethnic identity, a Spartan religion of a nation of masters, an atavistic, nationalist entity, which instead of conducting a dialogue with modernity is choosing to divest itself of liberal traits it had already internalized, including some that were always ingrained in it.

This cultural debacle will become a historical disaster if, heaven forbid, Israel truly becomes exclusively “Jewish” in the future. Democracy will obviously suffer in that case, and along with it the population between the Jordan and the sea. A terrible period will ensue, but as with every past tyranny, this one, too, will collapse. When that happens, the true tragedy will be revealed: It will emerge that for the whole world, Judaism has become synonymous with apartheid and occupation, violence and oppression, despotism and subjugation.

Judaism has survived many disasters. This is one disaster it will not survive.

originally posted by: Grenade
Don't lower yourself to that level Elementalist, think he was trolling.

I don't think anyone is in doubt that Russia has a very advanced and highly capable military.

Anyway, I'm Scottish and we're all drunks wouldn't get too upset.

Fancy a vodka?

I could fancy a shot or two brother!

Thanks for the input, this site is seriously becoming a disgrace to intellectuals and balance minded people truely looking for facts and real human debates
It's a becoming a playground for the mindless... there is too much serious things happening in the world the past decade for us to be pointing figures and talking bad about eachother...

Thanks again Scottish guy,

Cheers

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Grenade

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: enlightenedservant

God has nothing to do with the current situation in the ME. Blaming war on god is hypocrisy personified.

Amazing in the 21st century we still allow our world to be shaped by archaic religious texts with no real relevance to modern day ethics.

If this whole thing is Gods fault then i reject God in all forms. Humans are to blame for the current worldwide chaos, just easier to blame it on a being that doesn't even exist.

I didn't say it was God's fault. It's clearly the fault of humans. God isn't making them do anything. Just showing the difference between God & people using their interpretation of God to justify their actions.

However, they believe the "Greater Israel" region is their "promised lands". They use their religious texts and rabbinical writings as "proof" that God promised that land to them. That's why they're not seeking a "safe haven" or "refuge" among allied nations. (look up the term "Greater Israel" to see what I mean; and look up the lands the modern Israel occupied after each of their wars)

Even the Haredi Jews who are against Zionism believe that land is theirs religiously. They just believe their Jewish Messiah is supposed to fight off their enemies, recreate the Kingdom of Judea, and rebuilt Solomon's Temple. They're mostly against Zionism because it skipped all of their prophecies, rituals, and procedures (in other words, they believe Zionism is doing it wrong so it's destined to fail).

Zionism & most Israeli Jews don't even want Solomon's Temple rebuilt because it would recreate the social classes that existed in those days. They just want to "reclaim" Greater Israel for themselves, regardless of who already lives on that land. It's a really crazy situation since the other people living there are mostly Muslims, Christians, and Druze.

Sorry, think you mis-interpreted me, i was trying to state that the only claim the Zionist Jews have to Israel is a religious text and try to justify their behavior as Gods will.

Sorry about the misunderstanding. And yeah, it's a crazy situation all around.

What you just typed is also why many American right wing Christians are so staunchly pro-Zionist. Their denominations' interpretations have them believing God wants them to blindly obey & protect modern Israel. That also explains why people like Michelle Bacchman lately said the South Carolina floods were because we've "turned from Israel". And here are 2 links that show what I'm talking about from scripture:

What does the Bible say about when nations turn against Israel What does the Bible say about protecting Israel

They also think they're living in the End Times, and they think they need Israel's participation in their prophecies to basically trigger the 2nd Coming of Christ. So it doesn't matter to them if the Palestinian Christians, Lebanese Christians, or Syrian Christians get crushed in the process.

HEre si what most people like pat robertson get confused. First of all they are talking about the Israel that comes after because they were to originally wait till Jesus return to bring back israel. The current one will be done away with. With any luck the surrounding countries will let ordinary israelis leave un harmed i f it comes to it. although id make sure to stop poloticians.

See we have a problem that was self created by the League of nations allowwing the creation of It. BUT whats done is DONE so we have to grin and bear it. Its almost as if th e leauge of nations was told to do it as to usher in th e apocalpse faster.

Still it will be theirs later none the less.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

And right on cue to disparriage jews. DJ was right on. They are STILL DECENDANTS of the same man and as such related by blood even if its distant.

How did I disparage them? Jews aren't the only Hebrews. Fact. Arabs are the largest group of Hebrews by population. Fact. Jews aren't the only Semites. Fact. Arabs are the largest group of Semites by population. Fact.

Why are facts supposedly bad? Or more importantly, why don't you accept any of the other Hebrews & Semites as being Hebrews & Semites? That's the same ridiculous mindset some Americans have where they only accept certain demographics as being "real Americans".

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

A simple reason this could have some truth to it is because it doesn't make sense to be hyper aggressive against anyone not of their tribe when everyone around them isn't of their tribe ("Jewish" simply means "membership in the Tribe of Judah"). They're literally making enemies out of every one around them, and unnecessarily at that.

That's where the major difference between "being love/respected" & "being feared" comes into play. When you are loved or respected, people will work with you when you are strong & will help you when you are weak.

But when you are simply feared, people will work with you because you are strong but will pounce on you when you are weak. And there are always individuals who will sacrifice themselves to rid their families of the feared bully. That's why every ruler who is greatly feared must also fear the ones they rule. Because there's always the possibility of a revolt, assassination attempt, etc. That's also why feared rulers must constantly make extravagant displays of their power; to keep their subjects afraid of confronting them.

a reply to: yuppa

No, they won't. It's in there. When certain things happen, there is much fleeing for the hills and it seems that the Jerusalem as it is is either conquered or destroyed. But there is no doubt that there is an Israel in the land.

All the prophecies speak of it whatever your take on it is. The time of Jacob's trouble is God's time to deal with the Jews ... all of them. Most will not make it.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: enlightenedservant

And right on cue to disparriage jews. DJ was right on. They are STILL DECENDANTS of the same man and as such related by blood even if its distant.

How did I disparage them? Jews aren't the only Hebrews. Fact. Arabs are the largest group of Hebrews by population. Fact. Jews aren't the only Semites. Fact. Arabs are the largest group of Semites by population. Fact.

Why are facts supposedly bad? Or more importantly, why don't you accept any of the other Hebrews & Semites as being Hebrews & Semites? That's the same ridiculous mindset some Americans have where they only accept certain demographics as being "real Americans".

I didnt say anything about semites though. I was being specific to ISraelis. I also have said this is a Civil war before between relatives in other threads. I guess we should include the arab jews/hebrews as well. ANd as for accepting real americans i accept everyone who legally comes here and who adapts to american culture and life.