So far how is everyone voting in the EU referendum ?

a reply to: crayzeed

Could you provide a couple of examples of these Far East companies, or any that have threatened to leave if the U.K. leaves the Union?

At a guess, there are plenty of member nations in the EU that have a great need to expand their economies with far lower expenses and regulations than in the U.K.. Likely already left?

Look, I don't question there would be a price to be paid for leaving the union. All swords have two edges.
The point the OP makes, I believe, is that cost would be far higher than leaving would create. he's convinced the Union is destined to fail. I agree.

In that scenario, departing the sinking ship.... first would be the prudent move.

Hegemony, which is becoming more obvious in my opinion, will make me vote to leave the EU.

a reply to: crazyewok
There is a phenomenal amount of anti EU bias in the western media. Given this is ATS it is quite astonishing how gullible people are on this topic but quite willing to ignore the press on other topics. The next time time some UKIP representative complains about how the EU is imposing "chocolate standard" or "banana curvature" or "ice cream definitions" on us go and look at the attendance of our MEP's at the meeting.....and yet they still claimed expenses.

If you don't go to the frigging meeting to decide on standardisation don't bitch and complain afterwards if it doesn't take account of our situation DUH!!! But the press will simply report it as EU imposing it's will !!

EU is far from perfect and is in need of change, especially the banking but hey so is UK banking!, but the EU is the reason we have not been at war with each other since WWII NOT the freaking nukes ! Trade and integration keeps the peace. Separation, ignorance and conflict leads to war.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: crayzeed

Could you provide a couple of examples of these Far East companies, or any that have threatened to leave if the U.K. leaves the Union?

I used to work for semiconductor manufacturer and we had a number of japanese car manufacturers who purchased chips from us. They stated quite clearly, and off the record so sorry no links, that the number one reason for opening car plants in the UK was that we were in the EU. We were chosen over other EU countries because we spoke English which is common as a second language everywhere.

If we pull out of the EU lot's of trade barriers start to appear.

Oh and please don't give me the Norway, free trade line. Norway is a fully PAID UP member of the European free trade area and has to FULLY COMPLY WITH ALL EU TRADE REGULATIONS and yet has NO VOTING RIGHTS.

I hope thats loud enough for the selective deaf ears amongst the anti EU folks.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Not voting is nature's way of self-disqualification. Envision, if you will, the results if all voted....

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Fair enough. You'd vote for it.

I believe myself to be above only economic standards as the deciding factor. A factor, but not the most important.

Being on the other side of the pond and as a result, having slightly different DNA, other factors trump. Liberty is a huge one. Both individual and regional. Increased and increasing centralized power is of major concern. Immigration is also a factor.

More control. less freedom and apparently more than co-incidence, less prosperity.

You haven't addressed the fear/prediction that this union won't work. Isn't that more important than if one or two corporations find the grass greener...?

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Excuse me?? The EU is the reason you haven't been at war with each other??? REALLY?

How long from the end of WWII to the creation of the EU? Any wars with each other in the interim?? I thought not..

A brief nod to the lone super-power might be in order here....thanks much

It's a knotty problem. There are for's and against's. On a personal level, I'm out; I'd like to see a Brexit and have this country stand up by itself - didn't we used be an empire?

If we were voting to join the EU I think it would be a unanimous NO!

Personally, I am interested in the debate. I am undecided.

> I would like to see what changes the EU is prepared to make.
> I would like to see the impact on leaving.
> I would like to see the impact on staying.

The EU has some very good points, but also some very bad points. Only Eurocrats seem comfortable with the way the EU currently works.

Ultimately, in between the polarised extremes (in, or out at any cost), I think there are a lot of people who are undecided. The British electorate are fairly sophisticated, so it'll be interesting.

Im hoping the debate will convince me, I'm really not bothered either way, I don't have strong feelings on the subject to be honest.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

Or not bothering to vote? That is the most apathetic of actions...

Not voting shouldn't necessarily be attributed to apathy.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Three years ago I was very Pro EU. Now I just see it as a failure and cant wait until 2017 so I can vote out for the UK

Here in Scotland the farming industry is so big we need to stay in the EU to get the subsidies that comes with membership.

Scotland needs to stay in the EU. This is what could bring about a second referendum I believe...

I think the real reason it is being pushed now is that (no matter what Cameron says) the Conservatives have hated the EU from day one. The reason for that is that the majority of EU member countries lean more to socialism and liberalism and in cosequence when the conservatives are in the EU they are the small fish in the larger pond, ie. they HAVE TO follow more socialist/liberal governance and they hate that.
But the problem is they are torn. All the big landowners are Tories and they certainly do not want out of the EU as their gravy train would be derailed. The same goes for the Tories other big money backers, they do not want out as their money is generated through foreign partnerships. Therein lies their dilemma, the politicians want out but their backers want in.
The single most hateful thing that upsets them is The Human Rights Act. The only act that gives the ordinary British person any power. Britain and the British people have no written constitution. Please do not bring up the old chestnut "The Magna Carta" which does nothing for the ordinary British citizen. That was written for one purpose only, as a pact between the then king and the ruling barons. Just because the present and past governments have demonised the Human Rights Act by letting the wrong people use it for the wrong reasons they have conned the British public into believing we shouldn't have it.

