Poles furious after Russia blames them for starting WWII

Another thought. People say the winners write the history books. You do realize Russia was one of the winners. Wouldn't this be in history books as you put it. Instead of a mouthpiece causing drama spouting it out now. Logic fails again.

a reply to: Crumbles

Not only was Russia / USSR a winner they occupied Poland for 50+ years. Only after the formerly occupied countries were able to get away from Russian occupation did Russia start rewriting history, attempting to justify their alliance with Nazi Germany by describing it as anything but.

See if Russia can spin it where Poland is responsible it makes it easier for Russia to justify their invasion of Poland.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The fall of the USSR certainly made them back track quite a bit. They could have just said poland had wmds. It would have been just as truthful as the defence excuse.

Statecraft is full of tricky information usage schemes, and various types of subterfuge. History demonstrates the guile of aggressor nations using all sorts of distractions, fake outs, and false flags to mask their aggression. The problem for these war criminals now days is they are exposed more often than the past. The future will not be so obtuse in the future as billions of cameras, and microphones now record everything. Future history books will instead I think be youtube channels.

Or what ever replaces youtube since they censor much.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: xoenneox

Would you prefer the camps be removed and lost to history or keep some around as a reminder to what happens when one group of people wrongly blame another entire group of peoples and then tries to exterminate them?

No, sir..I just do not understand why my country must pay for GERMAN CONCENTRATION CAMPS, just..that.

a reply to: xoenneox

Well as another poster pointed out Poland doesn't pay for it all. Secondly I think its a small price to pay for the larger price the people who died in those camps paid to ensure its not lost to history. This is one of those moments in history where its imperative we never forget what happened. Its one thing for people to read about it. It is brought to a whole new level when people can experience the situation first hand for themselves.

Secondly maybe you should ask the Soviet government why they forced Poland to waive reparations from E. Germany.

Finally the Polish government settled with surrounding countries as to war reparations.


You don't think Poland should pay for it and it is a valid point. Me personally I think the larger lesson is more important.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: xoenneox

Well as another poster pointed out Poland doesn't pay for it all. Secondly I think its a small price to pay for the larger price the people who died in those camps paid to ensure its not lost to history. This is one of those moments in history where its imperative we never forget what happened. Its one thing for people to read about it. It is brought to a whole new level when people can experience the situation first hand for themselves.

Secondly maybe you should ask the Soviet government why they forced Poland to waive reparations from E. Germany.

Finally the Polish government settled with surrounding countries as to war reparations.


You don't think Poland should pay for it and it is a valid point. Me personally I think the larger lesson is more important.

WHAT??
Look, I am Pole, don't you think I KNOW what I am saying?
We are maintaining GERMAN concentration camps, we are paying for that, nobody ELSE.
My question is: WHY, ok?
Let me mention one more thing: CNN, for example: they occasionally say that camps were POLISH.

Btw, I wonder why world seems to forget, that we, Poles, were helping Jews risking lives.
Novadays, NOBODY seem to remember.
Now, there's agenda - Poles are antisemitic, blablabla...

you know what...I am done here, it is ridiculous to talk about Poland with foreigners, you have no idea.
Ahh, btw:
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: xoenneox

He isn't claiming poland maintained the camps (I don't think). It's clear Germany set the camps up in poland for convenience. So they wouldn't have to transport people to Germany. I think he is simply saying the price of the camps are a necessity to remind people of the hate that took place in them. Since they are on polish land the obligation falls on Poland to maintain. At least it isn't still German occupied.

That's what I got from it.

a reply to: xoenneox

Either learn to read and understand English or find someone who does. nothing in my post comes even remotely close to what you are complaining about. Nothing in my post blames Poland for the camps. Nothing in my post blames Poland for anything.

Nazi Germany built the camps.
The Soviet government, while occupying Poland AFTER WWII FORCED the polish government to waive reparations from E. Germany, another country occupied by the Soviet Union after WWII. Poland not only reached reparation agreements with other countries during that time period, those agreements also included the transfer of territory to Poland. Aside from economic reparations negotiations also took place exploring individual reparations to those who were murdered by the Nazi regime while they occupied Poland.

If you are going to throw a fit and tell me off make sure you understand what the hell I am saying to start out with.

originally posted by: Crumbles I think he is simply saying the price of the camps are a necessity to remind people of the hate that took place in them.

Thank you and exactly my point.

The more we relegate injustices to just text we lose the impact of the actual scene of the crime. Its one thing to read about what the Nazis did. Its something else entirely to actually stand in one of these Nazi camps to visualize the written history. It forces people to maintain the memory and understand what happened and why it should never be allowed to occur again.

