Unarmed, need to take down man with gun. what do?

originally posted by: SirKonstantin
a reply to: Cuervo

Then please take the OPs question, even hypothetical seriously, as there are many other people who will be reading this Thread for information.

Why did you not decide to give a full self defense answer? I do understand your perry technique.but remember, there is someone else in that room with you. Your right, he was not very specific, so a perry to the gun could result in your friend taking a bullet to the face...understand? Gun Control is First and Foremost. I would hope you understand this as well.

Sorry for lashing out, this is a serious Informative topic, and should be taken as such.

Regards,

The whole concept of this is flawed. For several reasons. The first being you could think through this all day long. You may even have training. Fact is until it happened you really don't know if fight, flight, or freeze will kick in. Even with training where replicas or whatever are used the initial reaction of this is real changes it. anything but fight kicks in, game over. Second if fight does kick in then is the gun coming over top, from below up, right to left, what hand does the perp have it in. Are the people with you behind you , to your left to your right. How is the perp standing? Can you take a guess on possible caliber of the bullet coming out. If it happens you have to hope that the initial response is fight, make split second determination on a slew of things, and hope whatever decision is made is executed properly. You can think about a general question all day long. More times than not, out the window when it really happens. Offering advice on these topics may get someone hurt.

Learn something like Krav Maga.

Asking ATS will get you lots of answers on lots of topics.

The only way way to learn unarmed self defense is to train in unarmed self defense, not read about it.

Pretend to comply, close to within 20 feet or closer if possible , keep talking calmly like you are perfectly comfortable that he is in charge.

Keep talking, distract his mind.

As soon as his eyes move away in thought....

Why did you let him get that close? If I have my weapon drawn, you're going to stop or you're going to die. I'm not letting you walk toward me, calmly or any other way. You stop when I tell you and one more step earns you a bullet.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

And being just critical only to rely on luck is better? The OP did state this is hypothetical, and the answers are given as such.

Your right on one thing, It does depend on the Persons Mentality. Training or not, if you don't have it in you, then you just don't have it in you. I could only hope that the individuals I surround myself with are fighters as well.(just like the brave people during that Train in Pairs takedown).

Regards,

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Learn something like Krav Maga.

Asking ATS will get you lots of answers on lots of topics.

The only way way to learn unarmed self defense is to train in unarmed self defense, not read about it.

Solid advice right here!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I was extensively trained in this very situation, it is easy to talk about, and explain.

But after a dozen tries I only succeeded twice.

After a hundred times it got more natural and ingot a little better, but not even close to 100 percent.

Call it 60 winning 40 losing.

But I will take 6/10 over definitely losing all day every day!

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Learn something like Krav Maga.

Asking ATS will get you lots of answers on lots of topics.

The only way way to learn unarmed self defense is to train in unarmed self defense, not read about it.

Excluding the Krav Maga.....Your right, the only way to prepare IS to train, not read about it. (As i have suggested)

Regards,

a reply to: Reallyfolks

That's probably closer to truth than what the rest of us have said. I've been shot at before and the only thing I could manage to do is huddle over a couple of stranger's kids until it stopped. I didn't go into "Xena" mode and rock some worlds even though I've been through hypotheticals in class and in my imagination countless times.

There's this one program I clicked on a couple of years ago about defending yourself in a high-stress situation like that. The guy selling it took into account that your limbs go numb and your brain doesn't work properly. The actual style and moves were hilarious but they made sense because they were designed with average people mentally shutting down but still being able to fight. I'm talking like flailing belly flops and weird crap like that, if memory serves me correctly.

You win some fights and lose some fights but rarely, if ever, do confrontations go the way they do in your imagination.

originally posted by: DAVID64

Pretend to comply, close to within 20 feet or closer if possible , keep talking calmly like you are perfectly comfortable that he is in charge.

Keep talking, distract his mind.

As soon as his eyes move away in thought....

Why did you let him get that close? If I have my weapon drawn, you're going to stop or you're going to die. I'm not letting you walk toward me, calmly or any other way. You stop when I tell you and one more step earns you a bullet.

Sounds good on paper but in reality, that is barely ever the case.

That is why the military and cops are trained in this tactic, it works most of the time.

Look it up, I'm not making this up at all, that is the training.

Because it is the most effective method.

Making the attacker feel superior works in almost all cases, so that you can close the distance.

Best advice I can give get a airsoft gun and practise alot tell u know when it's posable and when it's not

If u don't have that I'll never know when is time

Without getting close to u it's alot harder to tie u up

If there just robbing u whatever live to fight another day

Yea tho I'd rather die trying than let anyone touch my family

originally posted by: SirKonstantin
a reply to: Reallyfolks

And being just critical only to rely on luck is better? The OP did state this is hypothetical, and the answers are given as such.

Your right on one thing, It does depend on the Persons Mentality. Training on not, if you don't have it in you, then you just don't have it in you. I could only hope that the individuals I surround myself with are fighters as well.(just like the brave people during that Train in Pairs takedown).

