President of Palestine Has Dropped a Bomb at United Nations

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I think Palestine has every right to dismiss the Oslo accord, Israel certainly never held its end of the bargain. A two-state solution in which one state continues to steal land and murder the citizens of the other doesn't sound like a fair deal.

That map is disingenuous to put it nicely.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I always find it interesting when people cherry pick an argument and cite information while failing to provide links to where their information came from.



UN - Mandatory Palestine

Mandatory Palestine[1] (Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn; Hebrew: פָּלֶשְׂתִּינָה (א"י) Pālēśtīnā (EY), where "EY" indicates "Eretz Yisrael" (Land of Israel)) was a geopolitical entity under British administration, carved out of Ottoman Southern Syria after World War I. British civil administration in Palestine operated from 1920 until 1948. During its existence it was known simply as Palestine, but, in retrospect, as distinguishers, a variety of other names and descriptors including Mandatory or Mandate Palestine, also British Palestine and the British Mandate of Palestine, have been used to refer to it.

British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument)

When the League of Nations started the process after the end of WWI the US was not a member of the League of Nations. We signed a separate treaty with Britain recognizing their mandate issued by the League of Nations.

Britain became responsible for the territory in question at the end of WWI (used to be under Ottoman Empire control).



United Nations Partition Plan

...leading to....

United Nations Special Committee on Palestine

Britain was given responsibility for the region. They referred the question to the UN, resulting in the special committee. The recommendations by the special committee were accepted by Britain.

Britain's actions led to the creation of Israel.
The attack on Israel from neighboring countries led to Israel increasing the size of its nation when they captured territory.

The Likud party, conveniently being ignored, is the party that signed the peace treaty with Egypt.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I did provide a link

Me too, I always find it interesting when people cherry pick an argument and cite information while failing to read the source linked to where the original information came from. And in this case - it's the US State Department website.

for the 3rd time.

a reply to: Sublimecraft
Which is nice however the land in question was under British administration and it was Britain who initiated the steps that created Israel.

What part of this is confusing you?


While your at it please highlight and specify where in your linked source it says -

All blame for the current ME situation lies squarely at the feet of the United Nations, David Ben-Gurion and U.S. President Harry S. Truman

Please show how the US -

created / endorsed / implemented the state of Israel

I am curious as to how you arrived at this conclusion when the historical facts say something else.


Or is this another one of those "I hate the US and will say whatever to blame them for something and historical facts be damned" arguments?


Considering Islam didn't come into existence until the 9th century why are they even involved? This issue predates Islam yet here they are...

a reply to: Xcathdra

Clearly you did not even hit my link otherwise you would not have even asked that question - see below to hopefully eliminate any confusion about which part you don't understand.....

a reply to: Xcathdra

The attack on Israel from neighboring countries led to Israel increasing the size of its nation when they captured territory.

Which legally they are not allowed to do. Why do Israeli supporters constantly forget this simple thing?

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I think Palestine has every right to dismiss the Oslo accord, Israel certainly never held its end of the bargain. A two-state solution in which one state continues to steal land and murder the citizens of the other doesn't sound like a fair deal.

That map is disingenuous to put it nicely.

So you have to pull a map up from the 1920's to try to prove her map wrong. A sad attempt which is a total failure.

a reply to: buster2010

I can pull up quite a bit.

Want one of the Ottoman Empire that conquered their area ?

Remember those guys there were predominately SUNNI muslims?

en.wikipedia.org...

I can pull up other stuff like this too:



So tell me there B.

Who are the 'original' owners of Palestine ?

Don't forget now Islam came from the land of Saud, and the Ottomans were Islamic invaders that took that land.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
United States Department of State - Office of the Historian

All blame for the current ME situation lies squarely at the feet of the United Nations, David Ben-Gurion and U.S. President Harry S. Truman - they created / endorsed / implemented the state of Israel, therefore all consequential effect resultant from that Zionist decision is theirs.

Funny how you fast forward 70 years and it's the US and Israel against the world.

The UNITED NATIONS should be held to account but the US and Israel are simply too strong militarily for the security council to do anything.

U sure ?

The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.

en.wikipedia.org...

Absolutely positively sure?

"The phrase 'the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people' was intended and understood by all concerned to mean at the time of the Balfour Declaration that Palestine would ultimately become a 'Jewish Commonwealth' or a 'Jewish State', if only Jews came and settled there in sufficient numbers."[25

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Lol spin much?

