Texas will Secede from the Union, 81,000 signatures!

originally posted by: muse7
As a Texan...little stuns like this threatening to secede just give Texans a bad name.

These people are not brave and they are not standing up to anything. What they are making clear though is that they are cowards...that they'd rather run from their problems instead of working alongside other Americans to fix them.

Shame that this secession attitude is still prevalent among many.

exactly how is wanting to remove yourself from a corrupt and broken system, and instead take on the responsibility of running your own state as a country, and all that entails.........cowardice exactly?

Thats like saying that those who wanted to separate from England to create the US were cowards

Texas will never secede from the union.

Nor any other.

500,000 Americans were killed for the last time it was tried.

Do people really want that history repeated ?

This is hilarious. I'd love it if they'd finally put up (since they won't SHUT up about it) but I doubt Texas would have the stones to do it if they were given the option & it was down to zero hour for them.

TMBTM is not considering many things. First, the economy. Sure, you grow & make crap. As do 49 other states & several territories, not to mention other countries. Exactly how low are you prepared to offer things to retain buyers on a global scale being a new country? The CoL would be in flux until that's hammered out.
Which leads to taxes & import & export tariffs. First, the tariffs. You better hope you can compete with the rest of the firmly established states & countries afterward. And be willing to have more poverty to get those industrial balls rolling.

Now on to taxes. You're going to be losing money on lower-priced commodities in effort to be competitive on a world stage. The next course of action to try to balance that out federally is through raised taxes. The money to pay those new government bills is going to have to come from somewhere, especially if you want a functional military to defend yourselves with. Volunteers aren't going to mean sh&% if the cartels south of ya decide "OOOH, look, easy n00b country pickins!" Cartels are a hell of a lot better armed than gun-happy Farmer Jack & Jill are, and tend to have serious weapons & tactics training under their belts. Cartels aside, you never know what Mexico might decide to do. They may see a prime opportunity for a land grab. Pssst! As corrupt as Mexico is, their army is bigger than Texas', and has more toys to lob at you.

Then you'll also have to figure out the diplomatic stuff like embassies. How to pay for them, staff them, how to get other countries to take you seriously with whatever you may need to negotiate on.

Just having ranches, fields and manufacturing plants isn't good enough. You need other resources other countries will be willing to buy. Not just willing to buy either, willing to pay what you need so you don't sink to 3rd world.

As a personal aside I just think its funny that Texas is getting this bad rap for some of them wanting to Secede from the Union, as if their desire to do so is based on them being arrogant conservative types, as opposed to just wanting to self govern.

a reply to: Nyiah

very long post to forget one thing

Its not that "other states make crap"

Its that we lead so many in production, to suddenly have a loss of what provides for an entire country makes a huge difference......

Especially, food, tech, and energy.....

To think for one second that this would not have a HUGE impact on the rest of the US....

Again ive addressed EVERYTHING in your post ad nasuem in this thread over and over, and im really getting tired of repeating myself to refute tired arguments.......

Read my past posts........

Economist disagree with you, many many many of them..........

I take what they have to say more in consideration then random people on ATS who have an armchair degree.........

originally posted by: Punisher75
As a personal aside I just think its funny that Texas is getting this bad rap for some of them wanting to Secede from the Union, as if their desire to do so is based on them being arrogant conservative types, as opposed to just wanting to self govern.

Thats it right there

Look how nasty people are getting..........

Absolute kneejerk and vitriol

Very telling

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Punisher75

Not all Texans feel this way, and they are Americans as well as Texans.

Of course not all feel this way that's why I said... the Texans who want to secede.
Of course they are Americans... Otherwise they would not be asking to secede from the Union. cause cause you know... there would be nothing for them to secede from.

Cute. I see you've found your spot.

In your rush to make the most simplistic comment possible, you completely overlooked the point.

Not all Texans wish to secede, in fact, probably not even a majority, but we'll leave that be.

The Texans who do not wish to are still American citizens. If some sort of simple percentage breakdown were used, like say turnout in the last Presidential election, about 11-12 million Texans would want to remain Americans.

