The Right Wing has a new favorite Presidential Candidate

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: luthier

Sorry you haven't been following the whole issue. I was referring to Washington being Christian. I didn't see anything about Jesus did you?

Sorry you haven't been following what Christians actually talk about. We don't just invoke Jesus in everything, He's mostly for our salvation and forgiveness. When it comes to being watched over and receiving blessings, we usually refer to God the Father.

Just odd they never mention Jesus at all and they say things like I posted over and over

Not to mention the enlightenment era philosophy but hey not everybody knows the history I understand..

You have very weak arguments. Not to mention the founders writing completely contradict you.

They were Diests. Who believed in the teachings of Jesus but not that he was God. They believed the bible had good moral lessons but also a bunch of junk written by bad writers.

Don't know how many quotes, treatise, and papers I need to post that you completely ignore.

Notice I give you sources that fit your belief system. Red state, Baylor etc.

I love debate and fully respect Christians apologetics and the cosmological, ontological, and teleological arguements for God...
The hocus pocus as Jefferson says I don't at all. They are nice fables in my opinion, at least some but like our founders prefer logic and reason.

I am Diest myself so I understand pretty well what they say and I also believe in an first cause God. But I am agnostic as well so I don't make claims one way or the other.

I would say Washington was a Christian Diest. But that's as far as I would go

I wonder why most of these athiest anti Christians invoke Gods name when they are close to harm?
One bullet whizzing by their head and their "beliefs" usually Fold.
NOW they tell us what fools we are as Christians like it's SOMEHOW important we must stop following our faith ,like they have a superior view and others should join them.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I wonder why most of these athiest anti Christians invoke Gods name when they are close to harm?
One bullet whizzing by their head and their "beliefs" usually Fold.
NOW they tell us what fools we are as Christians like it's SOMEHOW important we must stop following our faith ,like they have a superior view and others should join them.

First off not am Atheist or are you talking about our founders?

Sorry you were wrong but its called debate don't get involved if your too sensitive to do it

I am married to a devout Christian who went to a Christian college. I have no problem with faith.

I was pointing out you were wrong historically and didn't mention anything about what you should practice. I even mentioned how much I appreciate Christian apologetics and the ontological, teleological, and cosmological arguments for God.

I am an agnostic Diest. Look it up if you don't know what that means. Many of the Founders were Diests and was a large movement at the time. The insanity of the Catholic and Protestant churches and the devine right of Kings had something to do with that.

Second you have no idea what I have been through. Or how many bullets have wizzed by anyone head.

Don't debate if you take it personal.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I wonder why most of these athiest anti Christians invoke Gods name when they are close to harm?
One bullet whizzing by their head and their "beliefs" usually Fold.
NOW they tell us what fools we are as Christians like it's SOMEHOW important we must stop following our faith ,like they have a superior view and others should join them.

First off not am Atheist or are you talking about our founders?

Sorry you were wrong but its called debate don't get involved if your too sensitive to do it

I am married to a devout Christian who went to a Christian college. I have no problem with faith.

I was pointing out you were wrong historically and didn't mention anything about what you should practice. I even mentioned how much I appreciate Christian apologetics and the ontological, teleological, and cosmological arguments for God.

I am an agnostic Diest. Look it up if you don't know what that means. Many of the Founders were Diests and was a large movement at the time. The insanity of the Catholic and Protestant churches and the devine right of Kings had something to do with that.

Second you have no idea what I have been through. Or how many bullets have wizzed by anyone head.

Don't debate if you take it personal.

So what is the problem here? What are you trying to prove or disprove? Washington was not an agnostic and neither was Jefferson. Not all the other Founders were Deist but quite a number of them were Episcopalian as I showed. Most Founders had a Christian faith of some kind contrary to your absurd claim that most of them were atheist, I frankly doubt if even any of them were. Atheism had only become vogue sine the Humanist Manifesto was signed. So what if they didn't mention Jesus in their writing. What does that prove? Most people today don't understand the true mystical basis of Chritianity and the Teachings of Christ I noticed also you said you respect Christiam apologetics. Is that towns you go not respect Christisns who do not apologize for their faith and do not try to make scripture fir the Progressive narrative?

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I wonder why most of these athiest anti Christians invoke Gods name when they are close to harm?
One bullet whizzing by their head and their "beliefs" usually Fold.
NOW they tell us what fools we are as Christians like it's SOMEHOW important we must stop following our faith ,like they have a superior view and others should join them.

First off not am Atheist or are you talking about our founders?

Sorry you were wrong but its called debate don't get involved if your too sensitive to do it

I am married to a devout Christian who went to a Christian college. I have no problem with faith.

I was pointing out you were wrong historically and didn't mention anything about what you should practice. I even mentioned how much I appreciate Christian apologetics and the ontological, teleological, and cosmological arguments for God.

I am an agnostic Diest. Look it up if you don't know what that means. Many of the Founders were Diests and was a large movement at the time. The insanity of the Catholic and Protestant churches and the devine right of Kings had something to do with that.

Second you have no idea what I have been through. Or how many bullets have wizzed by anyone head.

Don't debate if you take it personal.

