The Beauty of Atheism

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Howdy,

Apologies for the long posts, I can't help but ramble sometimes. I hope to clarify, but I probably more often obfuscate through length.

I agree that atheists do not get special consideration for committing atrocities based on their position. If an atheist does something deplorable, they are indeed a deplorable person. I never disagreed with that part of your posting. If you recall, I even granted the perhaps dubious claims of atheistic atrocities you cited. Simply put, yes there are/were horrible atheists who do/have done inhumane things. My point was that you have failed to demonstrate a causal link between the position of atheism and the acts of genocide.

A minor point of disagreement between you and I, you seem to be under the belief that there are "views" to atheism. There is one stance on one topic, whether deities exist. There are indeed associated views, anti-theism and secularism, perhaps even naturalism, which might or might not follow from atheism, but these are not the atheistic position.

I am sorry if this was a misunderstanding, I can be quite dense at times. I miss the obvious quite often. I can see how your first quote might have been meant how you now say it was. However, could you please respond to the second quote which implies a causal link between atheism and genocide?

Thank you,
Hydeman

a reply to: hydeman11

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by causal link. Please clarify.

I think that atheists are just as capable as perpetrating crimes against humanity as any religious people. It's just that atheist have never used atheism as an excuse for their atrocities, while the religious perpetrate their crimes against humanity in the name of their God.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Howdy,

Causal refers to a type of correlation where one thing causes another. You wrote of causation in your OP when you spoke of atheist crime rates against humanity. I am merely asking for you to demonstrate that causal link you seemingly imply or suspect. That is, to demonstrate that atheism causes genocides.

If you did not mean that with your OP, I must ask for further clarification of your use of the term "causation."

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

originally posted by: hydeman11
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Howdy,

Causal refers to a type of correlation where one thing causes another. You wrote of causation in your OP when you spoke of atheist crime rates against humanity. I am merely asking for you to demonstrate that causal link you seemingly imply or suspect. That is, to demonstrate that atheism causes genocides.

If you did not mean that with your OP, I must ask for further clarification of your use of the term "causation."

Sincere regards,
Hydeman

I never said that atheism causes genocide, your taking it the wrong way, notice I said "reeks of causation" I'm not implying that it was the actual cause. If your asking me if their belief in atheism is what caused them to commit these acts then naturally I could not say for sure. What I do know is that they had an agenda to create a world full of atheist, whether or not they wanted it that way because that is what they believed is impossible to say with 100% accuracy. But if we are being honest about this what other cause would they have for doing it? It wasn't just about world domination.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Howdy,

I see, I think. Let me get this straight... You aren't saying there is a causal effect where atheism causes genocide, although you did imply that your supposed correlation reeks of causation. So you say you are not implying causation but you do not deny that you are implying causation? Furthermore, you state you can think of no other reason for the genocide but the spread of atheism? I'm afraid I don't follow you. Could I trouble you for further clarification on your position?

Sorry, I did say I can be quite dense at times.

Thank you,
Hydeman

a reply to: hydeman11
Like I said, my main point to this thread is that atheist act as though they are innocent of shedding blood. The cause or causation, whatever you want to call it is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that atheist have killed millions for their own sick reason.

Anyway, I'm done with topic, time to move on to something else. But I do appreciate everyone's post and thoughts in regards to the thread, it was fun.

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

Howdy,

Well, I certainly don't disagree that there have been some rather unsavory atheists. I disagree that causation is irrelevant to your argument, though, as without it, your argument is merely that some people who were atheists committed genocides (which you argue was not what you were arguing for).

Regardless, thank you for the thread. It was a pleasure discussing the topic.

Kindest regards,
Hydeman

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I swear you guys know how slither your way out of anything. Just won't admit the fact that there were atheist who where just as sick in the head as some of the religious.

Ok I admit it. To be honest, I never denied it. It's just an irrelevant piece of information.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Recent experience on ATS has shown me a couple of Religious people who are pretty horrid tbh.
One actually disappointed me.

