The Self-Delusion of Christians in Their Christianity: Let Us Count the Ways

a reply to: TombEscaper

lol - so to be christian (ie to prove his resurrection, etc) they have to get out from being christian?? Tou don't see a (cough) minor problem with that??

You guys are a laugh a minute with your petty internecine squabbles about who is a true christian!

a reply to: WarminIndy

All lives matter and Christians should be defended whenever they are actually being persecuted just as anyone else should be, but a lot of Christians call things persecution that are not actually persecution. Someone disagreeing with Christian views and pointing out contradictions in the bible or their theology is not persecution, otherwise Christians would be some of the biggest persecutors around simply because they disagree with everyone else's theology and point out contradictions within those theologies.

Persecution shouldn't be a case of someone disagreeing with a particular stance, persecution is when physical harm or threats are made to someone's well being.

a reply to: TombEscaper

Don't let the corruption that has happened to and through the Bible to cloud your judgment of that transcendent opus given to mankind for furthering cosmic evolution. The divine orchestration of the Bible can be proven beyond all doubt.

If that were the case, then the whole world would believe it. (That's your cue - so prove it.)

Personally I find much more divinity in a gorgeous sunrise, or a hurricane, or a meteor shower, or a mountain range.
Or a plant sprouting from a seed and growing into a glorious flower. Or the eyes of a newborn.
And especially in beautiful pieces of music.

The Bible? No.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

All lives matter and Christians should be defended whenever they are actually being persecuted just as anyone else should be, but a lot of Christians call things persecution that are not actually persecution. Someone disagreeing with Christian views and pointing out contradictions in the bible or their theology is not persecution, otherwise Christians would be some of the biggest persecutors around simply because they disagree with everyone else's theology and point out contradictions within those theologies.

Persecution shouldn't be a case of someone disagreeing with a particular stance, persecution is when physical harm or threats are made to someone's well being.

Then I suppose that Christians on these threads aren't persecuting gays by taking a stance, because they aren't threatening harm against them.

I'm Christian, but I have to point that out because some others might catch it and use it as an argument against you.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TombEscaper

Don't let the corruption that has happened to and through the Bible to cloud your judgment of that transcendent opus given to mankind for furthering cosmic evolution. The divine orchestration of the Bible can be proven beyond all doubt.

If that were the case, then the whole world would believe it. (That's your cue - so prove it.)

Personally I find much more divinity in a gorgeous sunrise, or a hurricane, or a meteor shower, or a mountain range.
Or a plant sprouting from a seed and growing into a glorious flower. Or the eyes of a newborn.
And especially in beautiful pieces of music.

The Bible? No.

To be fair, the Bible actually does teach all of those things also, that nature is an expression of the divine. And that's how people worshiped the divine, before the Bible was written.

If you say that you see the divine in nature, then you do. Some people though would worship the creation more than the Creator, and since belief in a Creator is ancient and in all cultures, then you wouldn't be wrong in that.

Even some Native Americans believed that all of nature was by the Creator and appreciated the beauty in it. Remember, some people have limited God to only one time and space, Israel at that time. To be honest, there are a lot of Christians of orthodoxy who don't really believe God is still found anywhere except in the Bible, as though God stopped working one day and sat back and does nothing else today.

Even to them, they think others must believe in only an ideology of Jesus, as though one should believe only in a limited Jesus and then they don't even get the basic facts about Him right. Only in the last 20 years have people began to see that Jesus was not Gentile, even though It says nowhere that He was, He was Jewish, but because nobody wanted to be Jewish or think Christianity came from that, they denied Jesus as what the Bible actually said.

So now, because some Christians have misrepresented, the rest of the world thinks that is what Christianity is. Some Christians are really part of a new religion that has no similar teachings with the first church. But if you say you see the divine in nature, yes, you do. And I'm not going to argue that you do.

You appreciate it and that makes you connected to it.

I know you are not atheist because you do believe in the divine. You just haven't identified the divine with post-modern Christianity.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Thanks, Indy. I remember one of my favorite things about church (Episcopal) as a kid was the music (traditional pipe organ and choir, sometimes with brass and strings as well - classical music and traditional hymnal). Another was the interior - and the exterior - a stone church with beautiful stained glass.

