So far how is everyone voting in the EU referendum ?

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Soloprotocol


Scotland pussied out of "independence" and remained part of the UK

Aha so you're one of *those* englishmen, your turd flavoured dig makes sense now, it's all you spout...

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: djz3ro

Ok maybe I shouldn't have been so crude.

But I do queation the intelligence of those that voted out of the UK but want in on the EU.

It's a contradiction.

I question the intelligence of those who cant see we are already part of the EU. We dont want in, we are in, we just chose to make it work and not give Westminster carte blanche over things like HUMAN RIGHTS like they are trying do away with right here right now.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: djz3ro

Ok maybe I shouldn't have been so crude.

But I do queation the intelligence of those that voted out of the UK but want in on the EU.

It's a contradiction.

You mean unlike the Scottish Farmers and landowners who voted No in the Referendum but want to remain in the EU. Shame those same land owners believed the lies of the Better Together camp or we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place...

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: djz3ro

Ok maybe I shouldn't have been so crude.

But I do queation the intelligence of those that voted out of the UK but want in on the EU.

It's a contradiction.

I question the intelligence of those who cant see we are already part of the EU. We dont want in, we are in, we just chose to make it work and not give Westminster carte blanche over things like HUMAN RIGHTS like they are trying do away with right here right now.

You can't make something work that's broken to its very core.

And as for human rights?

Don't make me laugh

The UK did just fine until his blairness signed us up to all the EU claptrap

Hell the it was the UK that had to spend the better part of the early 20th century bailing the idiots out on the continent when it came to tyranny and human rights abuses.

I shall be voting OUT. No brainer.

Like Nigel Lawson says, it's a political set-up rather than an economic one.

It's also a complete anachronism, it came as a direct consequence of WW2 and was initiated shortly after. And nothing to do with economics at all - its purpose, as one poster has already pointed out, was to prevent another European war (because the last two went global). But who in their right mind thinks another major conflict will arise in Europe in this post nuclear age...or that it couldn't be easily tamed by the superpowers? Or that the EU couldn't, ironically, be the cause of such a conflict?

I will be honest and admit that I don't know what the long term economic consequences of leaving would be...though quite why we have to be politically yolked to other European countries in order to continue with world trade escapes me. Other small countries seem to get by in the world of global commerce without the need to surrender national sovereignty.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: djz3ro

Ok maybe I shouldn't have been so crude.

But I do queation the intelligence of those that voted out of the UK but want in on the EU.

It's a contradiction.

You mean unlike the Scottish Farmers and landowners who voted No in the Referendum but want to remain in the EU. Shame those same land owners believed the lies of the Better Together camp or we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place...

Not my fault those land owners were fools


They knew full well the UK was heading to a referendum on the EU.
They choose to remain in the UK despite that.

So forgive me if I don't shed any tears over them.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: djz3ro

Ok maybe I shouldn't have been so crude.

But I do queation the intelligence of those that voted out of the UK but want in on the EU.

It's a contradiction.

You mean unlike the Scottish Farmers and landowners who voted No in the Referendum but want to remain in the EU. Shame those same land owners believed the lies of the Better Together camp or we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place...

Not my fault those land owners were fools


They knew full well the UK was heading to a referendum on the EU.
They choose to remain in the UK despite that.

So forgive me if I don't shed any tears over them.

I certainly wouldn't ask you to shed a tear over it, it does give you an example of why Scotland isn't an independent country right now.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: djz3ro

Ok maybe I shouldn't have been so crude.

But I do queation the intelligence of those that voted out of the UK but want in on the EU.

It's a contradiction.

I question the intelligence of those who cant see we are already part of the EU. We dont want in, we are in, we just chose to make it work and not give Westminster carte blanche over things like HUMAN RIGHTS like they are trying do away with right here right now.

You can't make something work that's broken to its very core.

And as for human rights?

Don't make me laugh

The UK did just fine until his blairness signed us up to all the EU claptrap

Hell the it was the UK that had to spend the better part of the early 20th century bailing the idiots out on the continent when it came to tyranny and human rights abuses.

Dont you dare talk about how the British "bailed" everyone out when it came to human rights and tyranny. Never has there been a more tyrannical and abusing empire than the British empire...Two thirds of the globe will put right on that matter.

Are you for real.?

a reply to: CJCrawley

Yes Nigel Lawson really does speak a lot of sense on the EU membership. It's going to be great to get our country back.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: djz3ro

Ok maybe I shouldn't have been so crude.

But I do queation the intelligence of those that voted out of the UK but want in on the EU.

It's a contradiction.

I question the intelligence of those who cant see we are already part of the EU. We dont want in, we are in, we just chose to make it work and not give Westminster carte blanche over things like HUMAN RIGHTS like they are trying do away with right here right now.

You can't make something work that's broken to its very core.

And as for human rights?

Don't make me laugh

The UK did just fine until his blairness signed us up to all the EU claptrap

Hell the it was the UK that had to spend the better part of the early 20th century bailing the idiots out on the continent when it came to tyranny and human rights abuses.

Dont you dare talk about how the British "bailed" everyone out when it came to human rights and tyranny. Never has there been a more tyrannical and abusing empire than the British empire...Two thirds of the globe will put right on that matter.

Are you for real.?

Can I ask are you for real?

To talk about superior Scottish education but they obviously dont teach history.

Never has there been a more tyrannical and abusing empire than the British empire.

1) Lets get one thing straight, you Scottish, Welch and Irish were marching right along side us English in redcoats across the globe.

2) Compared to the European Empire of France and Spain we were almost saint like. Sure we have a long dirt laundry list but it does not come close to the other European empires. Hell it was Portuguese and the Spanish that started the empires and institutions like slavery!