Regards,

If I recall correctly one of the guys involved in that had the initial response of freeze. Shook it off, rest is history. In the op scenario not sure that would be an option. I really believe in this scenario that initial fight , flight, freeze reaction probably is going to be a big part of it. Just no way to determine until it happens. Based on everything over the years I would like to go into fight mode, truth maybe I throw my hands up, drop to my knees, and freeze. Get everyone killed.

In air rescue , we learned a lot on unarmed combat. How to take someone out quietly and quickly. There are no "proven" methods that will work every time. Just the ones to use in case you are ever in this situation.What does help is "lady luck" being on your side.

This will be interesting to you guys who aren't aware of some of the tactics from both sides. Yes I know its more about the gun wielder, but it illuminates the issue from both sides quite well. All I can say is practice practice practice no matter what side you're on.

If someone is within gripping range and points a pistol at you, it will usually be with their right hand, grab their trigger hand with your left hand and shove the barrel straight back at them with your right in one quick fluid motion. It is a technique that requires practice. If properly executed you can make them shoot their self in the face.

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Here,s what I did.
Pulled up in front of the local liquor store with my
girl and jumped out to go inside while she waited.
This black guy was out in front and he asked me
If l could get him some smoke? I said all smart
ass, " Man how do l know you,re not a cop?"

Guy whips out this nice nickle plated ruger
357 revolver. Lays it in hand on my hood pointed
right at my sternum and says "Ya l,m a cop and here,s my badge".
I froze for like two seconds, then relaxed and said,
" Man that,s a nice ####en gun". He lifted it back up off my
Hood and agreed with me. Then l asked him if l could
check it out and he handed right over. I just looked at
it handed it back n told him l didn,t have what he was look n for.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

Here,s what I did.
Pulled up in front of the local liquor store with my
girl and jumped out to go inside while she waited.
This black guy was out in front and he asked me
If l could get him some smoke? I said all smart
ass, " Man how do l know you,re not a cop?"

Guy whips out this nice nickle plated ruger
357 revolver. Lays it in hand on my hood pointed
right at my sternum and says "Ya l,m a cop and here,s my badge".
I froze for like two seconds, then relaxed and said,
" Man that,s a nice ####en gun". He lifted it back up off my
Hood and agreed with me. Then l asked him if l could
check it out and he handed right over. I just looked at
it handed it back n told him l didn,t have what he was look n for.

That's like the epitome of smooth. Well done.

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior

In a rush situation, the armed attacker will respond by trying to bring the weapon up to the correct height to cause injury or death by application of force to the trigger. Therefore, it is necessary to first interrupt that chain of events. Controlling the gun, ensuring it remains pointed down and away from yourself and other innocent parties in the room, is where you begin... But just how is that done?

Well it depends on the angle of approach, but there are a number of different methods which can work. The best way is to get to the shooter before their arm has a chance to raise at all, meaning that when you grab them, they have not yet achieved a shooters stance or bought both arms together at all. This means that they have no opportunity to make a strong stance against having their weapon arm grabbed, and disarmed in short order. Approach at speed, grasping their weapon hand and the wrist of the same arm. Still grabbing that hand and wrist, use the momentum with which you approached, and move past them on the weapon hand side, twisting the wrist as you go. Aim to end up stepping around to face your opponents rear by the end of the movement. If you do it fast enough, the wrist will break, rendering them less able to keep grip on the weapon, or maintain the direction in which the weapon is being pointed.

If they let go in that split second it takes to make this move, take the gun, shoot em in the knees, and then call the police. If they do not let go of the weapon, then before they bring their other arm into play, utilise that broken wrist, twist the hand with the gun in it until it faces their torso at a downward angle, preferably one which promotes penetration of the bowel and lower digestive organs generally, then empty the magazine while the gun is still in their hand. Remember, there is no law which states you must care a damn whether your attacker dies or not once they have threatened you with a gun.

Some pistols operate in such a way, that another tactic would be to isolate the slide mechanism from functioning, preventing the weapon from cycling and firing. Some can be de-magged easier than others as well, although that may mean one round left in the chamber. An awful lot depends on the precise firearm, and indeed the experience of the gunman, not to mention the defender in the scenario. My preference would be to live in a nation where I am permitted to carry a blade of over three inches long for my personal defence, because that would give me the option of controlling the weapon hand, cutting the throat, the under arm, and the groin, and then taking the weapon from the limp, and unresistant fingers of an individual who has suddenly found that all the blood they had stored so neatly about their person, has just fallen out of them at an alarming, and unquestionably terminal rate.

You could go full Joker on their ass. Open a jacket lined with sticks of dynamite and grenades and hold a rip cord.
"Why so serious?"
They may still shoot you, but the look on their face would be priceless.

a reply to: skunkape23

Well if we are going down that route, there is always a little sleight of hand... Everyone loves watching a pencil disappear after all!

Every situation opens its self up to its own interpretation

Bang! you're dead

I suggest not finding yourself in that compromising position...Unarmed

toss a grenade at their feet, they will want to quickly Exit the AO

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: skunkape23

Well if we are going down that route, there is always a little sleight of hand... Everyone loves watching a pencil disappear after all!

Taa Daaaa!