Oh and here is the guy who said it and I do think there is plenty of evidence of good men doing evil things because of religion.

en.wikiquote.org...

I'm not going to get into this I'll just leave my 2 pennies worth

25,000 children under 5 die a day on this planet, why is this all loving all powerful God not stepping in to help stop it despite all those parents who pray to God for simply helping their child?

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

I hear what you're sayin' dude but I disagree with your figures. Religion, even in the bible is responsible for wiping entire races of people from existence. Millions upon millions of people have been slaughtered in the name of 'some' god. Not that it really makes any difference I guess...

Just because I'm an atheist doesn't necessarily mean I have a burning hatred of religion; neither does it mean that I believe atheists are blameless. Stalin was an atheist, Hitler was a Christian. Both of them did terrible things. It's no use pinning everything on one side.

Having said that, can't you see why I would attack faith? Religion is privileged to the point of incredulity. For example, people are free to protest against same-sex marriage. There's nothing wrong with that - like everyone else they are entitled to their own opinion. But only religion can get away with actively infringing equal rights by trying to put a stop to it! Only religion is allowed to disregard the rights of women and teach that contraception is a sin, keeping Third-World countries in an AIDS epidemic. I wouldn't mind if religion merely voiced its opinion, but it continuously endeavours to enforce itself with an authority it does not have the right to exercise.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker
Are you sure you want to go here? I hope you've got a lot more "facts" than you presented in your OP.

I'll start, but I'm going to stand back and let everyone else have their turn on this one.

The Abrahamic God allegedly wiped out a whole planet of people, making Yahweh the king of mass murderers of all time. Bar none. Then he instructed Israel to commit one of the most heinous acts of genocide the world has ever known. If you believe the bible anyway. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I could be wrong, but I think you just got "owned'.... Can't have it both ways no can you.

Is that a historical fact? Or you going to try and use a book full of fairy tales to justify the acts of Atheism? Since the Bible is fiction then that can't be true now can it?

originally posted by: Tenebris
Just because I'm an atheist doesn't necessarily mean I have a burning hatred of religion; neither does it mean that I believe atheists are blameless. Stalin was an atheist, Hitler was a Christian. Both of them did terrible things. It's no use pinning everything on one side.

Having said that, can't you see why I would attack faith? Religion is privileged to the point of incredulity. For example, people are free to protest against same-sex marriage. There's nothing wrong with that - like everyone else they are entitled to their own opinion. But only religion can get away with actively infringing equal rights by trying to put a stop to it! Only religion is allowed to disregard the rights of women and teach that contraception is a sin, keeping Third-World countries in an AIDS epidemic. I wouldn't mind if religion merely voiced its opinion, but it continuously endeavours to enforce itself with an authority it does not have the right to exercise.

im atheist too and have no anamosity toard religion, but i cant understand this im hoping you can clarify

But only religion can get away with actively infringing equal rights by trying to put a stop to it! Only religion is allowed to disregard the rights of women and teach that contraception is a sin, keeping Third-World countries in an AIDS epidemic. I wouldn't mind if religion merely voiced its opinion, but it continuously endeavours to enforce itself with an authority it does not have the right to exercise.

when you say it endevours to enforce itself....do you have an example of where religion has taken away any freedoms that it doesnt agree with? i mean i know christians dont like abortion but abortion is legal, a very small minority disagree with contraception but contraception is legal, they dont like homosexuality but gay marraige is legal.....im confused

Hi kelly. Yes, in America, we have fought hard in the political forums to push most of christian influence out of our laws. There are still lingering fragments around in local ordinances though. Even though contraceptives, abortions, same sex marriage, and divorce are legal here, there is still a large contingency of religios who are active in our political system, and they very much want to have more influence.
In other countries, like most of africa, saudi arabia, afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, and many more, contraceptives, homo sexuality, divorce, and other important points are mostly forbidden thanks to the catholic and muslim influence. Just because religion is being marginalized here in the states, doesn't mean that secularism is dominant around the world. In tenebris's defence, they did mention third world countries.