If it calls for the Jordan river to be the permanent Eastern border it would then explain the rejection of a Palestinian Arab state west of it now wouldn't it?


As for Jerusalem I don't remember hearing Arabs bitch when Jordan captured and annexed E. Jerusalem.

Secondly you are ignoring the fact that there is more than just the Likud party in Israeli politics. You are also ignoring the fact they use a parliamentary system of government. Hamas on the other hand does not and does not tolerate other political groups challenging its authority, as we saw when Hamas killed members of the Palestinian authority.

The Likud party does not advocate the systemic slaughter of Palestinians / arabs where as Hamas charter does int fact call for the destruction and removal of Israel.

I didn't ignore anything about Likud in Israeli politics. I mentioned the Likud Party because they are the party on power right now (Netanyahu's thhe chairman of the party). So yeah, there charter has a lot of meaning, especially when the Israeli government is enacting their plans.

Also, the world recognizes East Jerusalem as Palestinian land, not Israeli land. That means Israel is illegally occupying East Jerusalem. But Netanyahu & his Likud-run govt not only refuse to leave the occupied lands, but they keep building more settlements in Palestinian East Jerusalem.

And what's the alternative when the Likud Party-run Israelie govt rejects a Palestinian State in Palestinian lands? 2. Israel would have to accept the several million people in Palestinian lands as new Israeli citizens; which they've already said they won't do because it would stop Israel from being a Jewish majority state. 2. They could keep occupying Palestinian lands, with the Palestinian citizens being 2nd class citizens (having no rights against their illegal occupier). 3. Force all of the Palestinians out of Palestinian lands. This option is literally the definition of "ethnic cleansing". And which option do you think the Likud-run government is trying to implement?

That's why it's hypocritical to call out Hamas' charter but ignore Likud's charter.

originally posted by: intrptr
Who can blame the people in the West Bank and Gaza for tiring of the decades old "Peace Process"?

Especially when the terms of that 'peace process' is constantly and cynically ignored and violated by the Israeli Government.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Though Johnson continued to caution Israel against preemption, a number of the President’s advisors had concluded that U.S. interests would be best served by Israel “going it alone” by the time the Israelis actually did so.

You like to just make things up don't you?

You cited Johnson and the government for truth in history…

originally posted by: buster2010

Which legally they are not allowed to do. Why do Israeli supporters constantly forget this simple thing?

Except the part you are ignoring where Israel returned the land to Egypt in exchange for recognition and a peace treaty. You are also ignoring the other part of the UN charter that allows a nation to occupy land seized from an enemy during times of war. Israel has not annexed the west bank nor the Gaza strip. Israel has not annexed the Golan Heights either.

The charter allows an occupying power to use land for military purposes, as Israel has done. All Israeli settlements in Gaza were removed.

Jordan relinquished all claims to the west Bank with its intended use to go towards a Palestinian state. That issue fell by the way side when the Palestinian refugees attempt to overthrow Jordan's King, who in return booted them out of the country (occurring shortly after the Jordanian military took care of business).

Israel offered to return the Golan heights in exchange for recognition and a peace treaty - Syria refused.

Gaza - Occupied by Israel since the end of the 67 war. Prior to Israel controlling it Egypt militarily occupied Gaza from 48 to 67. The Egyptian government dissolved the all Palestinian government and instead of annexing it they opted for a military occupation until the Palestinian issue could be resolved.

originally posted by: MysterX

originally posted by: intrptr
Who can blame the people in the West Bank and Gaza for tiring of the decades old "Peace Process"?

Especially when the terms of that 'peace process' is constantly and cynically ignored and violated by the Israeli Government.

Yah, the peace of the grave. Every president I remember has always held peace talks at Camp David, doing Photo op handshaking ceremonies after discussing peace, deciding on peace, announcing peace, with Israel and the Palestinians. The never ending "peace process" dog and pony show, ad infinitum.

Every single one.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant


I didn't ignore anything about Likud in Israeli politics. I mentioned the Likud Party because they are the party on power right now (Netanyahu's thhe chairman of the party). So yeah, there charter has a lot of meaning, especially when the Israeli government is enacting their plans.

Yeah but you did.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
Also, the world recognizes East Jerusalem as Palestinian land, not Israeli land. That means Israel is illegally occupying East Jerusalem. But Netanyahu & his Likud-run govt not only refuse to leave the occupied lands, but they keep building more settlements in Palestinian East Jerusalem.

