Clerk's office defies order; no same-sex marriage licenses

originally posted by: JohnFisher
If a secular government will not accommodate her morals and values like they do only for secularists, then they should just fire her. Like it or not, she's doing what's morally right in her faith. It's on the secular entity to let her go. Why should she quit? She had the job before this was a legal thing.

Because she "chose" to work for a secular institution and adhere to their rules. Those are their rules. So she is obligated to follow them. If she "chooses" not to follow the rules then she can quit. Nobody is making her work or do anything she doesn't want to do.

There are millions of people who can do her job without being morally offended. So let them have it.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
If a secular government will not accommodate her morals and values like they do only for secularists, then they should just fire her. Like it or not, she's doing what's morally right in her faith. It's on the secular entity to let her go. Why should she quit? She had the job before this was a legal thing.

Actually she is not. Christians don't recognize any non Christian marriages, by handing a marriage certificate out to a Muslim couple she is violating her faith equally with handing one out to a gay couple. Furthermore, picking and choosing who gets a state issued marriage certificate is her taking the initiative to judge others rather than letting God do it.

She is in the wrong here no matter how you look at it, and she was in the wrong prior to the SC ruling.

a reply to: JohnFisher

Um... Wait; what? She's free to practice her faith but only as permissible by law. Gotcha.

She is free to practice her faith until it infringes on someone elses rights guaranteed to them by the constitution. She ran for the office, and took an oath to perform the duties of that office. A SECULAR office.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: JohnFisher

Um... Wait; what? She's free to practice her faith but only as permissible by law. Gotcha.

She is free to practice her faith until it infringes on someone elses rights guaranteed to them by the constitution. She ran for the office, and took an oath to perform the duties of that office. A SECULAR office.

Well then, again, they should fire her. One person's rights don't get to tread on another one's rights. If they don't relieve her of her duties, then go to one of the endless other people who will gladly and enthusiastically perform this function. I'm just saying, this issue revolves around sacred values for one side VS a minor inconvenience for the other. I pray she stands by her convictions.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: JohnFisher
If a secular government will not accommodate her morals and values like they do only for secularists, then they should just fire her. Like it or not, she's doing what's morally right in her faith. It's on the secular entity to let her go. Why should she quit? She had the job before this was a legal thing.

Actually she is not. Christians don't recognize any non Christian marriages, by handing a marriage certificate out to a Muslim couple she is violating her faith equally with handing one out to a gay couple. Furthermore, picking and choosing who gets a state issued marriage certificate is her taking the initiative to judge others rather than letting God do it.

That's really pretty much all untrue.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: JohnFisher
If a secular government will not accommodate her morals and values like they do only for secularists, then they should just fire her. Like it or not, she's doing what's morally right in her faith. It's on the secular entity to let her go. Why should she quit? She had the job before this was a legal thing.

There are millions of people who can do her job without being morally offended. So let them have it.

Exactly, purge the Christians and Muslims and Jews, and give everyone else the job.

a reply to: JohnFisher

Which convictions do you "pray she stands by"? Her cherry picked ones?

Has she ever given marriage licenses to Heterosexual couples who have had multiple marriages?

Malachi 2:16 Embed logos.biblia.init(); 16 “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her,10 says the Lord, the God of Israel, covers11 his garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.”

Let me guess though, this passage has a "but" that's not in the bible right?

originally posted by: JohnFisher

Exactly, purge the Christians and Muslims and Jews, and give everyone else the job.

Oh please, enough with the pity party persecution BS. It's the Christians who are purging themselves not the other way around. They are the ones who are denying others equal footing in the world. In this case she took a job that is secular, not religious. If she cannot complete her duties then she should be fired. Nobody is persecuting her, she is refusing to do the job she agreed to do.

She's also a huge hypocrite as well which has been proven in multiple ways by multiple people already.

She has chosen, against all reason, to use her Religious Belief to deny others what they are rightfully due.

If the world was persecuting the Religious there wouldn't be a church on every street corner, on tv, on radio and everywhere else being allowed to cry persecution and martyrdom.

But defend her all you want. You are on the losing side of history and reason in this case.

originally posted by: JohnFisher

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: JohnFisher
If a secular government will not accommodate her morals and values like they do only for secularists, then they should just fire her. Like it or not, she's doing what's morally right in her faith. It's on the secular entity to let her go. Why should she quit? She had the job before this was a legal thing.

There are millions of people who can do her job without being morally offended. So let them have it.

Exactly, purge the Christians and Muslims and Jews, and give everyone else the job.

I grew up Christian. Their persecution complex is ridiculous.

A job in a secular government is self explanatory.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: JohnFisher

Exactly, purge the Christians and Muslims and Jews, and give everyone else the job.

Oh please, enough with the pity party persecution BS. It's the Christians who are purging themselves not the other way around. They are the ones who are denying others equal footing in the world. In this case she took a job that is secular, not religious. If she cannot complete her duties then she should be fired. Nobody is persecuting her, she is refusing to do the job she agreed to do.

She's also a huge hypocrite as well which has been proven in multiple ways by multiple people already.

She has chosen, against all reason, to use her Religious Belief to deny others what they are rightfully due.

If the world was persecuting the Religious there wouldn't be a church on every street corner, on tv, on radio and everywhere else being allowed to cry persecution and martyrdom.

