Islamic State (ISIS) Claims Responsibility for Oregon massacre. Chris Harper Mercer a Black Muslim?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Compare how this story is being handled to how Dylan Roof was handled. Compare how this story is being handled to how the VA shooting was handled.

Those stayed as top stories for days.

This one despite being far more lethal has fallen off the top to a hurricane that won't even hit the US.

It's the poster child for gun control, so why drop it?

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ketsuko

Anyone who kills in the name of religion is mentally ill.
I do expect an apology from a certain member of ATS for his constant bleating that it was our fault he did this and the fact he was not an atheist like that person wanted us all to think.
He was religious even though his religion was satanism.
Oh and I will blame religion when it is apt to blame religion and blame mental illness when it is mental illness.
I could turn grands argument right around and actually blame religion for what he has done but you and I know he was bat # crazy and his religious beliefs were just an excuse.
Same goes for people cherry picking the bible they use it to hide their own bigotry and failings as a human being.

You sound quite bigoted against Christians and religion in general.

I will not apologize for your imaginings about what you
think I said.

I am quite clear that in my opinion
the hateful rhetoric
against Christians that is pervasive in society
and on ATS, and online in general,
played a role in the shooting.

No apologies, deal with it

a reply to: grandmakdw

Wow so you lie as well.
You have continued to attempt to lay blame at people who question religion time and time again and even do so by telling me I feel guilty? (Oh I don't).
So it has turned out that the guy was a satanist and therefor following a religion care to say sorry to the many you have attempted to blame?.
Hate speech don't make me laugh you wrote the book on it.

Shall I find quotes on another thread showing you where you attempted to blame everyone who questions religion?.
Because there is many.

"This one is on the shoulders of everyone who says the world would
be a better place without religion and religious people. "

"You are just feeling guilty that the anti-Christian rants
on ATS and other sites may have
contributed in some small way to this evil act,
by being the catalyst for the actions of this
person."

So you want to ban free speech eh? you want to ban anyone questioning religion?.
See I can strawman also.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: grandmakdw

I am a totally imperfect and rotten example of a Christian, that's for sure.

I couldn't help but laugh when I read this. You and Me both!

I can go the second mile, and I've fed lots of hungry mouths in my day, and bought more motel rooms for a night or two in freezing weather than I can count.

But when it comes to turning the other cheek, I SUCK!

Thanks. On ATS people are always accusing me of
thinking I am better than they are because I'm a Christian.

Whew! What a misconception.

I know I am an imperfect person who has no right to judge others.
No pretensions there.
Why else would I be a Christian?

As someone said to me once, as an insult:
You know you aren't a good person all the time
that's why you go to church so much. Me, I
am always good, that's why I don't need
Church or God.

Nope, I'm not a good person all the time for sure,
and when I am defending Christians and the faith,
well, God forgive me,
I can be truly cutting to the core of people's
consciences with my words.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
There's a link out there where CNN lightened his skin and reshaped his nose and lips.
This is what passes for news?
Good God were screwed.

Nope. There's not.

Read the thread.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: DelMarvel
I'm going to need a better source than an anonymous quote in People magazine saying the guy did it strictly because of Satanism which is the only source so far on this.

That's the kind of story that sells magazines in the checkout line.

I don't blame you but other news agencies are picking it up.

muddy the water

Well, every source I could find as of a half hour ago was citing People magazine.

And, sure, he could have been on the left hand path. However, I'm not assuming an an anonymous source saying it was "strictly" Satanism is any more right than sources that are saying he had multiple complaints.

CNN has now interviewed a woman who was actually in the room when he started shooting; they say she is the first one who has talked to the press. The eye witness is saying he started shooting before he asked any questions about religion. Her perception was that religion was not a factor.

So this looks like another nutbar who's agenda was to kill indiscriminately.

She also said it was very alarming when he turned the gun on a woman who was in a wheelchair. She was already blood soaked from other victims .

(Can I use the word 'victim' now?) Is it safe?

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: grandmakdw

Wow so you lie as well.
You have continued to attempt to lay blame at people who question religion time and time again and even do so by telling me I feel guilty? (Oh I don't).
So it has turned out that the guy was a satanist and therefor following a religion care to say sorry to the many you have attempted to blame?.
Hate speech don't make me laugh you wrote the book on it.

Shall I find quotes on another thread showing you where you attempted to blame everyone who questions religion?.
Because there is many.




"This one is on the shoulders of everyone who says the world would
be a better place without religion and religious people. "

"You are just feeling guilty that the anti-Christian rants
on ATS and other sites may have
contributed in some small way to this evil act,
by being the catalyst for the actions of this
person."

So you want to ban free speech eh? you want to ban anyone questioning religion?.
See I can strawman also.

Feel free to comb my writings with a fine tooth comb
and post here where I said that anyone questioning religion
should be banned
or is evil or whatever.

Go for it!

Questioning is not the same as saying
all religions should be wiped from the earth
or all (whatever religion) the earth would be better off without them

Make sure the post has a phrase like you claim I said
that "questioning religion" is .....

Because I don't believe that at all. Questioning is great.

Hate speech towards any group causes the kind of thing
we just witnessed with the shootings.

Hate speech, "the world would be better off without ......" that is hate speech
That is not questioning, that is saying one should eliminate a huge group of people from the world.
Or saying that my ideology is far superior to yours and your ideology and the people who support
are a blight on the earth. That is hate speech.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Oh and care to point out where anyone has said on ATS that religious people should be wiped out? because that was another one of your claims.
You are making it up as you go along.
Still I expect you to do the decent thing and apologize to the members you have attempted to blame for this tragedy btw.
but you will not will you.
Tell you what thats it dude.
I will not waste my time on a liar and a person who uses this tragedy to attempt to make others feel guilty when they have no reason to feel guilty.
So please don't respond to me again.

