Trump is KILLING the Republican chances for Presidency

IF the Republians are anti-Hispanic: ah, hyperbole and outright deceit

Republicans in their Own Words - Hispanics and Immigration

Deportation is the common theme there; see for yourself.

Everything Latino -Latino voters strongly reject anti-immigrant posturing from House Republicans

77% of Latino Voters are opposed to Republican positions on immigration.

I guess THE HISPANIC AMERICANS are the ones who say that the Republican Party is anti-Hispanic.

I know that many here don't place any credence in what some Americans (like Latinos) actually say ... because, you know, after all ...

a reply to: Reallyfolks

I'm not a Democrat. I'm an independent. I've said it several times in this thread, including the opening post. I can't vote in the Democratic primaries because I'm a registered Libertarian.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Reallyfolks

I'm not a Democrat. I'm an independent. I've said it several times in this thread, including the opening post. I can't vote in the Democratic primaries because I'm a registered Libertarian.

You're either for 'em or against 'em, Krazy ... that's the rationale of extremism.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: enlightenedservant

But that's the thing. If the Republican party would actually learn its lesson and change to be more inclusive towards Hispanics and blacks, it would FORCE the Democratic party to follow through on its rhetoric for once lest they lose a voting block they've taken for granted for so long. THAT would actually shake things up for the better, instead of what Trump is doing.

Oh, I agree with what you're saying. In fact, there are a few major battles going on about that right now in the real left wing. Though I admit, I don't even waste my time talking about that stuff here, since I'm realizing most people here don't actually want to discuss policy & the real (cough cough boring cough) details in politics. Two examples:

1. The DNC is facing a funding crisis because individuals have stopped donating to them. Instead, there's been a massive push to only donate to specific candidates. It's been an organized effort because many within the left wing are sick of "Third Way" Democrats and neo-liberals. You'd think they would've understood when the "Blue Dog Dems" got swept out of office, but instead, the national leadership doubled down on pushing center-right candidates. Screw that.

2. What's going on with Bernie Sanders and many components within different African American communities. Many outsiders (and Bernie-only supporters) see it as a dumb fight. But it's actually more of a trial by fire. We've heard so many politicians, Repub & Dem, say they'll do this & that when they need our votes. But they never follow through. So now it's simply a test for him. Is he going to sweep us aside the way the other arrogant Dems do or is he going to actually listen & work with us? So far he's been doing great & is making the necessary changes to make sure we're not taken for granted by his campaign.

I mentioned these to give a better understanding of why the Dems could be in major trouble if they keep taking our votes for granted. The same ones who complained about the low midterm election turnout for youth & minorities were the same ones who didn't know why we were protesting for new minimum wage laws or doing the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" protests. And the Hispanic communities have been marching and protesting for years, but they don't even get basic press coverage. So if the Repubs actually got their acts together on equality issues, they'd be set.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yea, I agree. The way to the end zone is clear as day. Too bad the Republicans are fumbling the snap...

As for Bernie, please keep testing him. I want SOOO badly to support him. His voting record is pretty consistent, so that is promising, but I'm just so jaded from years of deceitful politicians telling us what we want to hear. So I kind of know where you are coming from here (I say kind of since I'm white and I can't TOTALLY know where you are coming from).

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yea I know... I wish people would educate themselves better in that regard. Reality can rarely ever be distilled down into either/or situations.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Reallyfolks

I'm not a Democrat. I'm an independent. I've said it several times in this thread, including the opening post. I can't vote in the Democratic primaries because I'm a registered Libertarian.

That's cool, I be made my decision. I will write in one of two names depending on the mood I am election day.

I think as shrewd a business man as Trump is, having the GOP lose is not beyond the scope of his agenda. He may be doing this on purpose to LOSE.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Really, what do you think the Democrats conned the people into accepting?
...
Im sure theres a lot Ive forgotten.

Like paragraphs?

Also, what on Earth does any of that have to do with what I posted? It's like you ignored my entire post except the word "con", then got mad, and had to call me out. Also, I'm not a Democrat so what do I care? I readily admit they talk about issues I care about then abandon those same issues right after the election.

