Gender neutral craze comes to The University of Tennesee

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Okay, let's try it this way:

Do you believe that the brain is important? Do you believe that the brain is basically "the ruler" of the body, i.e., it tells all the body parts what to do? Do you agree that without the brain, the body parts aren't going to work (not without medical assistance)?

Now, can you see that a brain that is telling the body what to do, can also be telling the body that it is a different gender than what the body parts say? That isn't social gender vs biological gender. The brain IS a biological part of the body, just as much as the penis or vagina is. We are talking brain gender vs physical gender. The scientists say that our consciousness comes not from our body parts, but from our brains. We live our day-to-day lives by our consciousness more than we live by our body parts. If our consciousness is telling us that we are what our body parts tell us we are (as most people's consciousness does), then there is no issue. We "feel" like what we look like.

But sometimes, and we don't exactly know why, our consciousness, i.e., the physical, biological brain, tells us that we are a different gender than what the body parts are. So, do we go by what our brain, which is the essence of our consciousness, says - or do we go simply what the body part says and go against our brain/consciousness?

Since your biological brain is telling you that you are what your body part says, you don't have any problems. Can you try, even for a few minutes to ignore your body parts and go against your brain and convince yourself that you are a different gender? Now try doing it for the rest of your life. I bet you can't go against your brain. That is how important and powerful the brain/consciousness is.

I think brain gender reigns supreme, because I believe consciousness reigns supreme. Because without our consciousness, we are just dead meat.

Ok, and whats to say in the end that this isn't a disorder after all? I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but if someone comes up to you saying they are an alien from omicron percei 8, your first thought might be that they are crazy and should be committed.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

Oooh, you so clever. Because just like gender is and has always been part of being a human, so an inanimate object is and has always been a part of being a human.

originally posted by: continuousThunder
a reply to: Stormdancer777

idk, it seems to me like what i'm talking about is equal treatment. You get the pronouns that feel right for you, i get the ones that feel right for me, and my friend who prefers neutral pronouns gets theirs. that kind of seems like the most equal way things could possibly be??

I have a question on that though. I work with a tight group of people. One of the things you will hear from all us throughout the day is name calling and put downs. To us it it breaks up the boredom, and what you will also hear is a bunch of laugyter, the day goes by quicker, the large projects are done , there is nothing nobody on the team wouldn't do for anyone else. You have an emergency? Will double our workload , take care of what you need, when you get back nothing is said and so forth. Not too many days we are not together at lunch still exchanging put downs , still calling names, etc. This is considered the rite of passage by all. Everyone on the team partakes, men, women. Black, white, indian..whatever. worked well.

One day new person. Couple of weeks goes by rite of passage. Very offended, complaint. We got it. We continued on with what we did but didn't involved the new person. Now two complaints we were offensive and exclusive. Ok adjust again now we got quiet around each other, and we're strictly business around New person. We had our wink/nods still go to lunch, still laughter is going on but because the talk is going through instant messaging. Not being spoken. Guess what, another complaint. New person or not so new at this time now feels they are being treated differently and excluded but can't quite. Put their finger on it.

How did this all start? By treating them just like we treated everyone else. Didn't want that. Every adjustment led to another complaint. After we caught wind of last complaint, me being me flat out asked this person how they wanted to be treated. Response: like everyone else, equal respect..????

So see sometimes it's not really treating people the same way, sometimes doing that leads to issues. And in many cases it seems that people don't want to be treated the same they want to be treated in a certain way or special. But the truth is your not special. Not if you are treated the same.

The end result, will be a team meeting over lunch to see how to proceed, given the rules and complaints, so we can treat this person the same as we do each other with the same respect level, but not really. And now a large group of people are are at a loss, trying to be equal but it wasn't considered right. A catch 22, and I see the same on many of these social issues and to be honest. Should 16 people now adjust to what still can't be identified as equal? If the answer is yes, that's not equal, that's the opposite of it.

a reply to: Wardaddy454

It's a physical brain anomaly, but not a psychotic illness that requires being committed to an institution. A person with a psychotic illness has trouble holding down jobs, maintaining relationships, or even communicating with other people. Have you read any of the posts by the transgender people on this site? Do you think they have any problem holding down jobs, maintaining relationships or communicating with other people? To me, they seem like intelligent, articulate, successful people whose brain gender was simply different than their physical gender.

I'm not saying that it's not possible for a transgender person to have a psychotic illness, just as it is possible for a non-transgender person to have a psychotic illness. But being a transgender person in and of itself is not a psychotic illness.

a reply to: continuousThunder

I do feel that made my thinking push forward. I'm sure that your friend understand their are include when I use masculin in front of a group, that prevent me to forgething people. The use of a new pronouns is just not usefull in that case, it's just giving the chance to segregate. Everyone is special, there are no need to underline the difference between class of people. If I write something I won't use the new pronouns, because I already included everyone.