Obviously the major cause of this was mental illness. That is the starting point. A sane person does not plan and then commit a mass murder. The killer was a disturbed young man that from all reports did not have any friends or a girlfriend. So he felt isolated and alone. And he probably thought that would never change.

Anything else comes second. How he got his guns. What religion he was or wasn't. If he hated a particular race or religion. All his choices and beliefs that led up to the tragedy were most likely influenced by his mental illness.

So mental illness and how to treat and deal with it should be the first thing we talk about. But that does not mean we should ignore everything else. When the dust settles and more facts are available. If it turns out that he did target Christians or even just those that are religious. Then it should be talked about.

That fact might not be relevant to non Christians but I am sure it is something that Christians are worried about. Just like if it turned out that he was asking if people were gay or straight and then shooting those that were gay in the head and those that were straight in the leg. I am sure some of us who are passionate about lgbt causes would want to talk about it and condemn him for being anti-gay.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: grandmakdw

Oh and care to point out where anyone has said on ATS that religious people should be wiped out? because that was another one of your claims.

That is all over ATS, you know it.
Except they say that the world would be better off without Christians, or the world would be better off without Muslims.
When one says the world would be better off without .... you may not take it as a call to wipe people out, but mentally ill folks certainly can see it that way, and one did. Also, what do you think is meant by the world would be better off without Christians or Muslims?
How is that to be interpreted?
What if I said the world would be better off without boymonkies. Wouldn't you worry that an unstable person saying that is dangerous to you?

a reply to: DelMarvel

Do a Google search on it.

www.spiritualsatanist.com...

The left-hand and right-hand paths are a label that refer to styles of magic and occult practices. Left hand path practices are associated with Satanism, Setian, Qliphothic magic, black magic and also, dark paganism. It is compared to Right hand path practices, such as Ceremonial Magick, Qabalah, The Golden Dawn, Rosicrucian, and other forms of angelic magic, or white magic. These labels, of right hand and left hand are a convention of naming that is useful to those within the occult who seek to associate with certain styles of occultism.

It also goes on to say that left hand path beliefs and practices are self-serving and empowering.

The Left, as weak, sinister, strange or odd has had a long history. Those who associate with the left-hand path find it to be a path of personal empowerment. For some comparisons consider how most right-hand path religions or practices often work for the benefit of a god, while the self is denied for the benefit or healing of others. Within the Left Hand Path, the self is god, or the center of consciousness. It can be said that the left hand path is self serving. In right hand path practices the self is often denied in exchange for association with a higher power.

Sorry, but this fits like a glove with some of the things we know. He is said to have been a weak, awkward person who couldn't fit. He seeks empowerment and wants to be a god.

And to further, someone who is a believer and practicing Satanist in the spiritual, believing sense would harbor and antipathy toward those who trend the other way.

a reply to: ketsuko

Just wait until the manifesto comes out. It will be a top story then. Until then, there isn't a whole lot to talk about.

Oh I see another witness has said that his actions weren't really about religion. That makes two witnesses so far, verses only one who said it was about Christianity. See, more facts and eyewitness testimony is needed before we come to conclusions.

a reply to: kaylaluv

If it's the one in the other room, it's hard to be a witness when you never hear anything he said or didn't say.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: kaylaluv

If it's the one in the other room, it's hard to be a witness when you never hear anything he said or didn't say.

Nope, wasn't even counting that one. See Ladyinwaiting's post above.

We always speculate about things on ATS. It's what we do. We speculate about everything. When the facts change, we'll digest those, and move on.

It is looking like religion was not a primary motivator. Until we know for sure, I assume it is alright to refer to the deceased as victims. If it turns out Christianity was a motivation, we can avoid using that word again, and go back to being deflectors and whiners,, and making everything about us.

Just saying.

/Peace out.

And the AP says there are two who said he targeted Christians and one who said it didn't seem so much that way.

Both Boylan and Scroggins said the gunman shot Christians in the head and wounded others, though there was at least one account that said he treated all religions with the same cold response.

"She hears the shooter in front say, 'You, in that orange shirt, stand up!'" Randy Scoggins said. "'What religion are you? Are you a Christian?' He says 'Yes.' She hears another pop, and she hears a thud as he drops to the ground."

Rand McGowan, who was shot in the hand, told his mother it didn't seem the shooter was deliberately targeting Christians.

"It was more so saying, 'You're going to be meeting your maker,' " Stephanie Salas said.

Boylan, 18, was in terrible pain when Harper-Mercer told her to stand. She had been shot through the spine and a bullet was lodged in her back.

"Hey blonde girl," he said, according to her grandmother. "Get up! I want to talk to you!"

Like Scroggins, she played dead and Mercer left her there.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Of course they are victims. Regardless of why he did it, innocent people being shot at are victims.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DelMarvel

Do a Google search on it.

www.spiritualsatanist.com...

I don't need to look it up. Very familiar with the subject.

I'm just not going to jump to the conclusion this was a primary factor based on an anonymous source quoted by People Magazine.

The guy had a lot of stuff posted on his social media, and there are a lot of people who dabble in that or just give it lip sevice who never become mass murderers.

Is this why we haven't heard any info from his manifesto? Surprise...a black muslim extremist targets and kills Christians. Where is Obama and the media to call this what it is??? No where. I understand Obama...he would love to see the USA become a defeated nation and taken over by Islam. But the media?