How about socialism, Marxism, communism all rolled up into a nice little slogan

Socialism, Marxism, and communism aren't the same things. Marxism is a type of communism, but the US doesn't have either of the 2. If it did, our industries would be owned by the federal government & all of the profits from those companies would be equally spread among the citizens. Clearly that's not happening.

socialized healthcare

We don't have socialized health care, except maybe Medicare & the VA. But even those are a far cry from real socialized health care, which would be a non-profit universal healthcare system, which we clearly don't have. Yet.

and auto industry, huge bailouts including Freddie/fannie,

I don't understand? Helping American companies is bad now? My only problem with the bailouts is that they didn't make the corporations pay for them through increased tax rates. Also, how on Earth are they communist/Marxist when they bailed out the capitalist banking system and propped up the capitalist stock markets? That's a contradiction.

wholesale genocide of unborn with trafficking in their little aborted parts

Wait a second, both Repubs & Dems in Congress voted on those laws. And the current candidate Ben Carson actually did experiments with those aborted fetuses. So if you're going to bring that up, be honest about it. Also, I distinctly remember the Repubs having the Presidency, Congress, and a majority on the Supreme Court for the first 6 years of Bush's time in office. If y'all really cared about that stuff, why didn't you outlaw it when you had the power to outlaw it?

...prolonged unemployment

Really?

, stupid rules of engagement and continuation of wars despite the best rhetoric, oh by the way now fighting ISIS...

I hate their wars too. But you can't honestly point towards only 1 side when it comes to recent wars. I seem to remember someone else starting the long wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. And don't act like it's only one party pushing for wars. Remember "bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran"?

more Agenda 21 garbage(the Presidents Council on Urban Development)

So what is the Repub leadership doing to fight Agenda 21, assuming it's even being implemented? Last I heard, they were in favor of increased militarization of law enforcement while progressives (not Dems) were fighting it.

sacking the coal industry in the name of fighting global warming, I mean climate change..I mean....

Coal sucks. That's a good thing.

oh yes and Common Core(taking away states rights and replacing with centralized control)

Common Core was passed with bipartisan support & is still being pushed by both parties. Repubs control a majority of State governorships (31) & State legislatures (68 out of 98 partisan state legislative chambers). If they wanted to fight Common Core, they could do so. Instead they fear monger while actually implementing it & maintaining it.

Bill Gates billionaire philanthropist turned educator who peddles vaccines in Africa and other places.

One of the few things I like about Bush was his "Pepfar" program, (President's Emergency Plan for Aids Relief). It helped with health care issues throughout Africa. So what's so bad about this?

Seems to me like you just wanted to throw a lot of stuff out & hoped that something would stick. Unfortunately, I have a little more free time so I don't mind pointing these out.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Sorry, but Trump has many of our votes and a chance to win. It isn't our BEST choice...it isn't even the choice we WANT. But it is better than what we currently have, what we are being promised (more lies) and what the left is putting up. At least to us.

You don't have to apologize to me. I know all of this rhetoric already. I know why you like him. I'm trying to tell you with this OP that that rhetoric isn't a valid path to the Presidency. I've backed this up with data and statistics that show that this very rhetoric is driving away the Hispanic vote, and the Hispanic vote is necessary to get the Presidency these days.

Also, keep in mind, Trump wants to END birthright citizenship. That is wrong on so many levels.

But...what you may be suggesting is a lie. If the right agenda excludes illegal aliens (for example), they should say that and stick to it. They shouldn't lie just to win votes and/or get the Presidency. As much as this may be a losing attitude...I'd rather tell the truth about who and what I am and fail, than lie just to get a position. That (to me) is a democratic position...lie about what you are and when you win, do whatever the hell you want. That is also one of the things I loath about the left...and now-a-days...the right. My morals are higher than that.

IMO the GOP has done more damage to the Republican party than Trump ever could.

The GOP endorsed candidates have gone against their core values when it comes to action:

1. They have created and supported bigger gov't

2. They side with Federal Laws versus state rights.

3. They don't believe in the free market and use tax payers money to bailout private institutions.

4. The haven't significantly decreased taxes or gov't programs for numerous decades.

5. Their endorsed candidates are the more statistically likely to lose.

6. Their campaign slogan is vote for the lesser evil.

7. They made Obamacare the number 1 issue in their last campaign and they select the guy who implemented Romenycare and praised gov't mandated healthcare in his state.

8. The say they don't believe in welfare programs for America but then they go and spend billions in giving aid to foreign welfare programs.

9. The have not deregulated anything of significance and the one thing they were dead set in de regulating was the only consumer friendly regulation called: net neutrality.

10. They have yet to significantly cut gov't spending or reduced taxes to a significant amount.

11. There refusal to get out of non gov't issues such as sexuality and religion.

So I say that Donald is not what is killing the Republicans chances , he is just the consequence of what the GOP has done to their party.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yea, I agree. The way to the end zone is clear as day. Too bad the Republicans are fumbling the snap...