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Reallyfolks

The social aspect of gender gets much more complex and seems to be people pushing the social aspect of gender that deem it so complex, anyone else is not educated etc.

i heard that, they start calling your thoughts or ideas antiquated, or that you lack knowledge, or that your on a 8th grade level in that knowlege. then refer you to something they themselves wrote and expect you to learn something.

Again I'm simple, reproduction is a base requirement for survival of any species.

have you ever notice that those that have the views about which we speak, are some of the loudest backers of evolution.
and that their position if carried out to it's fullest GRS, is contrary to evolution.

Yes I have noticed that, which leads me back to Darwin.

They will remove themselves from the gene pool, thus enrichment of said Gene pool without the faulty genes that cause these disorders.

Soon enough they will all be gone, and only us normal folks will remain.

Is it evolution at work?

Seems that way.

No, you're incorrect. They will reproduce.

First, it's basic knowledge we have lots of sperm in our sperm banks. There're lots of woman who use it to have babies because one reason or another they're unable to produce one with their husband or through intercourse. Procedures exist to directly fertilize the egg. There's enough sperm to fertilize many generations of children.

Second, they've been researching methods to fertilize eggs without male sperm for a while now. Here (July 2001):
news.bbc.co.uk - Eggs fertilised without sperm...

Third, artificial sperm/eggs:
www.cbsnews.com - Scientists create artificial human eggs and sperm...

Fourth, there's the possibility male couples could have a baby too--maybe this one is further in the future:
www.thedailybeast.com - Men Will Someday Have Kids Without Women...
www.pinknews.co.uk - Babies with two biological same-sex parents could become a reality in just two years...

This article sums it all up:
theweek.com - Coming soon: Making babies... without sperm?...

We no longer live in the stone age when a man was needed to make up for a womans weaknesses. Woman have no weaknesses now. For example, muscles are the biggest difference, but they don't matter anymore. Technology has rendered a man's muscles unimportant in the grand scheme of things. In the past woman frequently remained uneducated because of discrimination and motherhood. The man was expected to have a career. But this has changed. Woman can have careers. And because of day care centers, they can have children too, even if they do not have a spouse.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Wardaddy454

It's a physical brain anomaly, but not a psychotic illness that requires being committed to an institution. A person with a psychotic illness has trouble holding down jobs, maintaining relationships, or even communicating with other people. Have you read any of the posts by the transgender people on this site? Do you think they have any problem holding down jobs, maintaining relationships or communicating with other people? To me, they seem like intelligent, articulate, successful people whose brain gender was simply different than their physical gender.

I'm not saying that it's not possible for a transgender person to have a psychotic illness, just as it is possible for a non-transgender person to have a psychotic illness. But being a transgender person in and of itself is not a psychotic illness.

Never said it was a psychotic illness. Depression is an illness, and plenty of people hold down jobs, maintain relationships and communicate with other people, I should know as I'm one among many. But it is still an illness.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Gee, I've worked with a tight group of people before, and we made jokes to break up the boredom without name calling or personal put downs. Huh. Wonder how we did that?

originally posted by: jonnywhite

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Reallyfolks

The social aspect of gender gets much more complex and seems to be people pushing the social aspect of gender that deem it so complex, anyone else is not educated etc.

i heard that, they start calling your thoughts or ideas antiquated, or that you lack knowledge, or that your on a 8th grade level in that knowlege. then refer you to something they themselves wrote and expect you to learn something.

Again I'm simple, reproduction is a base requirement for survival of any species.

have you ever notice that those that have the views about which we speak, are some of the loudest backers of evolution.
and that their position if carried out to it's fullest GRS, is contrary to evolution.

Yes I have noticed that, which leads me back to Darwin.

They will remove themselves from the gene pool, thus enrichment of said Gene pool without the faulty genes that cause these disorders.

Soon enough they will all be gone, and only us normal folks will remain.

Is it evolution at work?

Seems that way.

No, you're incorrect. They will reproduce.

First, it's basic knowledge we have lots of sperm in our sperm banks. There're lots of woman who use it to have babies because one reason or another they're unable to produce one with their husband. Procedures exist to directly fertilize the egg. There's enough sperm to fertilize many generations of children.

Second, they've been researching methods to fertilize eggs without male sperm for a while now. Here (July 2001):
news.bbc.co.uk - Eggs fertilised without sperm...

Third, artificial sperm/eggs:
www.cbsnews.com - Scientists create artificial human eggs and sperm...

Fourth, there's the possibility male couples could have a baby too--maybe this one is further in the future:
www.thedailybeast.com - Men Will Someday Have Kids Without Women...

Wow, so they weren't kidding about the war on men after all.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Shamrock6

We should have never allowed women the right to vote.

It's been going downhill since then.

Chicks be trippin', yo.

