The Beauty of Atheism

a reply to: Klassified

Howdy,

I agree that showing causality rather than just correlation is very difficult, especially in social science aspects. That's part of the reason I called out the OP for the claim of causation in the first place. I also agree that, as you say, both sides make blanket statements about the other. Generalization and the construction of strawmen are easier than dealing with the actual issues.

As for the causal link between religion, racism, sexism, and bigotry, well, I certainly agree that there appears to be strong evidence for causality. Of course, there is always the out of "the leader wasn't really x, he just used x for his purposes." Which is of course very true. But then we must consider not the leader, but the citizens who agreed to fight for x.

Consider the following scenario. There is a prominent (secret) atheist leader masquerading as say... a Catholic, he uses bigotry and hatred as espoused in his population's holy books to stir people into war. What or who do we blame? The atheist leader who fanned the flames or the soldiers who willingly fought for their perceived holy vision? Do we blame atheism because the leader was an atheist, or religion because the holy books justified the war in the populace's mind? Although both acts (by leader and populace) might be reprehensible, there would be no war if not for the population willing to be soldiers. There would be no soldiers if not for the justification of a holy text.

Social science is complicated, causality is difficult to demonstrate, and I will refrain from making strong claims of causality, but you may be right when you say their appears to have been wars with causal correlation between the racism, sexism, bigotry, and religion and the actual start of wars.

Sincerest regards,
Hydeman

originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: kellyjay
As an atheist i merely do not prescribe to the idea of god, i don't say he does not exist, because lets face it, nobody can prove otherwise just like christians can't prove he does.

Then you aren't atheist, you're agnostic because atheist firmly believe that no deity exists.

it does not require faith to not believe in things that others claim. If there is no good reason to believe, then disbelief is the default position.

Does it require faith to not believe in unicorns? Or the monster under the bed? The burden of proof is on those making positive claims. If i reject your claims, i am not making a positive claim. If i say god does not exist based on a lack of any evidence, i am not making a positive claim.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
So much dodging it's hilarious.

So basically, Atheists aren't guilty of atrocities because they have political opinions that tag along with them, but Christians are ALWAYS guilty of atrocities (hundreds of years ago) because those political influences don't count, and reflect on the religion itself.

HYPOCRITES. That is what you are. It's comical watching you make excuses for yourselves each and every time.

Um... I'm PRETTY sure when you kill tons of people because they aren't Christian, that is killing in the name of a religion...

a reply to: kellyjay

Again, I never said they killed in the name of atheism. Why do people keep putting words in my mouth? All I've stated is that in the past 100 years maybe longer that there have been men who ruled that were atheist and while they ruled committed some of the most horrifying murders ever seen. Are you saying this is not true?

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Again, I never said they killed in the name of atheism. Why do people keep putting words in my mouth? All I've stated is that in the past 100 years maybe longer that there have been men who ruled that were atheist and while they ruled committed some of the most horrifying murders ever seen. Are you saying this is not true?

Then don't attribute atheism as the cause of these genocides...simple, if it had no role to play in the acts of genocide then it doesn't need to be mentioned.

a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

You are HEAVILY implying it with your OP.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I know your smart enough to realize that the title is nothing but sarcasm right?

a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

I didn't say anything about your title. OP means original post not original title.

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: RealTruthSeeker

I didn't say anything about your title. OP means original post not original title.

My bad, I was thinking of the post before that one.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

I simply didnt add it to the equation because its irrelevant.....why you added it to the equation is perplexing unless of course you dont like like atheists and simply tried to attribute those genocides to atheists as their fault? in which case your OP is just reaching

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

I simply didnt add it to the equation because its irrelevant.....why you added it to the equation is perplexing unless of course you dont like like atheists and simply tried to attribute those genocides to atheists as their fault? in which case your OP is just reaching

Come on now, of course it's their fault, they were the ones doing the killing, regardless if they did in the name of atheism or not. What then, did they stop being atheist while they were committing these horrifying murders? The point is, these men where atheist and they killed people, I don't understand what so hard about accepting that as a fact.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

I simply didnt add it to the equation because its irrelevant.....why you added it to the equation is perplexing unless of course you dont like like atheists and simply tried to attribute those genocides to atheists as their fault? in which case your OP is just reaching

