Turning our backs on Islam.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Please check your dates and you will find that the Islamic crusades had started well before the Christian Crusades. The Crusades against the pagans referred to as the Northern Crusades were AFTER the Islamic Crusades against the Christians and non believers and have nothing to do with Islam. Mohammed was rampaging through Europe and the East and people at that time wanted an end to it and easy access to Jerusalem.

There is no evidence for the cannabalism in any texts except rumour and hearsay from one Battle but it IS accepted that during the famine it probably occurred. I will repeat this isn't happening NOW. WE are not in the dark ages, WE learn from history and move forward. Do you want me to start spouting all the horrors Mohammed and his massive armies committed during their crusades? Is it relevant? No

I'm not propping up the Crusades it was a bad time in history, I just wish people would get their facts straight and their datelines

I was replying to someone else's lack of historical knowledge. This has no bearing on the thread just ancient history with rights and wrongs on both sides

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

At least a part of your comparison of Jews during WWII and Muslims today can be answered simply. The Jews were being attacked by an evil force that had a goal of wiping them off the earth. The Muslims, or at least a significant portion wish to continue trying to reach that goal. It might be more accurate to compare Muslims to Nazis except that even the Nazis weren't doing it for their God. That pretty much makes radical Islam a problem that can only be solved by eliminating everyone who practices that segment of the religion. And it is a segment of the religion that the other segments need to police on their own instead of sitting back and pretending it is someone else's problem.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Actually HITLER was the NAZIS God.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

At least a part of your comparison of Jews during WWII and Muslims today can be answered simply. The Jews were being attacked by an evil force that had a goal of wiping them off the earth. The Muslims, or at least a significant portion wish to continue trying to reach that goal. It might be more accurate to compare Muslims to Nazis except that even the Nazis weren't doing it for their God. That pretty much makes radical Islam a problem that can only be solved by eliminating everyone who practices that segment of the religion. And it is a segment of the religion that the other segments need to police on their own instead of sitting back and pretending it is someone else's problem.

That is another concern of mine.

You don't have to look far, even here on ATS, to hear or see a claim of antisemitism, whether the claim is valid or not.

For some, their attitude towards the Jews, will not necessarily change, but I think you are going to see more people being less critical of any military or aggressive move against a country in the middle east, when people start to view Israel's enemy as their enemy. I fear Israel may even be encouraged and supported in taking action against what some may feel is an invasion on their own doorsteps.

If the moderate Muslims feel that this is something that has to play itself out and they don't need to be concerned or involved, in diffusing this problem, they may find themselves in the middle of a hell, in a world that no Earthling will recognize or survive.

I should imagine there are a lot of angry people in from the middle east seeing as we have been bombing their countries for goodness knows how long.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
I should imagine there are a lot of angry people in from the middle east seeing as we have been bombing their countries for goodness knows how long.

Their leaders are responsible for it so they bear some responsibility as well in truth. They did let their leaders run i t into that situation.

Perhaps this is a simplistic question but why can't these refugees be taken in by other Muslim countries? Wouldn't the refugees be happier with a culture that is not foreign to them?

Why should western countries have to take in refugees? I'm just asking the question.

originally posted by: Wildbob77
Perhaps this is a simplistic question but why can't these refugees be taken in by other Muslim countries? Wouldn't the refugees be happier with a culture that is not foreign to them?

Why should western countries have to take in refugees? I'm just asking the question.

lets just say for the sake of argument that a western country had a disaster and its refugees wanted to emigrate to middle eastern countries, would they be accepted?

a reply to: Wildbob77

There is almost as much animosity between various sects of islam as there is against Christians and Jews. Syrians were quite moderate and westernised in their living and religious practices, so cannot go to say Saudi where its ridiculously medieval, or don't want to go there which I don't blame them. There are huge problems between Sunni countries and Shi'ite countries going back centuries when they split from each other. Splitting people up into groups and allocating a country would be nigh on impossible I would have thought, but I still feel that once reaching a safe haven regardless of the country they should stay put. These that are flowing in from Turkey having lived there for more than a year or so why are they braving the seas to get to Europe? Many have actually admitted it, better life better benefit system better everything, which is fair enough we would all like better. I would like (or used to) want to emigrate to Canada for a better life and all the rest, but there is a system we have to follow I can't just turn up and say hey take me!

So many are now jumping on the bandwagon and illegally entering the countries of their choice and acting all ungrateful if their demands of choice aren't met. Why are Pakistani men turning up? Romanian? What are the fleeing from?

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I understand what you are saying, but what do you mean by better? They reject our lifestyle, religions, food, clothes, and way of life, so why would coming here be better?

They seem to be strong, angry, ready to fight, and they have a voice. Wouldn't their numbers work to their benefit in making their demands in Muslim countries. Surely there are many already in those countries that agree with them, so their numbers would be even greater. They would have supporters and in a land that is their home, with family and friends much closer and easier to get to.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Exactly So why should the west take in these refugees who can't even get along with others of the same religion?

I'm not opposed to immigration buy I don't really want and this country doesn't need another 100,000 people per year who don't play well with others

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I don't know what goes through their minds, but I'm presuming they are using media representations and word of mouth and presume its better. Plus I suppose in the West they have the choice to reject this and that which is great....except doesn't help integration which is in my mind an absolute top priority to avoid conflict.