One of my favorite hymns was "All Things Bright & Beautiful".

I just never believed in the resurrection stuff, or that Jesus was ever talking about anything but the Cosmic Unity of all things. Modern Christianity in its most evangelical, fundamentalist, Bible-Thumping Holy-Roller "you're going to hell unless you believe this tall tale of Jesus" makes me gag. And what it does to little children is my main reason for "persecuting" it.
Not because it's fun. (Although having a sense of humor about the whole thing helps.)

Anyway, yes...we will all get there - but I don't think it's going to be ANYTHING like what modern Western Christianity spews. All the vitriol and condemnation and exclusive fear-mongering and holier-than-thou stuff makes me sick.

Seede mentioned the Synagogue of James, which sounds interesting, but I was unable to find anything about it via an internet search. Do you happen to have any resources about it?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Then I suppose that Christians on these threads aren't persecuting gays by taking a stance, because they aren't threatening harm against them.

Yes, THEY ARE persecuting them and threatening harm against them!!
Threatening them with being denied services, by shunning them and withholding civil rights, and by proxy threatening them with hell. As if it's any of their GD business.

Christians in the bizarro Evangelical world instill FEAR and self-loathing into their members; when they do this to little children, it leaves a scar forever. Cradle to grave misery and lack of self-worth. It's CRAP.

IT'S CRAP!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TombEscaper

Don't let the corruption that has happened to and through the Bible to cloud your judgment of that transcendent opus given to mankind for furthering cosmic evolution. The divine orchestration of the Bible can be proven beyond all doubt.

If that were the case, then the whole world would believe it. (That's your cue - so prove it.)

Personally I find much more divinity in a gorgeous sunrise, or a hurricane, or a meteor shower, or a mountain range.
Or a plant sprouting from a seed and growing into a glorious flower. Or the eyes of a newborn.
And especially in beautiful pieces of music.

The Bible? No.

To be fair, the Bible actually does teach all of those things also, that nature is an expression of the divine. And that's how people worshiped the divine, before the Bible was written.

If you say that you see the divine in nature, then you do. Some people though would worship the creation more than the Creator, and since belief in a Creator is ancient and in all cultures, then you wouldn't be wrong in that.

Even some Native Americans believed that all of nature was by the Creator and appreciated the beauty in it. Remember, some people have limited God to only one time and space, Israel at that time. To be honest, there are a lot of Christians of orthodoxy who don't really believe God is still found anywhere except in the Bible, as though God stopped working one day and sat back and does nothing else today. .

This all sounds like pagan practices to me. And that makes sense, since Christianity adopted many pagan beliefs to accommodate more people into their religion.

a reply to: Philippines

And that makes sense, since Christianity adopted many pagan beliefs to accommodate more people into their religion.

Which came first? Appreciation for the nature and the Earth and all it does to sustain us, or some cult of people who twisted what Jesus actually said and invented a story about him....??

Accommodate? LOL!! No - they adopted many pagan festivals and beliefs SO THAT THEY COULD ERADICATE those beliefs.

Paganism is a far cry closer to acknowledging divinity than the pompous crap that Jesus's legend has produced and all the self-congratulating and other-condemning that goes on today.

a reply to: WarminIndy

No, disagreeing with gay rights isn't technically persecution, but it is ignorant.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No, disagreeing with gay rights isn't technically persecution, but it is ignorant.

It is both ignorant AND persecution.
Back of the bus, you. This is the water fountain for regular people. You have to use the other one that's labeled "not us". We won't serve you at this lunch counter (bakery, pizza shop, etc).

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: TombEscaper

lol - so to be christian (ie to prove his resurrection, etc) they have to get out from being christian?? Tou don't see a (cough) minor problem with that??

You guys are a laugh a minute with your petty internecine squabbles about who is a true christian!

Well, that is the divinely orchestrated irony of the situation. In order for one to have a hope of reigning with Christ, they must fully remove themselves from the corporate mindset of the entire Christian institution. That includes the belief that Jesus "took their place" on the cross. Those who continue to subscribe to the conventional notion of Christ's "atoning sacrifice" will have no place in His Kingdom, as they will choose to go on keeping Him crucified and entombed as opposed to allowing Him to resurrect as Immanuel.

