Texas will Secede from the Union, 81,000 signatures!

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes, but those who wish to secede would not be Americans after an imaginary secession.

Actually if it was imaginary , yes they would still be Americans

Those who do not wish to secede would still be Americans.

Not if they resided in Texas

Is this apparent complexity getting through to you yet?

Says the guy who just said an imaginary secession would mean those who wanted it wouldnt be Americans...even tho it would be imaginary......

And that those who didnt want it, would still be Americans......even tho they would reside in the state of secession.....

LOL......thats .....that insult is ironic, above considered lol

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Punisher75

I see I'll need to break it down further.

What happens to the Americans who still live in Texas after secession?

I suppose they would move if they did not want to be a part of a sovereign Texas. I have heard nothing to indicate they would be held against their will.
Would it suck to have to move?
Yea it would. Life does that to ya sometimes hard choices and all that as I am sure you know.

Why should they move?

They're still sovereign American citizens. Their property is protected by the United States of America.

There would be at least 11-12 million of them.

With all due respect, you can really spare me your folksy attempts at humor and/or sarcasm, if you like; facts will be fine.

What makes you think that 60 citizens will decide the fate of 26 million?

If Texas as a whole have no desire to secede from the union then what does it matter? It would not happen.

All that is going on in this discussion from what I can see are thought exercises on what states should and should not be able to do. I don't think anyone is arguing that 60 people should have total control of 26 million peoples lives. LOL

a reply to: StoneFace

Thanks for that.......

I know I have my faults but i try to play nice most of the time..

That being said , I am a Texan born and raised, and im not for secession...........

however, looking at the many many many websites ive gone through today, ive only found probably 1 or 2 that said it wasnt possible .....and they lead their dissertation on the likelihood, with an attack on conservatives in Texas......sooo....

anyway, thanks and im glad someone was reading

a reply to: Gryphon66
I am not saying they should do anything at all.

I am saying if they did not want to be apart of a sovereign Texas that is what they would have to do to avoid it.

If Texas was to Secede, then no they would not in fact be American Citizens.

As far as there being 11-12 million of them.... Okay so then 11-12 million people would have to decide if they wanted to live in Texas or not.

I have given you nothing but facts.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yes, they would still be American citizens.

Do you think such an act on the part of Texas is going to deprive Americans of their citizenship?

You can spare me the silly attempts at being sarcastic as well; you're not very good at it, and you've been whining about how others are treating you for the whole thread.

Secession is an act of a government, a State, not people. Texas (as a supposed sovereign power) would declare secession, not the people of Texas, and certainly not the Americans in Texas who don't wish to be expatriated.

Think for a minute.

a reply to: Gryphon66

2. 90% of your post is negatively critiquing other responses in the discussion and general musing about how you'd like the conversation to go with little added evidence.

Except there has been none , just opinion..........if you can refute my claims that that Texas could stand as a sovereign nation, then please provide....

Burden of proof is on you my feathered friend

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: Gryphon66
I am not saying they should do anything at all.

I am saying if they did not want to be apart of a sovereign Texas that is what they would have to do to avoid it.

If Texas was to Secede, then no they would not in fact be American Citizens.

As far as there being 11-12 million of them.... Okay so then 11-12 million people would have to decide if they wanted to live in Texas or not.

I have given you nothing but facts.

Facts, right. Okay.

How does secession (an act of a State) deprive Americans of their American citizenship? Feel free to cite factual law or precedent that backs your claim up.

If so, WHO own's the military bases?
Are they going to get their money they demanded BEFORE or after they secede?
To WHO'M can I defect?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Gryphon66

2. 90% of your post is negatively critiquing other responses in the discussion and general musing about how you'd like the conversation to go with little added evidence.

Except there has been none , just opinion..........if you can refute my claims that that Texas could stand as a sovereign nation, then please provide....

Burden of proof is on you my feathered friend

The burden of proof may be on me, but my post wasn't directed at you.

You obviously haven't read my posts. I would love to see Texas stand on her own.

I have never refuted your claims about Texas, however, I am aware of the fiscal realities of the situation, and I don't share your take on things.

Perhaps you should make sure I make a claim about something you've said before you ask for proof?

I think in your haste you're failing to consider what I'm really saying. Perhaps.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Do you think such an act on the part of Texas is going to deprive Americans of their citizenship?

As another poster commented, no they can move.....no ones making them stay...

You can spare me the silly attempts at being sarcastic as well; you're not very good at it, and you've been whining about how others are treating you for the whole thread.

No ive commented on the lack of evidence, actual evidence, to refute my statements, which are backed up by many sources and as of yet , have not been refuted by any sources.....