Out.
We need to govern ourselves not from Brussels.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: yorkshirelad

Excuse me?? The EU is the reason you haven't been at war with each other??? REALLY?

How long from the end of WWII to the creation of the EU? Any wars with each other in the interim?? I thought not..

A brief nod to the lone super-power might be in order here....thanks much

Well the EU traces it origins back to the early 1950's so not that many years really.

The cold war obviously made a European war less likely but I am not sure that being selected as the potential battlefield for the major world war (again) is something that most Europeans should feel grateful for.

The real reason of course for a prolonged period of peace in Europe is that after the destruction of the second world war (which possibly as a first in major conflicts) affected civilians as much as soldiers there really was no appetite for another conflict and it would have been practically impossible for a government in Europe to get the necessary backing of it's population.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
a reply to: crazyewok
There is a phenomenal amount of anti EU bias in the western media. Given this is ATS it is quite astonishing how gullible people are on this topic but quite willing to ignore the press on other topics. The next time time some UKIP representative complains about how the EU is imposing "chocolate standard" or "banana curvature" or "ice cream definitions" on us go and look at the attendance of our MEP's at the meeting.....and yet they still claimed expenses.

If you don't go to the frigging meeting to decide on standardisation don't bitch and complain afterwards if it doesn't take account of our situation DUH!!! But the press will simply report it as EU imposing it's will !!

EU is far from perfect and is in need of change, especially the banking but hey so is UK banking!, but the EU is the reason we have not been at war with each other since WWII NOT the freaking nukes ! Trade and integration keeps the peace. Separation, ignorance and conflict leads to war.

No it's not and I am surprised you actually believe that. The reason we have not been at war, is that the lasting damage of WWII was still strong in many people's memory and Germany wasn't allowed to build arms, but then Germany reunified and they were deemed the perfect example of overcoming differences.

Now they are allowed to have a military and airforce that can be deployed in anger. Of course they are not allowed to build their own arms, but they can buy them from the U.S and the U.K. How F'd up is this world?

a reply to: ScepticScot


I'd agree with that to an extent. Yet, the history of Europe certainly mitigates that view to some extent.

Now add in a military that surpassed any in history and the prospect of having to deal with that issue on top of the 'broke' European nations would kill the chances for conflict....right up until U.S. forces and political will/leadership diminished quite recently and was followed almost immediately by the first infiltration and fighting in the Ukraine since the end of WWII.

Ignoring what that military presence allowed in the development of the EU and the peace for three generations was required to achieve it approaches denial, In my opinion.

Indeed, the monies not spent on militaries by European nations following WWII-as well as the Marshall Plan- allowed for European recovery to occur much quicker than otherwise would have occurred.

Again, just a slight nod of acknowledgement would be sufficient and appreciated......

P.S. Origins of the EU in the fifties? Hmmm. Perhaps the concept. The actual arrival of that concept would not have occurred when it did without the stability that was provided by that dominant presence. But, ancient history and not germane to the thread.

a reply to: crazyewok in this instance I totally agree with you. We should be independent of the EU. That does not mean we can't trade with all the European countries, but we will not have our laws made by them, or the fish in our waters taken straight to another country only to get sold back to us (I have direct experience of this when on a Northern Scottish Isle and was looking to buy prawns straight off the boat, like you could do with other fish, but was told it was not possible as they had to be put straight onto a lorry that takes them to Spain). We would not be liable for the huge input of cash the EU demands annually nor forced to buy X amount of produce from other countries either or be limited to how much of a particular product we are allowed to make/grow etc.
We need to print our own money that is not tied to a loan from a private bank and fill the gaps created by foreign companies when they strop off in a huff at our independence with our own home grown industry. We also need to close the offshore / foreign headquarters loophole that allows companies to set up industry here and pay no or very little tax. Finally we need to take control of our borders, like some other countries do, where you don't get in unless you have an expertise that can't be filled by our own people, you are able to create a business and provide jobs, or you have enough money to sustain living here without governmental help.

Ok rant over.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
What does it matter either way?

Briton already reneged and refused to take on the euro as a currency, so its not like your really apart of the EU anyway.

You can never trust a brit. The quicker we get rid of the commonwealth, the better, as far as I'm concerned. The EU should probably adopt the same mentality, if they know whats good for them.

That's why the Sun never set on the Empire. God couldn't trust the British in the Dark.


oh and IN.