So far how is everyone voting in the EU referendum ?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The Scots (Scotland) and the Scots Irish or Ulster Scots (Northern Ireland) were the backbone of the British army and indeed the pioneers of America. The Scots Irish were threw into the native American wars on arrival in the promised land, also Generals on both sides of the civil war were Scots Irish.

Hell the first publication outside the USA of the declaration of Independence was published in Belfast, even the Presidential seal of the United States was designed by a guy from Dungannon NI. For such a small country, just take a look at the signatories of the Declaration of Independence and how many were Scots Irish I believe it was eleven.

England? The Scots and Irish practically built the place.

As a traveller who has lived in other European countries, it's makes me laugh how Xenophobic many of the English are. Englands standards of living is very poor (especially in London) compared to Scandinavia and Germany. Nowhere do you get the aggressive characters that you get in England. Germany's borders are basically open and their culture has not changed one bit, instead they have a higher standard of living, their kids go to university without paying any tuition fees, and they get better pay check. There is no CHAV culture among the disillusioned youth.

Unfortunately in the UK, the Sun newspaper and the Daily Mail are the biggest selling newspapers who spew out hateful and spiteful Xenophobia, simply because the EU does not align with Rupert Murdochs political thinking. Which is read among the English (mostly Southern English) who seem to eat it up and regurgitate it out. They end up voting UKIP (which they aren't supposed to), or if they aren't that extreme Tories (the ones the media want in). Murdoch wants as much power as possible, and the EU is a threat to any Corporation who wants a monopoly on something while getting tax cuts or subsidies at the same time. It's why the Tories got into power yet again.

But big business also want us in the EU. A reformed EU.

And that's why we will ultimately stay in the EU. Because the media still dictates our politics. People are sheep. It's also the reason why Scotland didn't get indepedence. The national media ran a fear campaign, even the BBC. And unfortunately fear is what rules our heads in mass. They'll do exactly the same this time as well. With all the big businesses and banks saying we will be fcked if we get out. And all them people who have a massive mortgage, or have just payed off their mortagage, the first thing they will think is the price of their house (another form of enslavement). So they'll choose the safe option which is "best keep things the way they are".

That's why nothing will change.

If all else fails then I would not be surprised to hear rumours or see videos of possible vote rigging. (Like the Scottish independence election). But I doubt that very much. There was way more percentage of people in Scotland that wanted independence from UK than people in the UK wanting independence from EU.

You can bet your house we will be staying in the EU.

originally posted by: redeyeblue
England? The Scots and Irish practically built the place.

I'm sorry, did you just say The Scots and Irish practically built England?

If so, please explain.....

a reply to: redeyeblue

I think you in danger of believing your own propaganda.

The British Empire was built on the back of Britain, which happened to include Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. The army was actually quite small, but highly professional. The Royal Navy was the backbone and the link.

It is no secret that the Battle of Waterloo as a multi-national force, led by an Irishman (the Duke of Wellington). If you look at the order of battle, you will see most of the British regiments were English. The British Empire relied on foreign forces, often raised locally e.g. in India.

It seems to me that some people think the Scottish made the Empire, but were entirely innocent of any wrongs. How convenient. In fact, Britain built the Empire and any wrongs were British, and all credit is also British, shared (as per the Barnett formula) with disproportionate favour to the Scots!

originally posted by: paraphi
It seems to me that some people think the Scottish made the Empire, but were entirely innocent of any wrongs. How convenient. In fact, Britain built the Empire and any wrongs were British.

Yeah, isn't that the truth.

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: redeyeblue

It seems to me that some people think the Scottish made the Empire

LoL they did try to build their own empire and bankrupted their own country because of it.

For some reason they thought the ideal things to take to trade with the locals were wigs and mirrors.

They've been propped up by England ever since and just don't like it.

Funny then that it was Scotland that had to take on a share of the English National Debt as part of the Union.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Funny then that it was Scotland that had to take on a share of the English National Debt as part of the Union.

Why?

If your going to share in public services then you need to pay your own way.

The reply was in response to the post above about Scotland bankrupt (I hit the wrong reply button) .

There wasn't a lot in the way of Public services in the early 1700's, the national debt was mainly war debt.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Three years ago I was very Pro EU. Now I just see it as a failure and cant wait until 2017 so I can vote out for the UK.

My family will vote out.

Thirty five out of thirty five of my friends and colleagues I have asked so far are Voting out.

A village near me that tends to be pro labour voted tory because Millipede was to much of a coward to give them a voice as THEY want to vote out.

It seems were I am the UK wants out!

How does ATS stand?