But defend her all you want. You are on the losing side of history and reason in this case.

who is talking about persecution? It's a purge. It is what it is. And Yes, I'll defend her conviction. I'm not on the losing side of history. The world is bigger than the US and the west, and the church is still growing. Besides, things seem to run on a pendulum. It'll swing back in my "side's" favor.

a reply to: JohnFisher

OK Johnny, Are you really a Christian or a gay hater? Do you REALLY believe in the Bible and stand by her cherry picked conviction or are you trolling? Seriously

originally posted by: JohnFisher
who is talking about persecution? It's a purge. It is what it is. And Yes, I'll defend her conviction. I'm not on the losing side of history. The world is bigger than the US and the west, and the church is still growing. Besides, things seem to run on a pendulum. It'll swing back in my "side's" favor.

Fine, it's a purge of the Unreasonable bigots and ignorant members of religion from decent society because they want to act in illegal ways and grant themselves special privilege that nobody else receives. Although it's not even a purge since nobody is telling them to go anywhere else or removing them from society. They are still free do do as they please just like before.

In any other situation there wouldn't even be a discussion. Anyone who refuses to perform the duties they agreed to, get's fired. Period. Rightfully so. The fact that we keep coddling religious radicals who think they can do as they please simply because they "believe it" is nonsense. Nobody is special because they believe something. Everyone believes different things and none of them are special for it.

You are defending her conviction to be a hypocrite and to act in a manner that is illegal as well as unethical. Why doesn't that shock me that you are proud of that like all the other Zealots??

a reply to: mOjOm

I guess we should know by now it's OK for the "Christians" to be bigoted and hypocritical.

a reply to: mOjOm

Anyone who refuses to perform the duties they agreed to, get's fired. Period. Rightfully so.

I agree with this statement.
However---in this case these clerks ran for a position in which the rules were set by state statute. Now the Black-Robed Tribe has changed the duties in mid-stream. These clerks didn't agree to these new rules. That is what they are saying as far as I can see. I fail to see how they are being "hypocrites" when it was outside forces that changed the parameters of the job---making a different set of rules.
Again, I am not defending their actions---but I can understand the dilemma in which they find themselves. They ran for and were elected to the job under a different set of laws.
And again, they were elected to the job so they can't just be "fired" under statutory law so how do you suggest they be removed? Should the governor call a special session of the legislature and cost the taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars just to remove a few county clerks? I truly have no answers and while I don't agree with their principled stand, I do have human compassion for a person whose morals are being questioned through no fault of their own.

originally posted by: mymymy
a reply to: JohnFisher

OK Johnny, Are you really a Christian or a gay hater? Do you REALLY believe in the Bible and stand by her cherry picked conviction or are you trolling? Seriously

I don't hate gay people. I don't cherry pick.

an employer is required to make accommodations for someone's religious beliefs as long as those accommodations aren't extremely burdensome....
I imagine gov't institutions would be try to conform to the same rule.
I don't know about this country clerk office, but I think ours is only staffed by one person.
so well at least for ours, I think it would be a matter of accomodations being too burdensome....
after all it would require the county to hire two people to do the job that one should be able to do....
of course, maybe they could accomodate her to another department, but like someone already said, it might be an elected position, so maybe not.
the idea that this is a sign that we are purging the christians out of the jobs is ludicrous!!! a secular society should have the ability to deviate from belief systems that the society finds no longer serves or that they feel it outdated and no longer acceptable, which is what is happening.
if the society didn't have their freedom, we wouldn't have progressed as far as we have because religion by it's nature serves as an anchor to the traditions of our ancestors. that anchor ensures that we don't move to quickly into the great unknown, but well it still allows us to move forward!

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: JohnFisher
who is talking about persecution? It's a purge. It is what it is. And Yes, I'll defend her conviction. I'm not on the losing side of history. The world is bigger than the US and the west, and the church is still growing. Besides, things seem to run on a pendulum. It'll swing back in my "side's" favor.

Fine, it's a purge of the Unreasonable bigots and ignorant members of religion from decent society because they want to act in illegal ways and grant themselves special privilege that nobody else receives. Although it's not even a purge since nobody is telling them to go anywhere else or removing them from society. They are still free do do as they please just like before.

In any other situation there wouldn't even be a discussion. Anyone who refuses to perform the duties they agreed to, get's fired. Period. Rightfully so. The fact that we keep coddling religious radicals who think they can do as they please simply because they "believe it" is nonsense. Nobody is special because they believe something. Everyone believes different things and none of them are special for it.

You are defending her conviction to be a hypocrite and to act in a manner that is illegal as well as unethical. Why doesn't that shock me that you are proud of that like all the other Zealots??

I'll give you this much. You'd make a fine propagandist.

So you are saying you're a Christian and you would support any of her convictions according to the bible?

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: Klassified

that none of this woman's rights to practice her religion have been stripped from her.

Phew, that's a relief.

She has just been ordered to follow the law, as her beliefs do not excuse her from doing so...

Um... Wait; what? She's free to practice her faith but only as permissible by law. Gotcha.

What does her faith have to do with her job? She literally swore an oath to uphold US law when she took the job. No one's attacking her right to practice her faith. But nowhere in her faith does it state that she can't issue legal documents at her workplace.

And apparently the majority of other Christians in Kentucky agree with me since there isn't a statewide refusal to do their jobs if it benefits homosexuals.

This lady has not a leg to stand on...


She is not doing her job as a clerk in a SECULAR country.

If she wants to protest then she has to quit her job

She will end up in jail or fired or both


But she will end up a martyr with her fellow religionists and maybe even get some money from them