As for Bernie, please keep testing him. I want SOOO badly to support him. His voting record is pretty consistent, so that is promising, but I'm just so jaded from years of deceitful politicians telling us what we want to hear. So I kind of know where you are coming from here (I say kind of since I'm white and I can't TOTALLY know where you are coming from).

Don't worry about the racial element. Most of my family & extended family are more concerned with daily issues like mortgage payments, school, taking care of the kids &/or grandkids, healthcare, music, sports, traveling, bills, friends, etc. I'm sure you can understand that perspective. When I'm traveling in most big cities, I don't even think about race.

The only reason race keeps coming up is because policies always coincidentally slant against us disproportionately. And our districts almost never get a adequate funding, schools in our neighborhoods always get funding cuts, police patrol our neighborhoods more, etc. And if a situation comes up & it's handled correctly, there's barely a reaction from us. But when a situation comes up & it's obviously not being handled correctly, we tend to speak up.

Most of us have been trying to move on past race for a long time. You can actually see that here on ATS, since most of the African Americans here just ignore the race baiting & kneejerk bigotry. People like me are actually in the minority. And I mostly do it because I'm sick of waiting for other people to treat others equally (and because I'm a jerk).

Oh & I'm not convinced on Bernie yet, either. I'm a socialist so I like that he defends socialism lol. But there's a big nagging feeling telling me to hold back from supporting him for now. (There's no way I'm voting for Hillary) I could never vote for Trump, even though I had one of his books from the 1980s ("The Art of the Deal"). It was a pretty good book too.

a reply to: Krazysh0the isb't really a republican he is running like he always does to make republicans look silly . why are so many people fooled . think about it no one running for president would ever truly speak out so loud on illegal aliens and talk about a wall . it would be campaign suicife why because you would auto lose in cali , new mexico nevada m, and arizona

originally posted by: interupt42
So I say that Donald is not what is killing the Republicans chances , he is just the outcome of what the GOP has done to their party.

I completely agree. We all know there are plenty of people out there who feel disenfranchised. To a large extent, Obama owes his two terms to a huge number of people turning out to vote who usually don't.
Total votes 2000 101M
2004 121M
2008 129M
2012 126M

If enough people who traditionally feel there's no one they can vote for view Trump as a true difference, then he's got a legit shot to com out of the convention with the nomination.

Political savvy and business savvy are two different things. Trump's a helluva marketer, and that's basically what running for office is. Now as we get further along, whether his apparent broad support is deep enough to carry remains to be seen.

I still maintain his 30% means 70% don't like him. I see the likely outcome of people supporting other candidates jumping to someone other than Trump when some of those other candidates drop out.

If you look at the other candidates and polls asking their supporters who their second choice would be, Trump's at the low end of that one.

The flip side is, if Trump would get bored and drop out, I don't see a lot of his supporters staying engaged.

Winning a nomination and winning a general election are completely different and require completely different strategies. If Trump expects to be in it for the long haul, he better get some pros to advise him and he bloody well ought to listen to them.

I don't think he's capable of it. He's going to flame out, then blame everyone in the world but himself. All the media 'losers' and foreign agents sabotaging him.

Right back to Perot and the Vietnamese robot ninjas or Cuban Mafia assassins or whatever it was that screwed him over.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yea, I agree. The way to the end zone is clear as day. Too bad the Republicans are fumbling the snap...

As for Bernie, please keep testing him. I want SOOO badly to support him. His voting record is pretty consistent, so that is promising, but I'm just so jaded from years of deceitful politicians telling us what we want to hear. So I kind of know where you are coming from here (I say kind of since I'm white and I can't TOTALLY know where you are coming from).

Most of us have been trying to move on past race for a long time. You can actually see that here on ATS, since most of the African Americans here just ignore the race baiting & kneejerk bigotry. People like me are actually in the minority. And I mostly do it because I'm sick of waiting for other people to treat others equally (and because I'm a jerk).

... I could never vote for Trump, even though I had one of his books from the 1980s ("The Art of the Deal"). It was a pretty good book too.

Interesting, then how do you feel about Trump
and the way he has demonstrated through his
show that he has a deep and abiding respect
for minorities, by showing them as people
of great intelligence, of great leadership potential?

Does the fact that this time around the Republicans
are fielding 4 minorities for President
and the Democrats are only fielding
old white people
say something to you about who is giving lip
service and who respects minorities as
leaders and people who can make it in
society without handouts?

Many are decrying bigotry in the Republicans,
but the actions show a different picture entirely.
Could it be false accusations in order to keep
minorities on the Democratic voting plantation.

