Unarmed, need to take down man with gun. what do?

originally posted by: Gothmog
In air rescue , we learned a lot on unarmed combat. How to take someone out quietly and quickly. There are no "proven" methods that will work every time. Just the ones to use in case you are ever in this situation.What does help is "lady luck" being on your side.

It's better to be lucky than good any day.

A stern look and a bit of bad language works for me .

originally posted by: boymonkey74
A stern look and a bit of bad language works for me

.

Pardon me if this offends anybody as being racist.
I have noticed, as a somewhat Caucasian, that black folk are scared as hell of a "crazy white boy."

I'm an old lady so I'd probably resort to tears and maybe faking a seizure to divert his attention while I figured out what to whack him with. I had a few self defense classes that taught how to weaponize common objects. I'm a little scrawny thing so I would have to outsmart him rather than overpower him.

originally posted by: diggindirt
I'm an old lady so I'd probably resort to tears and maybe faking a seizure to divert his attention while I figured out what to whack him with. I had a few self defense classes that taught how to weaponize common objects. I'm a little scrawny thing so I would have to outsmart him rather than overpower him.

I've seen a crazy 90 pound gal whack a 200 plus pound man's knees out with a shovel.

a reply to: skunkape23

I saw a five foot nurse do a one man takedown on a three hunfred pound mentally ill dude with a rolling pin.
Love at first sight it was lol.

a reply to: boymonkey74

My wife is a nurse and did something similar. A guy on her floor was going nuts. He had robe on but it was open and he was screaming and running around in the halls, because he wanted more pain drugs. Everyone else was terrified and calling for security, when my wife walks up to him, grabs his testicles in a tight grip, [ with gloves on ] and says "Get back in bed or these go in a jar on my desk".
He went.
First time her friends told me that story I couldn't stop laughing for 5 minutes.

originally posted by: johnwick
Take two steps, at a full sprint, grab the weapon twist it to the inside away from his trigger finger, make sure you turn it up down or towards him, just in case he reflexively squeezes,

I just wanted to add something to that. If one does manage to get their hands on the weapon, you can possibly break their trigger finger if they have their finger on the trigger. Not only do you turn the weapon towards them, if you use your other hand to force the grip up, you'll trap their finger inside the guard and effectively break it rendering them unable to fire any more. You can then re-lower the grip and pull the weapon away from him as they'll likely be recoiling from pain.

a reply to: DAVID64

Is that before or after you rape his wife?

make sure u got Steve Seagal on quick-dial, then press the button and wait...

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Wtf dude?.

i agree with a few other posters here. disarming anybody while unarmed requires lots and lots of training and practice.

i understand that if the weapon is not deployed you have a decent chance as the unarmed person to disarm them if youre within 20 feet.

if the weapon is already deployed you are going to have to be a sneaky Bastard and get them to drop their guard via counter intuitive behaviour and false body language. false body language is your friend 90 percent of the time in just about any close quarters situations.

the other poster is right. get to within two paces of the gunman via bs body language. the second you perceive his guard is down rush in use both hands to grab the weapon and weapon hand while SIMULTAINIOUSLY body checking them with your full mass. if you grab the weapon and wrist area while slamming the gunman with say your shoulder, back or,butt you will be torquing the weapon out of their hand. also helps to momentarily drop you body weight down too whilke doing the torquing. it may and probably will still go off but at least not directly at you. May still hit other bystanders though. and your body mass since your hopefully on the outside of their shoulder will have a good chance of snapping the elbow. but it will usually knock the guy free of his weapon. hit him, anywhere as hard as you f ing can. get distance and if you've got the weapon and its operatable shoot him. if it's not cold clock him with it.

the philippino special forces are trained to use their bolo (like a weaponized machete) in close quarters to take out three guys aiming m16s at them. slash slash slash. they are pretty good at this.

one thing to stress is luck is a factor. and almost as importantly. counter offensive footwork. learn the female triangle or your going to die or loose just about any altercation where the odds are even or not good.