Come on now, of course it's their fault, they were the ones doing the killing, regardless if they did in the name of atheism or not. What then, did they stop being atheist while they were committing these horrifying murders? The point is, these men where atheist and they killed people, I don't understand what so hard about accepting that as a fact.

its certainly the mens fault yes...but not atheisms fault, you just wish to connect the two and make out that atheism is the reason hence your post.....when actually atheism should be a moot point

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

I simply didnt add it to the equation because its irrelevant.....why you added it to the equation is perplexing unless of course you dont like like atheists and simply tried to attribute those genocides to atheists as their fault? in which case your OP is just reaching

Come on now, of course it's their fault, they were the ones doing the killing, regardless if they did in the name of atheism or not. What then, did they stop being atheist while they were committing these horrifying murders? The point is, these men where atheist and they killed people, I don't understand what so hard about accepting that as a fact.

They all had penises, maybe its penises fault, or maybe its just men that are to blame? that's using your own logic

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

I simply didnt add it to the equation because its irrelevant.....why you added it to the equation is perplexing unless of course you dont like like atheists and simply tried to attribute those genocides to atheists as their fault? in which case your OP is just reaching

Come on now, of course it's their fault, they were the ones doing the killing, regardless if they did in the name of atheism or not. What then, did they stop being atheist while they were committing these horrifying murders? The point is, these men where atheist and they killed people, I don't understand what so hard about accepting that as a fact.

They all had penises, maybe its penises fault, or maybe its just men that are to blame? that's using your own logic

You still don't get it do you? So basically your saying that atheist have never committed mass murder right? Again all I have said is that men who were atheist committed some horrifying acts. I have never said that atheism in general was the cause. Your just trying to make it seem like I'm saying something which I have not said. Nice try though.

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

I simply didnt add it to the equation because its irrelevant.....why you added it to the equation is perplexing unless of course you dont like like atheists and simply tried to attribute those genocides to atheists as their fault? in which case your OP is just reaching

Come on now, of course it's their fault, they were the ones doing the killing, regardless if they did in the name of atheism or not. What then, did they stop being atheist while they were committing these horrifying murders? The point is, these men where atheist and they killed people, I don't understand what so hard about accepting that as a fact.

They all had penises, maybe its penises fault, or maybe its just men that are to blame? that's using your own logic

You still don't get it do you? So basically your saying that atheist have never committed mass murder right? Again all I have said is that men who were atheist committed some horrifying acts. I have never said that atheism in general was the cause. Your just trying to make it seem like I'm saying something which have not said. Nice try though.

uhuh, so then atheism remains untarnished, and religion has actually killed more people in the world.

thanks

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker

originally posted by: kellyjay

originally posted by: RealTruthSeeker
a reply to: kellyjay

Did I ever say that atheism was the cause? No, I didn't. True or false: There were men who ruled that were atheist who killed millions of people, is that true of false?

your headline "the beauty of atheism" suggests that you are, yes MEN killed thats where it ends as they didnt kill in the name of atheism...thats like saying 2 of them had moustaches so they killed because of moustaches....

its irrelevant....

Ok, but you just couldn't bring yourself to admit that they were atheist could you?

I simply didnt add it to the equation because its irrelevant.....why you added it to the equation is perplexing unless of course you dont like like atheists and simply tried to attribute those genocides to atheists as their fault? in which case your OP is just reaching

Come on now, of course it's their fault, they were the ones doing the killing, regardless if they did in the name of atheism or not. What then, did they stop being atheist while they were committing these horrifying murders? The point is, these men where atheist and they killed people, I don't understand what so hard about accepting that as a fact.

They all had penises, maybe its penises fault, or maybe its just men that are to blame? that's using your own logic

You still don't get it do you? So basically your saying that atheist have never committed mass murder right? Again all I have said is that men who were atheist committed some horrifying acts. I have never said that atheism in general was the cause. Your just trying to make it seem like I'm saying something which have not said. Nice try though.

uhuh, so then atheism remains untarnished, and religion has actually killed more people in the world.

thanks

Untarnished, lol. So atheist who kill people is irrelevant right?

a reply to: kellyjay

In other words it's ok for atheist to kill for whatever sick reason they sit fit? As long as they do not mention atheism then they are justified right?