Considering what Poland went through they are in a unique position to be an example to the world when governments decide which genetic makeup is no longer worthy of life, liberty and freedom.

I believe Poland should do all they can to ensure these camps never disappear from the earth if for no other reason than to fulfill the concept brought forward at the end of WWII - "Never Again".

a reply to: Xcathdra

It was pretty clear. You put to much academia in it, but if you don't people complain you need a history lesson.

originally posted by: ken10
I remember reading that Germany wanted to settle things diplomatically about the German peoples stranded and being abused after the treaty of Versailles divided Germany up to make Poland.....But America promised to back Poland if they stood up to Germany....This prompted Germany to act....or something along those lines.

But what do I know

Im sorry if perhaps I am misunderstanding you.... but Poland has existed since as early as the 8th century and in its prime was an empire that spanned eastern Europe
Polish military has outdone every enemy they have ever faced for hundred as of years and it wasn't until WWlI that they have suffered a major loss and even then much of "historical fact" is actually propaganda and in no way true.

For example
The Winged Hussars charging a tank battalion
Not true in any way shape or form
In fact the incident was much like that of the 300 spartans
Polish forces received intel that one of there cities was being approached by German infantry
Poland ordered an evacuation while simultaneously sending their cavalry to intercept the German infantry

The infantry were wiped out with some casualties among the Polish cavalry, but the city was safely evacuated just in time for the cavalry to receive retreat orders as new intel indicated a tank battalion was approaching their location
The cavalry retreated, leaving their dead, there was no time to gather them, the germans arrives take some pictures of tanks with dead horses
BOOM
instant propaganda that has forever since labeled the Polish as dumb, stupid, mentally slow etc.
History is written by the victors
And set in stone by the idiotic masses who are to lazy to actually look into real facts

originally posted by: residentofearth
a reply to: alldaylong


Russian are so angry cause some people in Poland destroy the tombs of soviet soldiers few days ago. Lie is the old soviet methods so we used to it. Blaming Poland for WWII is like blaming jews for the holocaust.

Nah
Russia is angry because Poland kicked their ass for hundreds of years and when WWII happened we didnt roll over and die like they wanted us to

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You should add the rest of the camp's museum's of KL Majdanek, KL Sobibor, KL Treblinka, KL Stuthof, KL Belzec, KL Chełmno, KL Gross-Rosen. It is not about money. It is about memory.

a reply to: residentofearth

I was not aware of those.

The point was to show he was completely off on his numbers to begin with, those only make it worse.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I do not blame You for unawareness.

I've been in 3 of them, Aushwitz, Stuthof and Treblinka. I saw there polish surnames, jewish ones, many nations Hungarian, Romanian. No german. And I CAN'T stand when US and jewish mass media blames Poland for that. It's just insane. You can't be Pole if You think Poles did it.

originally posted by: residentofearth
And I CAN'T stand when US and jewish mass media blames Poland for that. It's just insane. You can't be Pole if You think Poles did it.

What United States media cite blamed Poland? The Original Post makes it clear it was Russia.

Poland was screwed long before they knew it with the back door deals The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were making.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Sure, the original post show us the Russian statement,

but...You should know that Obama use term "polish death camps" at medal ceremony in 2012, then apoligize so ok, then CNN used it (still just mistake) , then Jerusalem Times used it (another mistake?) , later director of FBI James Comey said that we should share responsibility for Germans crimes. "Polish death camps" should be never even said or linked. Poland had the best 'Underground army" against Nazis. Collaboration with enemy was the toughest sin.

Got to go, en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: residentofearth

That is not blaming someone, that is making a mistake.

a reply to: Elysian

You are quite right about that "Polish cavalry charge against German tanks" and to my shame I always assumed - having heard/read about it when I was young - that it was a genuine story (though not in a disparaging way towards the Poles, rather as an example of how they would fight for survival against all odds). But it never happened.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: residentofearth
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Sure, the original post show us the Russian statement,

but...You should know that Obama use term "polish death camps" at medal ceremony in 2012, then apoligize so ok, then CNN used it (still just mistake) , then Jerusalem Times used it (another mistake?) , later director of FBI James Comey said that we should share responsibility for Germans crimes. "Polish death camps" should be never even said or linked. Poland had the best 'Underground army" against Nazis. Collaboration with enemy was the toughest sin.

Got to go, en.wikipedia.org...

Let's be perfectly clear about this - he meant the German death camps built in Poland. No-one has ever said that the Poles were behind the Holocaust, it was a 100% German atrocity.