Secession is an act of a government, a State, not people. Texas (as a supposed sovereign power) would declare secession, not the people of Texas, and certainly not the Americans in Texas who don't wish to be expatriated.

Actually secession is an act of the State, on behalf of the people should the people want it.........should this become a serious consideration, there would be a vote taken .....

like the last poster, youre making blanket statements to which some are like saying "the sky is blue" and then wanting a response in retort to a snarky statement.......

I fail to see where this is going?

a reply to: Gryphon66

I have never refuted your claims about Texas, however, I am aware of the fiscal realities of the situation, and I don't share your take on things.

Its not just my take........its the take of many many economists in the country including one of the foremost who leads the country in financial information..........just saying...

Perhaps you should make sure I make a claim about something you've said before you ask for proof?

perhaps youre confused that making an off hand statement and challenge to whats posted is actually making a claim.....

Just saying....

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
If so, WHO own's the military bases?
Are they going to get their money they demanded BEFORE or after they secede?
To WHO'M can I defect?

THAT is a very good question....

I think that would be a point of contention even more than our resources as far as the gov is concerned

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Sigh, so I said that secession is an act of a sovreign State, and you "correct" me by saying that secession is act of a State.

I'm wasting my time, but I can make this quite succinct.

Why should American citizens be removed from or denied their property by an act of a foreign State?

Does the State of Texas own the land of all its citizens?

You're passing over this the same way Punisher did, and that's fine.

I don't care enough to go any further; or waste anymore time with quibbling.

Enjoy your secession! I have great hopes for your success!

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: Gryphon66
I am not saying they should do anything at all.

I am saying if they did not want to be apart of a sovereign Texas that is what they would have to do to avoid it.

If Texas was to Secede, then no they would not in fact be American Citizens.

As far as there being 11-12 million of them.... Okay so then 11-12 million people would have to decide if they wanted to live in Texas or not.

Facts, right. Okay.

How does secession (an act of a State) deprive Americans of their American citizenship? Feel free to cite factual law or precedence that backs your claim up.

Easy.
A state that seceded would no longer be an American State it would be its own country. People who chose to continue to take residence there would therefore cease being Americans and become Texans.
(Unless I suppose they got a work visa or some such)

Much in the same way that Mexicans became Americans when California joined the Union.
Once they were Mexicans.. then they became Americans. No move was required. They just sat there one day... then *poof* they were Americans the next.
Much in the same way as any people do when the land mass they are sitting on stops being a part of one nation and becomes another.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: crazyewok
Love the unity the USA is showing to each other.....just show how unified and loving all the states are too each other

How's that unity in the United Kingdom workin for ya? Lol

Well its been going since 1707 and no civil war yet

Yeah.... did the Jacobite Revolt and the Easter Risings just happen to slip your mind?

And even now, Northern Ireland and Scotland are not a given, not by a long shot. You may well see the loss of both of them in your lifetime.

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: crazyewok
Love the unity the USA is showing to each other.....just show how unified and loving all the states are too each other

How's that unity in the United Kingdom workin for ya? Lol

Well its been going since 1707 and no civil war yet

Yeah.... did the Jacobite Revolt and the Easter Risings just happen to slip your mind?

And even now, Northern Ireland and Scotland are not a given, not by a long shot. You may well see the loss of both of them in your lifetime.

Sad when an American has to remind you of your own history.

Actually I had considered responding to that post myself, but I am not sure that I understand what he/she was saying.
I mean we are talking about America and Secession in this thread, and I don't want to assume that he does not know that America was once a part of England, so he must be talking about it in some other way,

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: Talorc

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: crazyewok
Love the unity the USA is showing to each other.....just show how unified and loving all the states are too each other

How's that unity in the United Kingdom workin for ya? Lol

Well its been going since 1707 and no civil war yet

Yeah.... did the Jacobite Revolt and the Easter Risings just happen to slip your mind?

And even now, Northern Ireland and Scotland are not a given, not by a long shot. You may well see the loss of both of them in your lifetime.

Sad when an American has to remind you of your own history.

Actually I had considered responding to that post myself, but I am not sure that I understand what he/she was saying.
I mean we are talking about America and Secession in this thread, and I don't want to assume that he does not know that America was once a part of England, so he must be talking about it in some other way,

Well, the American colonies were just that- colonies. Subsidiaries of the British empire, not part of the UK.

I assume he meant armed revolts taking place on UK soil.

Which means he was wrong, seeing as how it's happened multiple times since 1707.

Nvrmind

a reply to: Talorc
Ahh see that is why I did not respond, because as a colony we were still considered citizens if I understand correctly. Just with little in the way of representation.
One day were were citizens and then the next day we were not.

I was not sure what he meant exactly or were his thoughts were on the matter. so I did not want to assume that he did not know something.