My company does a lot of business in Europe, I travel a lot there and above all I hate Farage and Call-Me-Dave so much that I would always vote to stay in the EU.

a reply to: Debunkology

Have you ever been on a building site? Irish and Scots on every site and most of the road building crews are Irish.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I know what you mean, I have gone from being very pro-EU to being pretty cynical about it over the last couple of years. However when ever I seriously think about voting to leave I think about Farage (throw up a little in my mouth) and decide I will definitely vote to stay in.

a reply to: Debunkology

The reason I am voting out has nothing to do with immigration so dont call me xenophobic.


I am voting out on a purely political, financial and freedom based reason.

The current EU immigrants can stay as far as I am concerned if we vote out.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: DebunkologyI am voting out on a purely political, financial and freedom based reason.

Now then, what exactly changed you from a fervent EU lover (2012) into an EU hater (2015)? Because though I really try, I can't see much difference between the 2012 and 2015 version of the EU..?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: DebunkologyI am voting out on a purely political, financial and freedom based reason.

Now then, what exactly changed you from a fervent EU lover (2012) into an EU hater (2015)? Because though I really try, I can't see much difference between the 2012 and 2015 version of the EU..?

Why does the fact I changed my mind bother you so much?

The reason I changed my mind is because in 2012 I was willing to give the EU a chance to sort itself out.
Instead its just got worse. The beurocracy has not changed and greece and the euro zone is still deteriorateing. Couple that with the demands for money the EU keeps asking for the UK just because unlike most the EU economys we have sorted ourselves out.

originally posted by: crazyewokWhy does the fact I changed my mind bother you so much?

It does not bother me at all - people change their minds all the time. You are no exception. The only reason I ask is because I wonder how a person that himself says he was a real big fan of the EU in 2012 suddenly turns all against it in 2015. I tend to think that something serious must have happened and I'm simply curious what it was, as I myself haven't really seen any changes in the EU since 2012. It's what it always was ..

The reason I changed my mind is because in 2012 I was willing to give the EU a chance to sort itself out.
Instead its just got worse. The beurocracy has not changed and greece and the euro zone is still deteriorateing. Couple that with the demands for money the EU keeps asking for the UK just because unlike most the EU economys we have sorted ourselves out.

Well, Greece already was an issue in 2012, so that really can't be it, I guess. And it actually did not become "worse" - it's about as bad as it was, not much changed.

The euro zone isn't detoriating either, actually, in 2012 (when you were still a big fan of the EU) things were significantly worse than they are now - we were smack right in the middle of the worst financial crisis, a crisis from which we are now slowly recovering. So, that can't be the reason you changed your mind either, methinks.

So, we're left with the argument that the EU is too expensive. Yes, the UK pays a significant amount of money to be part of the Union. But that's only half of the equasion. It also gets a lot of benefits from its membership. Eight out of ten Confederation of British Industry (CBI) members, large and small, would vote to stay in the EU - and their research suggests that the average UK individual is around £1,225 better off every year from EU membership. So, I guess that can't be the reason for your sudden change of mind either.

So, to me, it looks as if you either try to manipulate things by pretending you were in favour of the EU once - but actually, you never were in favour of the EU ever. Or you speak the truth, in which case you clearly base your change of mind on flawed arguments. Which is exactly what many Brits (and other people too!) do: they base their decisions on sound-bites, flawed arguments and total lack of knowledge.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Debunkology

The reason I am voting out has nothing to do with immigration so dont call me xenophobic.


I am voting out on a purely political, financial and freedom based reason.

The current EU immigrants can stay as far as I am concerned if we vote out.

You couldn't make it up.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Debunkology

The reason I am voting out has nothing to do with immigration so dont call me xenophobic.


I am voting out on a purely political, financial and freedom based reason.

The current EU immigrants can stay as far as I am concerned if we vote out.

You couldn't make it up.

Whats hard to understand that I want to be ruled only from Westminster not brussels.

Its bad enough living under one layer of beurocrates let alone two!

And again its nothing but hypocricy from a scott who wanted independence.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Debunkology

The reason I am voting out has nothing to do with immigration so dont call me xenophobic.


I am voting out on a purely political, financial and freedom based reason.

The current EU immigrants can stay as far as I am concerned if we vote out.

You couldn't make it up.

Whats hard to understand that I want to be ruled only from Westminster not brussels.

Its bad enough living under one layer of beurocrates let alone two!

And again its nothing but hypocricy from a scott who wanted independence.

You missed my point, never mind..anyway. Your imperial masters will be pleased with you. This SCOT would rather have people working for him than ruling over. Each to there own i suppose.

Enjoy Yielding to your Master like the loyal servant you have allowed yourself to become.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

No "this" scot ie you seems to prefer his masters in brussels or worse Berlin.



Unlike you I would rather keep my politicians in my own country were I can at least keep a eye on them.


Also I would rather have one set of "masters" than two, one in England and one brussels.

Scotland should maybe petition to become a province of Germany. You obviously dont want to be part of the UK but to guttless for real independence.