Can Muslims be educated to our culture? Can they be helped to integrate and become an actual useful citizen of their adoptive country? Personally I doubt it because I think we've already gone down that road...to the end

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Is it really possible to say anything to change the mind of
someone from the US? Life is cheap in the Islamic world.
An American just looks at the Middle East and thinks, "I
don't want to live like that!" "If it's so great, move over
there yourself. Don't try to turn my country into that."

a reply to: toms54

I think we are being distracted and manipulated. I have tried to look as this situation as fairly as it is possible, with my human mind and spirit, but when something doesn't seem logical, even when I attempt to see it from all angles, it is hard for me to just accept it as presented. I have watched the videos, and I have seen the pictures; the good, the bad and the ugly. Nowhere does any of this make sense, anywhere.

Surely there is somebody in the all the governments involved, that has enough sense to realize that no good is going to come out of a massive number of people flooding into any area, with no regulations, no control, no plan.

I have watched videos of how the people of Syria, the labelled true refugees, are being provided for, and that they are being processed for immigration to host countries. The same can be done for the others. Set the camps up in the safe countries, and process those that are legitimate.

It is madness to just allow this mass exodus to continue. Many lives will be negatively impacted if commonsense does not intervene.

What is taking place just does not make sense.

I apologize for interrupting the current direction this thread is taking, but I would like to ask my Muslim friends on ATS: "How do you personally feel about the 200,000 refugees that are coming to America? I ask that, because, from what I am understanding about this, a mixture of differing sects of Islam are on their way.

Do you think they will accept you, and see you as a "believer" if you practice a different sect?

Do you see the refugees that practice a different sect as non-believers?

Are you concerned that some of these refugees might be terrorists? Even if 1% of the refugees were terrorists, that would be 2,000, but that still seems too high, so even 50 possible terrorists? 2 terrorists?

I personally have no problem with helping the refugees, although, America has already stepped up and has taken in our fair share of immigrants already. But, I am very concerned about the bad apples that may lurk there.

So, if you are also concerned about the possible terrorists in the crowd, how would you handle the current situation?

Thanks

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I hope you are aware how rediculous this thread is, we hold no responsibility to Islam, Islam holds a responsibility towards its self! They need to pick up the pieces not us, I don't care about our intervention I don't care one bit. That is no justification for the wests downfall. This is a side issue period end of story, I stand here with the west and our interests, and evidently you stand there with Islam and its interests. The two are incompatible that's just the plain and simple of this argument, so yea go ahead let the flood gates stay open continue with an free flowing exodus,and when the attacks start happening and extreme Islamicfication of the settled areas, do not say a word, when the people rise up and crush them and put them in internment camps,and ship them back to where they came from. This is dangerous for everyone involved.If mass attacks do take place like I believe they will, then it will encourage apartheid which is also a threat though an internal one. It would be wise to stem the flow of refugees now and take meaningful actions now,lest we embark upon another dark corner of history.

a reply to: TechniXcality

I have to say well said

The incompatibility is what I have been attempting to drive home and it is that incompatibiity which is divisive and as you say leads to a form of apartheid albeit self inflicted

a reply to: misskat1

I have asked this question before, actually several times. I don't feel that I have ever received a true, honest, in your face, non PC answer as of yet.

I don't think the Muslims I have spoken to are truly capable of answering that question, because they are not the ones on the front line dealing with the flood of a massive number of determined people forcing their way into their town or village.

I have mentioned on this board many times that I am a pure Heinz 57 American. I have enough family to fill a football stadium, and I love them all. I would be lying if I said equally, but I do love them all. I can honestly say that I "like" all of them that I know. That doesn't mean they haven't ever done anything that saddened me, embarrassed me, angered me, or disappointed me. Many have, and likely some can say the same about me.

I add this personal information to make a point. As much as I love and welcome all members of my diverse family, I would be scared breathless, and quickly looking for a "quick" solution to the problem, if they all came flooding up my driveway at the same time. I also would have no shame or guilt in turning them way to find their own food and shelter.

I think when we ask that question, they think we are lumping them in with the radicals, or sneakily attacking them or their religion. I think it is difficult for them from all sides, and they haven't really looked at it from our eyes.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

The lack of strategic thinking in the face of emotional pretentious servitude is #ing astounding. That's why I will continue to be a loud voice as should you, the sides will be drawn in the event the crisis bares the fruit of its root. Then the answer will be,"well, the west gets what is deserves". No, # that! And the horse it ride in on!

Cheers

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport The lack of strategic thinking in the face of emotional pretentious servitude is #ing astounding. That's why I will continue to be a loud voice as should you, the sides will be drawn in the event the crisis bares the fruit of its root. Then the answer will be,"well, the west gets what is deserves". No, # that! And the horse it ride in on!
Cheers

This is what terrifies me. I can't see anyway that this will not play out without a lot of people being hurt or killed.

When I was young, I was your typical momma bear. You did not want to get between me and mine. I was raised in the country and I was taught to shoot before I was taught to cook. I am an old lady now and I have mellowed in a lot of ways. I thought my days of fighting were over and done with. I honestly do not own anything that is worth a person's live. I am not even sure if I would take another's life if my own life was at risk.

I have to be very honest though, I know myself pretty well. All of that pacifistic demeanor would disappear in less than an instant, the moment a child, defenseless animal, or person entered into the picture.

I know what I am capable of when pushed into that corner. I have no reason to believe that anyone else is any different.

We need to fix this. Now.