as for attacking the knee. in this instance dont. it's a waste of time.

now being short if the guy isn't armed I go for the knee all the time. fact is if the opponents shoulder is higher than yours you will have a very difficult time getting a shoulder lock or control of their neck or head if attacking from outside their shoulder (the safest place to manuever for a the person doing counter offense) you will need to bring their shoulder to your own shoulder height first. I'm short, very strong, but very short. 5'4". most of my training partners my whole life are much taller than me. usually between 6 and 6,2. one guy I mess around with on occasion is 6,4 and 310. but as long as I kick the knee in or pop/slap the lower back causing them to buckle I can usually get a over or under arm, shoulder lock, or some type of neck/ head control if I break their structure first. without it I almost never can get those. so kicking or stomping the knee. great advice. just not for when defending against a gun.

to the guy who said grab the slide so the gun wont go off. dont. the gun will still fire the round in its chamber. into you. it just won't be able to eject the round and load a new one. i mean when grabbing the gun to control it grab it anyway you can get you paws on it. just dont do it with intention or belief it will prevent the gun from firing. and never try the grab the slide and disassemble gun trick when it's aimed at you. for the slide Like on a glock to come appart you still need to pull the trigger first. and whatever round was in the chamber will get you.

to cuervo I think you mentioned your teacher was a jkd guy who mixed in some Mantis kung fu. him being jkd im interested if you know what type of Mantis northern or southern he was teaching you. I'm figuring southern cause that fits better with the arts that largely make up jkd. extra sweet if it was Chu gar or jook lum dervitives. that sh!t can be nasty. doesnt look it but it is.

my best advice is always carry a blade with you in your pocket. dont care if its technically illegal or not. knives are an amazing equalizer and in many ways from close quarters superior to a gun or just about any other weapon. just about nobody even the trained guys can successfully defend against a knife being used realistically.

also, excellent video from funker tactical. great YouTube page and Doug really really knows his stuff. the two guys in that gun vs knife demo are both very very good and in real life 99.99 percent if the world population do not have that guys gun skill. still I urge anybody into that stuff to follow Doug's videos. they're great. and honest.

This depends on how far away the gunman is. Running away is an option. Hitting a moving target is very difficult with a handgun. Moving in a zigzag fashion and giving as low a profile as possible is most beneficial.

a reply to: eManym

i wouldn't run in a zig zag your spending more time out in the open. just run as fast as you can towards cover.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

In a rush situation, the armed attacker will respond by trying to bring the weapon up to the correct height to cause injury or death by application of force to the trigger. Therefore, it is necessary to first interrupt that chain of events. Controlling the gun, ensuring it remains pointed down and away from yourself and other innocent parties in the room, is where you begin... But just how is that done?

Well it depends on the angle of approach, but there are a number of different methods which can work. The best way is to get to the shooter before their arm has a chance to raise at all, meaning that when you grab them, they have not yet achieved a shooters stance or bought both arms together at all. This means that they have no opportunity to make a strong stance against having their weapon arm grabbed, and disarmed in short order. Approach at speed, grasping their weapon hand and the wrist of the same arm. Still grabbing that hand and wrist, use the momentum with which you approached, and move past them on the weapon hand side, twisting the wrist as you go. Aim to end up stepping around to face your opponents rear by the end of the movement. If you do it fast enough, the wrist will break, rendering them less able to keep grip on the weapon, or maintain the direction in which the weapon is being pointed.

I love your posts. Sometimes you come out with an absolutely wonderful, thoughtful and thought-provoking analysis and commentary on a topic. Other times... well, this is one of those other times.

I'm familiar with the technique you're describing, as it appears in a number of different forms of martial arts. Closing in and taking control of the wrist is a great technique and we were taught to follow it either with a strike to the elbow or to the face before forcing their arm to bend at the elbow, driving their hand back towards their face. I think there may be issues using it against someone with a gun. It's still a very useful technique to know, though. With a bit of practice you can also use it as a fairly effective restraint and control technique. At least, it works in the dojo when the attacker knows how they are supposed to react and they play along.