The Democrat policies have done several things to
minorities:
They have worsened race relations to the point
where to me they appear as bad as in the days
of slavery; where 10 years ago I thought I was
seeing great improvement.

They have kept minorities poor and families
divided with welfare policies that encourage
single motherhood and devalue fatherhood;
and perpetuate generational poverty as a norm.

The wide open borders have taken jobs from all
Americans and have hurt the black community
more than any other community according to the
news sources I have been reading.

The Democrats talk racial equality and respect
for minorities, but their actions, their policies
have produced more hardship and pain for
minorities and kept them as voting slaves on
the Democrat plantation, afraid of losing
food and shelter if they don't vote Democrat.
Which party has demonstrated real respect?

Which candidate has demonstrated
through actions,
not words which are
meaningless in the political arena, as we all
are very aware,
but real equality
to the point of saying minorities can be and
are very good leaders for society?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You know, Trump is such a caricature of everyone at this point that I almost expect him at nomination time to come out, say this whole thing was a massive troll, and that those who supported him are what's wrong with America and our politics. He has gone so far off the deep end that I really don't think he's even taking it seriously.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
Here is the problem with real Conservatives and this election. We don't want the far left government we have today. Hillary would probably push things further to the left.

You don't have a far left government, you have by the standards of every other country on earth one of the most right leaning governments. Our left is further to the right than the far right parties of most nations, and they're further to the right than Reagan. By the policies of our government today Reagan would be a liberal.

his words express what we want. And it really isn't that crazy as I'm sure the left thinks. Enforce the existing laws.

The US has the capability to invade one country without compromising national defense (1 is more than anyone else can manage). Trump wants to put boots on the ground in 3 countries. Not only does this seriously weaken our defense but it means we have no spare force projection to use in negotiations against nations like Iran, Russia, and China. Is that really what you want? You want a foreign policy that costs the US trillions of dollars and renders us impotent on the world stage?

We want government to run on a budget WE decide. Here is what you have to spend...spend wisely...get the job done or go away.

Everyone has their pet issues, and no one can fund them with just those peoples support. What you are suggesting here is al a carte taxation. So you don't want to spend on a welfare system? Fine. The only people that would really want to are those that would benefit from it, and they don't have the money to do so. We can take a less extreme notion too like roads. Why should you give up some tax money for roads? If you withhold the money others will probably spend and you can still use the road. The winning move becomes to pay no taxes for anything, and that collapses the government.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

What's wrong with saying these things and actually being honest about them? Or is that something that can't be considered?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

From what I've checked, Bernie is really the only person running who has the same positions as I do on many of the various positions among the different candidates.

a reply to: yeahright

Obama owes his two terms to a huge number of people turning out to vote who usually don't.

True but in addition to that, I also think he owes his last term specifically to the GOP.

The GOP sabotaged their own party last time when they statistically endorsed the guy that was most likely going to cost them the most votes within their own party.

The republican party was separated into two internal camps:

1. The Republican political cheerleaders that always vote republican no matter what. These guys would vote for Romney, Ron Paul, heck even Hitler himself if the GOP endorsed him.

2. The Ron Paul republicans that wanted to see action and not words. These guys would never have voted for Romney it was Ron Paul or no vote.

The GOP chose to go with candidate 1 and they lost the Ron Paul votes that they couldn't have afforded to lose.

In order for the GOP to beat obama they needed all the help it could get including majority of its own party base. When they threw Ron Paul under the bus , they not only lost a good portion of their own party but they also lost the potential of gathering independent voters, even libertarian votes, and not to mention one of the most vigorous grass roots campaign.


IMO , I see no difference between the two parties they both work together for the lobbyist. That last election like many before it, is not about the party winning its about the RIGHT candidate winning.

The insurance industry wanted gov't mandated healthcare so they could be the middleman with minimal liability .

They wanted Obamcare to pass and from a PR angle it was easier for the public to swallow that the democrats passed such program versus the Republicans. It was a setup to make sure Obamacare got passed.

In the end the results are the same:

DNC wins > lobbyist win < consumers lose.

GOP wins > lobbyist win < consumers lose.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I asked you a while back which policies the Republicans are offering to minorities that would make them appealing to minority voters causing them to switch sides. I also said, the skin color thing is only going to matter if one the minority candidates running actually gets the nomination since most minorities are already registered Democrats and Democrats don't vote in Republican primaries.

Here's how Republican candidates favor among the black community:


You'll see that the only one that is favored positively is Ben Carson (likely because of the skin color issue). So I ask again, what POLICIES are the Republicans offering that are going to make them want to switch sides? Stop focusing on just skin color. It's not the only thing that gauges if a minority will vote for someone.