So you can see that these truths are not "more conflict within Christianity," but wholly eradicate and transcend the hollow "truths" that have been a part of Christianity since its inception.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TombEscaper

Don't let the corruption that has happened to and through the Bible to cloud your judgment of that transcendent opus given to mankind for furthering cosmic evolution. The divine orchestration of the Bible can be proven beyond all doubt.

If that were the case, then the whole world would believe it. (That's your cue - so prove it.)

Personally I find much more divinity in a gorgeous sunrise, or a hurricane, or a meteor shower, or a mountain range.
Or a plant sprouting from a seed and growing into a glorious flower. Or the eyes of a newborn.
And especially in beautiful pieces of music.

The Bible? No.

Well if you remember back to the baseline theme of this very topic, it does deal with the notion of the whole world believing. And this is where the irony lies. The whole world can and will come to belief if and when the Church Body collectively comes to an awakening of repentance, and denounces the foundational beliefs of the Christian institution - including the necessity of Christ crucified. (The Supreme Intelligence that people refer to as "God" is most certainly an inconceivable "trickster.")

I have no doubt that it could be proven to you that the Bible has been authored by an Intelligence that far surpasses the idea of "men writing fables." The question is - do you have any part of you that would still be open to accepting this, or have you made up your mind to the point that anything validating that will automatically be rejected based on predetermined skepticism?

originally posted by: TombEscaper

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TombEscaper

Don't let the corruption that has happened to and through the Bible to cloud your judgment of that transcendent opus given to mankind for furthering cosmic evolution. The divine orchestration of the Bible can be proven beyond all doubt.

If that were the case, then the whole world would believe it. (That's your cue - so prove it.)

Personally I find much more divinity in a gorgeous sunrise, or a hurricane, or a meteor shower, or a mountain range.
Or a plant sprouting from a seed and growing into a glorious flower. Or the eyes of a newborn.
And especially in beautiful pieces of music.

The Bible? No.

Well if you remember back to the baseline theme of this very topic, it does deal with the notion of the whole world believing. And this is where the irony lies. The whole world can and will come to belief if and when the Church Body collectively comes to an awakening of repentance, and denounces the foundational beliefs of the Christian institution - including the necessity of Christ crucified. (The Supreme Intelligence that people refer to as "God" is most certainly an inconceivable "trickster.")

I have no doubt that it could be proven to you that the Bible has been authored by an Intelligence that far surpasses the idea of "men writing fables." The question is - do you have any part of you that would still be open to accepting this, or have you made up your mind to the point that anything validating that will automatically be rejected based on predetermined skepticism?

And yes, all those things you mention certainly are reflections of divinity!

a reply to: TombEscaper

I have no doubt that it could be proven to you that the Bible has been authored by an Intelligence that far surpasses the idea of "men writing fables."

All right then....You prove it to me. But more importantly, prove it to our resident "Christians" .
Please. Do it.

The question is - do you have any part of you that would still be open to accepting this,

Yes sir. Bring it on.

or have you made up your mind to the point that anything validating that will automatically be rejected based on predetermined skepticism?

You said you can prove it absolutely. If you can do it, please.....do it.

And yes....if you can prove it, I will accept it.

originally posted by: TombEscaper
[
Well if you remember back to the baseline theme of this very topic, it does deal with the notion of the whole world believing. And this is where the irony lies. The whole world can and will come to belief if and when the Church Body collectively comes to an awakening of repentance, and denounces the foundational beliefs of the Christian institution - including the necessity of Christ crucified. (The Supreme Intelligence that people refer to as "God" is most certainly an inconceivable "trickster.")

Says who? Apart from you of course....and what is the supporting evidence??

I have no doubt that it could be proven to you that the Bible has been authored by an Intelligence that far surpasses the idea of "men writing fables."

I certainly have such doubt - no-one has managed to do it so far and I see no reason to believe anyone ever will.

The question is - do you have any part of you that would still be open to accepting this, or have you made up your mind to the point that anything validating that will automatically be rejected based on predetermined skepticism?

No - that is not "the question" - "the question is".........what is this evidence? supplemented by "Why does your god(s) hide him/her/itself from simple understanding and recognition??"

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TombEscaper

I have no doubt that it could be proven to you that the Bible has been authored by an Intelligence that far surpasses the idea of "men writing fables."