If, God forbid, I was ever placed in that situation, the first thing I would do is come to terms with the fact that someone is likely to get hurt, and that person is likely to be me. Then I'd need to weigh up if getting hurt is worth it. If the guy wants my wallet, he can have it. Sometimes a battle isn't worth fighting and I value my life more highly than I value my pride over getting mugged.

If I thought that his intention was to hurt me or he was trying to make me go somewhere - which is always a bad sign - then I'm not going to try anything clever, I'll just charge him down and hope he doesn't hit anything vital before I get there. Basic physics and Newton's Laws are on my side, thankfully. If I'm with my wife and kids, I'd rather be catching the bullets while they run than try any fancy martial arts that risk the gun being pointed in their direction.

It's not going to be elegant or clever because, even with a martial arts background, I'm not a ninja or Neo from the Matrix. Pretending I am isn't going to help anybody. What I am, however, is a big fat bloke with a surprising turn of speed and a lot of weight to put behind my punches.

If I can get my hands on the firearm (and assuming it's a semiauto pistol) then I'll be trying to push the slide out of battery while we tussle. You don't need to move it far at all and if it works, the firearm is basically out of commission while I use my free hand to keep punching until he lets go or stops moving. That's about as fancy as I'd get, simply because it's comparatively (key word!) easy to achieve with one hand and the benefit from doing so significantly outweigh the risks in attempting it. Dropping the magazine, cycling the slide to eject the chambered round... that's a lot of things to try and do while you're panicking.

I think it would be pretty much suicidal to try and break his trigger finger or pull it away from the trigger (I think another poster mentioned that). You're creating a massive risk of causing the gun to fire.

I remember something a Krav Maga instructor said once, which might be useful to the discussion. I'll need to paraphrase, it was a long time ago.

"Mindset is going to win most fights. Expect to get hurt. People who haven't come to terms with getting hurt are more likely to stop when it happens. People who have come to terms with it already are more likely to stay in the fight until there's no fight left."

Regardless, what I say I'd do and what I'd actually do if that situation happened might be two very different things. I sincerely hope I'll never need to find out.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR

to the guy who said grab the slide so the gun wont go off. dont. the gun will still fire the round in its chamber. into you. it just won't be able to eject the round and load a new one. i

When people talk about grabbing the slide, what they're usually referring to is pushing it back a few mm, which for most semi auto pistols would be sufficient to push it out of battery and prevent it firing.

I remember talking to an ex-squaddie who had served in Northern Ireland. He said they were warned about the Browning HP's tendency to not work if pressed against someone, as it was too easy to push the slide back enough to prevent it firing - I seem to recall him saying that the slide extended past the end of the barrel slightly further than other pistols, which is why pressing it against a target caused a problem. There may be some element of barrack-room rumour there, of course. While I'd love to get my hands on a Browning HP to examine it, it's not going to happen in the foreseeable future!

a reply to: Cuervo

I guess, l've always fclt it worked because I went from
being someone the guy might want to shoot. To
someone he connected with. The funny thing is
when l got back in the truck. That chick just thought
the guy was a friend.

When you cannot win I advise switching sides.

I would put my wife in a headlock and yell "Yo, get this hoes purse fast!"

a reply to: YeahYea4

Now that's creative.

If you're within arms length, an upward thrust grabbing the barrel and pushing it up and out(for pistols), will disarm. With the other hand, you are free to do an upward thrust into their nose, hard enough to penetrate into the brain. Be sure to use your hand on the side the gun is on.

If farther away, shift your body to the side, and calmly approach with 'hands up' to chest level, close enough to take action. People are less likely to respond to slow, calm movements then a sudden rush.

I wouldn't suggest it, you never know the amount of training/skill the person has. If it's an 'attack' or ambush, rather than a hold up, you'll need a lot of luck.