a reply to: kellyjay

originally posted by: Woodcarver
Hi kelly. Yes, in America, we have fought hard in the political forums to push most of christian influence out of our laws. There are still lingering fragments around in local ordinances though. Even though contraceptives, abortions, same sex marriage, and divorce are legal here, there is still a large contingency of religios who are active in our political system, and they very much want to have more influence.
In other countries, like most of africa, saudi arabia, afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, and many more, contraceptives, homo sexuality, divorce, and other important points are mostly forbidden thanks to the catholic and muslim influence. Just because religion is being marginalized here in the states, doesn't mean that secularism is dominant around the world. In tenebris's defence, they did mention third world countries.





a reply to: kellyjay

ahh ok i thought you were speaking about america, well one only needs to look at the middle east to see the influence of religion at work...in islams defence though it is the youngest of the abrahamic religions only being 400 years old...and while the western world has moved beyond the "religious era" the middle east is still there...hopefully the middle east can catch up at some point with the rest of us

a reply to: kellyjay

If we put our minds to it, i'm sure we could find some US laws that stem from religious teachings.

In my town, we still can't buy liquor on sundays. Also pawn shops are closed on sundays.

Maybe that would make a nice new thread topic as this one has been forfeited.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Klassified
You're the one defending religion. You don't believe their texts? Any google search will put the death toll at around 100-120 million for religion in the last 100 years or so. Historically, atheists couldn't catch up to religion if they wiped out the whole earth today. Considering religion has run this world for the last 8000 years at least, it's track record is atrocious.

But the big difference is, atheists don't claim to have the market cornered on morals and ethics. Religion however, does make that claim, over and over. So you have no room to say "You guys murder people too." But it's ok if it's done in the name of god, right?

Atheism and religion are no different, BOTH are part of the SAME agenda.

Both are nothing more than stealth mind control tools.

Atheism is a fabricated pseudo religion whether atheists want to admit it or not.

The entire agenda and purpose behind BOTH is to keep the truth HIDDEN.

Those who buy into it are JUST as deceived if not more than anyone who falls for religious lies.

Therefore, it all comes down to faith.

In the end, we're all the same.

We just have faith in different beliefs.

"The problem has more than its share of irony, for secularism, in the end, has converted itself into a kind of religion. Our hallowed tradition of skepticism and tolerance has grown into its near opposite, and it now partakes of precisely the same arrogance, the same irrationality and passion for certainty, the same pretense to unquestioned virtue against which its powers were once arrayed. In the desperate way we cling to belief, in our contempt for those who do not believe what we believe, secularism has, indeed, taken on the trappings of a faith-and a narrow one at that."

Secularism's Blind Faith

originally posted by: Murgatroid
Atheism is their primary weapon and it is a well-financed movement with a stealth agenda. Illuminati worship lucifer and teach that Jesus is a myth.

Satan is "god of this world" and the Cabalists goal is to destroy Christianity and all of civilization and have a world without God. This is why the Illuminati use religion in secret so effectively as a form of mind control to brainwash and control the world.

Exactly this, those who call themselves atheists, and those who believe in religions, are both nowhere near the truth, and are certainly making sure they and everyone else cannot find it.

But it is not their fault, they couldn't change if they wanted too, and that IS the truth.

a reply to: RealTruthSeekerKarl Marx and Freidrich Engels were pure followers of Judaism. they founded Communism....Das Kapital, The 18th Brumaire, the workers of the world unite, etc. Lenin took it to moscow, and Stalin slaughtered, as you properly note, millions of his own people. Are you sure that Judaism, the Talmud and Torah are not the hidden hand behind communism? lets throw in the Kaballah.. you think this is all crap??? take a read. of Solzhenitsen, Two Hundred Years Together.. hard to find, the Zionist dominated publishing media lords have suppressed it. But he documents with stunning detail, how Jews, though a tiny minority, dominated Russia...and Stalin. little side light. Solzhenitsen was booed at Harvard in his speech condeming western values. hummm. do Jews run Harvard? certainly Larry Summers did.....