So what is the problem here? What are you trying to prove or disprove? Washington was not an agnostic and neither was Jefferson. Not all the other Founders were Deist but quite a number of them were Episcopalian as I showed. Most Founders had a Christian faith of some kind contrary to your absurd claim that most of them were atheist, I frankly doubt if even any of them were. Atheism had only become vogue sine the Humanist Manifesto was signed. So what if they didn't mention Jesus in their writing. What does that prove? Most people today don't understand the true mystical basis of Chritianity and the Teachings of Christ

Never ever said they were Atheist. But they protected the right to be one.

Can you be a Christian without accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour? Their own personal writing shows they admired Jesus for his moral teachings and did not think he was God. They write this over and over again.

It doesn't matter what religion they grew up with or where they went to church. They did not believe in the miracles. They did not believe in the Trinity or Jesus was their lord and saviour.

Many did believe in a God that was active in the role of men but it wasn't Jesus.

The quotes I presented which you ignore show this.

This is a historical arguement not one of your belief. I respect your beliefs unlike how you guys respect mine. Calling me an atheist and all. Just because you are not aware of the philosophy that influences the founders doesn't mean it's not valid.

Again by definition you should accept Jesus as your lord and saviour the founders wrote that was just the writing of men and they didn't believe in the miracles. I have shown this in their own words. That is my only point. Not that Christians are bad.

I also showed the very carefully did not make the US a Christian nation because of the past and for diplomatic reasons on the world stage.

Stop being oppositional and use reason to argue.

a reply to: luthier. Why are you so hyper focused on Jesus as God or not as God? Are you trying to prove that none of the Founders accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior? The Founders were for freedom of religion not freedom from although if that's what people want is their choice. It is only recently that atheists have become so vocal about their desire to stop the expression of Christianity publicly and replace it with their secular humanist ideals in the schools and in the courthouses.
Why is that happening? It's because of the Marxist Progressive push to eliminate religion as the "opiate of the masses" . There is nothing pious or even remotely altruistic about it. Are you trying to prove that this is what make Cruz different from the Founders?

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: luthier. Why are you so hyper focused on Jesus as God or not as God? Are you trying to prove that one of the Founders accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior? The Founders were for freedom of religion not freedom from although if that's what people want is their choice. It is only recently that atheists have become so vocal about their desire to stop the expression of Christianity publicly and replace it with their secular humanist ideals in the schools and in the courthouses.
Why is that happening? It's because of the Marxist Progressive push to eliminate religion as the "opiate of the masses" . There is nothing pious or even remotely altruistic about it.

I am not hyper focused. But to be a Christian you accept Jesus as God .

Try addressing points to have a valid arguement.

It's not just one either. Its many of the Founders. The majority wrote about the hocus pocus of the bible being false.

It's also not a new debate. In fact Jefferson rewrote a bible without the miracles, Trinity, and Virgin births.

Jefferson took Jesus Christ out of the declaration even though Jay had put it in.

It was actually the Christians around and after Jackson who began changing wording of goverent policies.

Jeez just try and have a logical arguement and keep out all the assumptions.

a reply to: luthier

Personal?
MY COUNTRY is a PERSONAL matter not some concept or ideal.I AM AT WAR as I always have said with this progressive invasion ,their mistake is showing what has been successful.
ALL who speak of my country's NOT being exeptional and attempting to regard it as a fantasy , have in fact, SHOWN us how to make such "fantasies " real...AGAIN.
I fully intend to continue that. There is much I disagree about our prior militancy but this assinine idea we are failing is rediculous and a dangerous attempt to make THAT fantasy forment.
If YOU can't take the heat I suggest you take a walk,sensitive feelings are LIKE that .

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: luthier

Personal?
MY COUNTRY is a PERSONAL matter not some concept or ideal.I AM AT WAR as I always have said with this progressive invasion ,their mistake is showing what has been successful.
ALL who speak of my country's NOT being exeptional and attempting to regard it as a fantasy , have in fact, SHOWN us how to make such "fantasies " real...AGAIN.
I fully intend to continue that. There is much I disagree about our prior militancy but this assinine idea we are failing is rediculous and a dangerous attempt to make THAT fantasy forment.
If YOU can't take the heat I suggest you take a walk,sensitive feelings are LIKE that .

I respect all of that. I am a libertarian not a progressive. I don't think we need federal progressive ideas. They may work on a local level. Mixing religious ideas with legislation is progressive. It's wanting to change people. The founders were against this and even say to protect the disbelief in God.

However, if voters want progressive ideas that is how the system works. You can't stop the voters anymore than they should stop your beliefs.

Thats why I think states rights are so important. However there are some things federally protected by the constitution and the rule of law applies to anyone even under disagreement. You have the right to protest those laws as well.

I appreciate your service to this country.

a reply to: luthier

Perhaps a Constitutional convention will happen to possible change a few things,worrisome as it could be.
I speak to others as I am posting on this forum,as passionaely and truthfully as I can..it IS the Klingon way ...aside from that SILLY counquering peaceful planets and wanting to DIE thing.
Speaking of which:[conservativebyte.com...]edit on 29-9-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)