All right then....You prove it to me. But more importantly, prove it to our resident "Christians" .

Please. Do it.

The question is - do you have any part of you that would still be open to accepting this,

Yes sir. Bring it on.

or have you made up your mind to the point that anything validating that will automatically be rejected based on predetermined skepticism?

You said you can prove it absolutely. If you can do it, please.....do it.



And yes....if you can prove it, I will accept it.

I have no doubt it can be proven to you if you are as open to accepting it as you claim, but it is not done through conventional methods of intellectual analysis or "providing evidence." It is done through the recognition of cosmically orchestrated ironies that could only be conceived from higher realms of Creative Consciousness.

For instance, Christians keep themselves willfully blind to the multitudes of contradictions throughout the Gospels because they want to see them as "history books" and feel as though conflicts in the narratives would show they weren't "divinely inspired." Skeptics of course rightly point out the Gospel contradictions, but use them to insist that the Bible was written by men.

Both sides are wrong. The contradictions in the Gospels are divinely purposeful clues showing that both Christians and skeptics do not read the Bible properly. It is not a history book of literality, but a divine riddle that shows man the blueprint of the voyage of his own soul. (The secrets revealed through Gospel contradictions completely transcend what some claim to see in "The Bible Code.") Only now, after 2,000 years of religious ineptitude, is this Truth beginning to be revealed.

So, when you say to "prove" the Bible's transcendent properties, it is not something that can be done as a "fast-food" serving, but it will unquestionably be done for those willing to find the Truth.

If you have a few moments to examine this link that touches upon this, and if you have an interest in learning more, we can begin to embark upon the journey of proving these things.

escapethematrix.wix.com/thegospelmatrix

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

originally posted by: TombEscaper

[

Well if you remember back to the baseline theme of this very topic, it does deal with the notion of the whole world believing. And this is where the irony lies. The whole world can and will come to belief if and when the Church Body collectively comes to an awakening of repentance, and denounces the foundational beliefs of the Christian institution - including the necessity of Christ crucified. (The Supreme Intelligence that people refer to as "God" is most certainly an inconceivable "trickster.")

Says who? Apart from you of course....and what is the supporting evidence??

I have no doubt that it could be proven to you that the Bible has been authored by an Intelligence that far surpasses the idea of "men writing fables."

I certainly have such doubt - no-one has managed to do it so far and I see no reason to believe anyone ever will.

The question is - do you have any part of you that would still be open to accepting this, or have you made up your mind to the point that anything validating that will automatically be rejected based on predetermined skepticism?

No - that is not "the question" - "the question is".........what is this evidence? supplemented by "Why does your god(s) hide him/her/itself from simple understanding and recognition??"

What evidence, or what type of evidence, are you seeking? The evidence of living in an enigmatic Matrix which has used religion to entomb the masses of humanity, all of which is being orcestrated by evolved "trixter" consciousnesses, is found throughut the Bible when it is read at a higher level of perception than when deeming it a "history book."

As mentioned in the previous post, the ironies of these matters are made evident through the divinely inspired contradictions of the Gospels. Christians are wrong in saying the contradictions don't exist, and critics are wrong in saying that the contradictions prove the Bible was written by men. This is obviously not something that can be quickly explained in a message board post, but is an unquestionable reality when seen and accepted through studying the contradictions.

a reply to: TombEscaper

So, when you say to "prove" the Bible's transcendent properties, it is not something that can be done as a "fast-food" serving, but it will unquestionably be done for those willing to find the Truth.

No - I want you to prove to me that it was "divinely channelled" to the people who claim it was.

I have no problem with seeing the entire universe as a carefully orchestrated bit of genius engineering. But the "Bible Stories" are complete bunk. My stance is "intelligent design" is possible, but once the whole thing "began" that force that created it left it to its own devices, which are still at work today.

Truly, I am an agnostic - but I also think it's just as likely that there are multiverses, that wormholes create new universes, and that there are an infinity of universes and many dimensions we are incapable of perceiving. To think that some "man in the clouds" is watching our every move, reading our every thought, and "saving" some and "condemning" others is absolutely RIDICULOUS.

Jesus was no different than other previous 'ascended masters'. We all possess a spark of the Divine.