3) I was talking about the 20th century anyway,

4) I dont remember Hitler being English

5) I dont remember the UK starting either world wars

6) I dont remember the "final solution" being British

7) I dont remember Stalin being English

8) I dont remember the USSR being part of the UK

9) I dont recall the UK having a problem with tyranny of human rights abuses post WW2 before we joined the EU.

....never mind.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Three years ago I was very Pro EU. Now I just see it as a failure and cant wait until 2017 so I can vote out for the UK.

And let me guess: in just 3 years time you will be very Pro EU again..

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: crazyewok
Three years ago I was very Pro EU. Now I just see it as a failure and cant wait until 2017 so I can vote out for the UK.

And let me guess: in just 3 years time you will be very Pro EU again..

Not unless they have a very very massive overhaul.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Lets get one thing straight, you Scottish, Welch and Irish were marching right along side us English in redcoats across the globe.

Exactly Infact it's pretty amazing how after the Scots were first subdued in 1745, harnessed into our military and much of the excess population exported around the world Britain built the greatest empire the world had seen.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: crazyewok
Lets get one thing straight, you Scottish, Welch and Irish were marching right along side us English in redcoats across the globe.

Exactly

Infact it's pretty amazing how after the Scots were first subdued in 1745, harnessed into our military and much of the excess population exported around the world Britain built the greatest empire the world had seen.

Funny isnt it.

Without the scotts and Irish who WILLINGLY took the kings shilling we likely never would have wont half the battles that built our empire

Hell most of Britain Generals were Scottish or Irish in origin!

a reply to: crazyewok

Well, actually, I can't see much difference between the 2012 and 2015 version of the EU. So, if you were happy in the EU in 2012, I can't imagine you could not be happy in the EU in 2015 (or in 2018, for that matter).

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: crazyewok
Lets get one thing straight, you Scottish, Welch and Irish were marching right along side us English in redcoats across the globe.

Exactly

Infact it's pretty amazing how after the Scots were first subdued in 1745, harnessed into our military and much of the excess population exported around the world Britain built the greatest empire the world had seen.

Funny isnt it.

Without the scotts and Irish who WILLINGLY took the kings shilling we likely never would have wont half the battles that built our empire

Hell most of Britain Generals were Scottish or Irish in origin!

Remember listening to this chap from the States. He reckoned wherever there was substantial settlement from the Scots Irish you come to expect major brawls when the bars kick out. This energetic violent tendency post 1745 once harnessed was certainly something that was a positive for British Empire building.

a reply to: crazyewok

I am waiting for a proper debate to begin on membership of the EU.

I do often believe that democracy in it's current form doesn't really work. Mainly because the electorate are too ignorant to vote on what is really important. Instead we vote on personality, sound bites and what we perceive as major issues in the immediate period leading up to any vote. When really we should be taking a long term view and taking the time to understand the various issues that impact on the prosperity of our nation and our continent too.

My own feelings are that all the negative points about EU membership have been piling up this past year. Germany and France wanting to control the whole EU, faltering economies on the periphery, and the immigration issue probably concerning most people at this present moment. But what is going to be important in the future? I don't know what the vision is of the EU in 5 years let alone 20 years.

It almost feels like the EU is slowly collapsing like that other failing organisation FIFA only a couple of years behind. Too many self serving politicians at the helm making poor decisions (or none at all) who feel answerable to no one.

What still sways me for Britain to retain EU membership is that major business leaders seem to be in favour of it. This is the crux of it. Most of us are not in a position to make a judgement call on the intricacies of free trade across Europe. Top business bosses are.

From outside Europe we would still be able to trade with the continent but it leaves us vulnerable. We would no longer hold any influence or be able to vote on EU policy whatsoever. The EU is also our largest trading area and we could well find ourselves hit with export duties. Yes, we may be able to negotiate deals unilaterally with the USA, Japan, China, the Commonwealth etc. but we could also be negotiating from a weaker position as a smaller economy and no longer a gateway into Europe to boot.

Then of course we have the Human Rights issue which, like it or not has in the main protected workers in the UK, as the dissolution of the power of trade unions has taken effect. We also enjoy the right for us Brits to live, work and travel freely across most of Europe.

I'm still just in favour of staying in. But my main gripe is that the politicians, both we and other European nations have put in charge, seem not up to the task. Look how they dithered over the Greek economic crisis and how the immigrant/refugee crisis is being handled.

I have up until now been happy to be a European and never considered our membership of the EU a particular issue. Now there is a tiny doubt in my mind.

So I will be watching the debate 'for and against' closely.

a reply to: crayzeed

What has the make up of who owns what in Britain got to do with making our decision on leaving or staying in the EU?

Do you honestly believe these European owned companies, would either sell their interests, or relocate? Obviously they would not and any suggestion otherwise is unfounded, and could be considered as scaremongering.

British politicians can easily form a set of regulations to placate these companies, indeed it could easily be said that without the restrictions imposed by European bureaucrats, we could attract a lot more business especially from outside Europe.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Your assumption that companies would leave the UK is totally unfounded, we can have trade agreements with Europe if we leave, this is not a barrier to a no vote and many think tanks believe it could be positive for trade moving forward.

I am not saying there would be no negative consequences, though in the long term it would be much better for Britain having a good trading relationship with the Eu, whilst negotiating our own trade agreements both inside and outside of Europe

It is the whole package we must consider, including democracy as we currently know it, I for one would much prefer our MP's debating and making laws, rather than non elected bureaucrats imposing laws on my country that cannot be rescinded.

ATS has always championed democracy and the rights of people around the world, a stay in vote would be a disaster for democracy in Britain of which there would be no return.