That's what happens when you start showing off ankles. The world goes to hell in a hand basket.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Okay, let's try it this way:

Do you believe that the brain is important? Do you believe that the brain is basically "the ruler" of the body, i.e., it tells all the body parts what to do? Do you agree that without the brain, the body parts aren't going to work (not without medical assistance)?

Now, can you see that a brain that is telling the body what to do, can also be telling the body that it is a different gender than what the body parts say? That isn't social gender vs biological gender. The brain IS a biological part of the body, just as much as the penis or vagina is. We are talking brain gender vs physical gender. The scientists say that our consciousness comes not from our body parts, but from our brains. We live our day-to-day lives by our consciousness more than we live by our body parts. If our consciousness is telling us that we are what our body parts tell us we are (as most people's consciousness does), then there is no issue. We "feel" like what we look like.

But sometimes, and we don't exactly know why, our consciousness, i.e., the physical, biological brain, tells us that we are a different gender than what the body parts are. So, do we go by what our brain, which is the essence of our consciousness, says - or do we go simply what the body part says and go against our brain/consciousness?

Since your biological brain is telling you that you are what your body part says, you don't have any problems. Can you try, even for a few minutes to ignore your body parts and go against your brain and convince yourself that you are a different gender? Now try doing it for the rest of your life. I bet you can't go against your brain. That is how important and powerful the brain/consciousness is.

I think brain gender reigns supreme, because I believe consciousness reigns supreme. Because without our consciousness, we are just dead meat.

Great, a lot of organs are needed and without which you arent living. The thing is if you want to go the route of social gender indentification have at it. This view that you can't or shouldn't be fitting people into a gender box is off. As I explained two gender roles, eggs, sperm ones man, ones woman. Want to claim another route in the social identity scene, have fun. The whole concept of gender neutrality just isn't the fact, biologically speaking. But to bring up reality is apparently wrong because the social aspect outweighs biological aspect. Whole thing is nothing short of full on crazy. I find it even crazier that the people claiming the social aspect of gender over rides any biological facts and you are insert name to disagree. You are a man or woman. If it feels better to Say otherwise have at it, facts do not change. And honestly get over yourself, people pushing the social gender aspect are no better or more enlightened. We simply see it a different way. Biology/socially.

a reply to: Shamrock6

a reply to: Wardaddy454

But depression is an illness you would rather not have, correct? You have meds to try to correct the situation. Sometimes, mental therapy can help diminish or remove the depression. Aren't you interested in trying to fix it? If you were told there is a cure for your depression, wouldn't you want it?

There are no psych meds a transgender can take to correct their situation. There is no mental therapy that will diminish or remove the gender dysphoria. Believe me, the mental health field spent many years trying. The only cure is to match the physical with what the brain says. It is amazing how many times that "cures" the problem. When the brain and body match, no more dysphoria. Now you have a normal person who can live a happy healthy life, as you have seen the transgender posters on this thread prove. Are you against a person living a happy healthy life?

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Not. Social.

Physical. Biological. Brain. Consciousness.

originally posted by: Khaleesi
a reply to: Shamrock6

That....

Was simply amazing.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Gee, I've worked with a tight group of people before, and we made jokes to break up the boredom without name calling or personal put downs. Huh. Wonder how we did that?

Only explanation is intelligence level. Has to be, nothing else could. Every person of every race/religion/gender on our team are a bunch of dumb, racists, knuckle dragging sexists? I'll make sure we discuss that next lunch.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Wardaddy454

But depression is an illness you would rather not have, correct? You have meds to try to correct the situation. Sometimes, mental therapy can help diminish or remove the depression. Aren't you interested in trying to fix it? If you were told there is a cure for your depression, wouldn't you want it?

There are no psych meds a transgender can take to correct their situation. There is no mental therapy that will diminish or remove the gender dysphoria. Believe me, the mental health field spent many years trying. The only cure is to match the physical with what the brain says. It is amazing how many times that "cures" the problem. When the brain and body match, no more dysphoria. Now you have a normal person who can live a happy healthy life, as you have seen the transgender posters on this thread prove. Are you against a person living a happy healthy life?

Nope I don't have a problem with that. But you shouldn't speak for all trans gendered either. There have been plenty of post op trans genders who were still not happy with themselves, to the point of obsession.

Aside from that the mental health field took a pretty big blow recently with a study saying many psychology findings are not as strong as claimed, therefore what we know or think we know cannot be absolute.

a reply to: kaylaluv

The two roles that a person can take in the reproductive cycle (eggs, sperm). You get no more physical, medical, or factual than that. Everything else is feelings.

Would someone please put this into a form of a conversation to show me exactly how it would be used,

Kinda like Dick and Jane,

thank you

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Oooh, you so clever. Because just like gender is and has always been part of being a human, so an inanimate object is and has always been a part of being a human.

Well, that's how I feel.