Actually the world recognized Jerusalem as part of Israel-Palestine when the country was formed. During the 48-49 war Jordan captured E. Jerusalem. Israel and Jordan tried to back channel negotiations with each other, talking about dividing the city up. Before it could be worked out Jordan "seized" E. Jerusalem and "annexed" it (which Buster says is illegal yet conveniently ignored).

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
And what's the alternative when the Likud Party-run Israelie govt rejects a Palestinian State in Palestinian lands? 2. Israel would have to accept the several million people in Palestinian lands as new Israeli citizens; which they've already said they won't do because it would stop Israel from being a Jewish majority state. 2. They could keep occupying Palestinian lands, with the Palestinian citizens being 2nd class citizens (having no rights against their illegal occupier). 3. Force all of the Palestinians out of Palestinian lands. This option is literally the definition of "ethnic cleansing". And which option do you think the Likud-run government is trying to implement?

Why did Arab countries seize the Palestinian issue by forcing a rejection of an original 2 state solution in order to go to war to remove Israel? There could have been a Palestinian state had the arab governments not invaded Israel as often as they did. There would be a Palestinian state except Hamas is hell bent on destroying Israel. The key concern for Israel is security and considering the size of the country I don't blame them.

I would suggest Israel allow Egypt to deal with Gaza however Egypt wanted nothing to do with them. Why do you ignore that?

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
That's why it's hypocritical to call out Hamas' charter but ignore Likud's charter.

Actually its not considering the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel. The Likud party charter does not call for the genocide of anyone. The Likud party returned the Sinai and signed a peace treaty with Egypt. Using your argument why didn't Israel keep it?

Get rid of Hamas, allow the Palestinians to construct a new government based on peace and recognition and have both parties work together. Israel has at least made the effort to resolve the situation. Certain Arab countries wont allow the situation to be resolved because it takes away their rallying cry to destroy Israel.

a reply to: neo96

I can pull up quite a bit. Want one of the Ottoman Empire that conquered their area ? Remember those guys there were predominately SUNNI muslims? en.wikipedia.org... I can pull up other stuff like this too:

None of which has anything to do with the problem at hand. Israel is breaking international law by annexing Palestine and that is fact.

Who are the 'original' owners of Palestine ?

The Sumerians or Canaanites take your pick. Don't forget Abraham was a Sumerian.

Don't forget now Islam came from the land of Saud, and the Ottomans were Islamic invaders that took that land.

The same can be said of the Hebrews. Read the bible for once they killed or enslaved everyone they met.

originally posted by: buster2010

None of which has anything to do with the problem at hand. Israel is breaking international law by annexing Palestine and that is fact.

Actually not only is it not fact its wrong. Israel has not annexed those regions.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: buster2010

Which legally they are not allowed to do. Why do Israeli supporters constantly forget this simple thing?

Except the part you are ignoring where Israel returned the land to Egypt in exchange for recognition and a peace treaty. You are also ignoring the other part of the UN charter that allows a nation to occupy land seized from an enemy during times of war. Israel has not annexed the west bank nor the Gaza strip. Israel has not annexed the Golan Heights either.

The charter allows an occupying power to use land for military purposes, as Israel has done. All Israeli settlements in Gaza were removed.

Jordan relinquished all claims to the west Bank with its intended use to go towards a Palestinian state. That issue fell by the way side when the Palestinian refugees attempt to overthrow Jordan's King, who in return booted them out of the country (occurring shortly after the Jordanian military took care of business).

Israel offered to return the Golan heights in exchange for recognition and a peace treaty - Syria refused.

Gaza - Occupied by Israel since the end of the 67 war. Prior to Israel controlling it Egypt militarily occupied Gaza from 48 to 67. The Egyptian government dissolved the all Palestinian government and instead of annexing it they opted for a military occupation until the Palestinian issue could be resolved.

All of this is irrelevant every inch of land stolen since 48 is illegal.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: buster2010

None of which has anything to do with the problem at hand. Israel is breaking international law by annexing Palestine and that is fact.

Actually not only is it not fact its wrong. Israel has not annexed those regions.

BS they have allowed and protected settlers from their nation in occupied Palestine. Not to mention they issue building permits in that land so they have annexed that land.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Israel has at least made the effort to resolve the situation.

No they haven't. Every peace agreement Israel has made with Palestine they have broken.