THE BIBLE is no more legitimate than the Galactic Federation - which, incidentally, is to my mind MORE likely than the stupid Bible stories. Weak.

You said you could "prove the Bible beyond doubt to be divinely inspired."
I asked for PROOF. That means EVIDENCE.
Fail.
Sorry.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TombEscaper

So, when you say to "prove" the Bible's transcendent properties, it is not something that can be done as a "fast-food" serving, but it will unquestionably be done for those willing to find the Truth.

No - I want you to prove to me that it was "divinely channelled" to the people who claim it was.

You are falling into the same trap as Christians - being unable to break free of analyzing the Bible as a history book of literality, or a book that claims to be such. It does not matter "who" physically penned its contents, and it even does not matter whether anything in it ever physically happened as recorded. Focusing on those matters when trying to verify the Bible's authenticity keeps Christ crucified and entombed - that is, the Christ within. This is what Christianity has done throughout its existence.

The collective perception of those who read the Bible must now be elevated to a point at which the Bible is understood as the LIVING "roadmap" to the destination of the "Promised Land" that is the divinity within, which also includes the transcending of this entombing Matrix, the attainment of immortality, and the ascension to our rightful state as cosmic creators of individual and collective exponential reality. Upholding it as a historical document of literal events has NEVER achieved this. All of this is what is symbolized by the "historical" resurrection and ascension of the Son of God. We are all sons (and daughters) of God, and it is now time to come off the cross and out of our tomb.

I have no problem with seeing the entire universe as a carefully orchestrated bit of genius engineering. But the "Bible Stories" are complete bunk. My stance is "intelligent design" is possible, but once the whole thing "began" that force that created it left it to its own devices, which are still at work today.

From one perspective, yes - the true Elohim Creator(s) of Genesis 1 (do not confuse the Elohim with "Yahweh," who was introduced in Genesis 2, shortly before everything went awry) have forsaken this world because we incarnates have chosen to "eat from the tree" and experience an existence of good and evil apart from our divine state. (This is likewise symbolized by the cry of the Son of God while on the cross - "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?") So you can see that one of the earliest Bible stories that you call "bunk" is actually the beginning of our own story.

Truly, I am an agnostic - but I also think it's just as likely that there are multiverses, that wormholes create new universes, and that there are an infinity of universes and many dimensions we are incapable of perceiving. To think that some "man in the clouds" is watching our every move, reading our every thought, and "saving" some and "condemning" others is absolutely RIDICULOUS.

I'm presuming that you do realize that agnostic literally means "without knowledge." That doesn't seem like something one would want to label themselves as, and it doesn't seem like an accurate classification of you from what I've encountered in these conversations.

I obviously don't put forth the "man in the clouds" notion, but there is most certainly an Akashic realm in which all things are recorded and "kept tabs of."

And yes, there are definitely multiverses and infinite universes (the Berenstein/Berenstain conundrum is "intangible evidence" of this, existing as undeniable proof only within individual and collective consciousness). All such things are the "Mind of God."

Jesus was no different than other previous 'ascended masters'. We all possess a spark of the Divine.

You again somewhat agree with my premise without even seeming to realize it.

John 14
12 Most certainly I tell you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and he will do greater works than these (WEB)

THE BIBLE is no more legitimate than the Galactic Federation - which, incidentally, is to my mind MORE likely than the stupid Bible stories. Weak.

If you believe in the likelihood of "infinite universes," mustn't this necessitate you also believing in the existence of the Galactic Federation in some form, or infinite forms, even if currently outside of the state of our entombed perception? (I've already addressed the "stupid Bible stories.")

You said you could "prove the Bible beyond doubt to be divinely inspired."
I asked for PROOF. That means EVIDENCE.
Fail.
Sorry.

Here is where the tone and content of your rebuttal causes me to feel your own current "mood": sigh. The issue is not if "I" can prove the Bible to be divinely inspired, but the Bible itself will bear this out to the awakening ones. Perhaps not in the way you have been conditioned to think it should prove itself (by both skeptics AND Christians), but as you have seen, I have agreed with many of your own postulations and used "unconventional" applications of the Bible itself to do so. Perhaps this may begin the "proving" process to you. Or perhaps not, if you are insistent to keep looking for "fails."