No "foreign nation" is going to be allowed to displace or otherwise take jurisdiction over American citizens by force without reprisal from the United States.

Thinking a step or two beyond the obvious is an important trait.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I don't know your Political leanings too much as my post history and visits to ATS are spotty at best. (I tend to come to ATS for a week or so then take a few months off.)

1.) However, I wonder what are your views are on Bernie Sanders home state of Vermont's Secession attempt in 2010?
content.time.com...

2.) What do think that the opinion is on their population by the rest of the country after their attempt at secession?

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yep, you're "12th in the world" ... within the framework of the United States.

It will be interesting to see what Texas can do on her own.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The Texans who do not wish to are still American citizens.

So are those who wish they could....

Thinking a step or two beyond the obvious is an important trait.

lol Indeed.......the irony

originally posted by: Punisher75
As a personal aside I just think its funny that Texas is getting this bad rap for some of them wanting to Secede from the Union, as if their desire to do so is based on them being arrogant conservative types, as opposed to just wanting to self govern.

Hey, I don't have a problem with them wanting to self govern. They elect their own governor, right? And they select their own mayors too, as well as their own local representatives & members to their State legislature. They can have HOA's, neighborhood watch, school boards, and other forms of local and statewide rule-making if they want to. So it's not really a problem of "self governing", because they're already governing themselves. It's not like citizens of Minnesota or Oregon are picking Texas leaders or state policies, is it?

That's why this keeps boiling down to the federal level. They can't be members of the United States of America without having to follow US federal law. That's the whole point in the United States. If they don't want the responsibilities of being a full State, they could always petition to drop their status to a "US Protectorate" or "US Territory" like Guam or Puerto Rico. The citizens of those 2 are still American citizens but their governments have different relations with the US federal government. But maybe we could work something out so Texas would be able to... wait a sec...

Oh snap! Maybe we could get Texas to drop its status from State to "US Protectorate"?! Then Texans would still be Americans & still get the benefits of US citizenship. But we could make the treaty so the US federal government would stay out of Texan affairs in return for Texas staying out of US federal affairs. Oh snap! Then Texas wouldn't have anything to do with the US federal government! Which means no Texas in the House of Reps or the Senate, and no Texas votes towards the US Presidency! That would be a win-win position! Yes yes, something good came from this after all!

I think I'll go test this proposal with my conservative & centrist friends, to see what they think about it. Muahahaha!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yep, you're "12th in the world" ... within the framework of the United States.

It will be interesting to see what Texas can do on her own.

it would be, if it happened which it wont.......

originally posted by: Punisher75
As a personal aside I just think its funny that Texas is getting this bad rap for some of them wanting to Secede from the Union, as if their desire to do so is based on them being arrogant conservative types, as opposed to just wanting to self govern.

Yep, this is all real funny. By some of them, I am assuming you are referring to the Texas Nationalist Movement. Just happens, they are holding a meeting in Amarillo today. From their website, this is how big of an event expected there.


Saturday, August 01, 2015 at 02:00 PM · 60 rsvps
Holiday Inn Express & Suites Amarillo South in Amarillo, TX

Source

A state of 26 million citizens, letting 60 citizens decide their fate?

I have read some vile and hateful things on ATS, but this thread takes the cake. Texans have no desire or intention of seceding from the union. It is a great state, as are ALL of the states in the union. The movie "Idiocracy" has nothing on this thread.

Used to be "These United States of America" meant something to be proud of, and worth defending. Now we are just the "United States of America". I'm still proud of either, as everyone is, except the 60 loons meeting in Amarillo.

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I don't know your Political leanings too much as my post history and visits to ATS are spotty at best. (I tend to come to ATS for a week or so then take a few months off.)

1.) However, I wonder what are your views are on Bernie Sanders home state of Vermont's Secession attempt in 2010?
content.time.com...

2.) What do think that the opinion is on their population by the rest of the country after their attempt at secession?

im conservative....

To be honest I didnt even know that they tried!

that being said, I guess that means i didnt see a lot of vitriol and angst towards them about it lol... again that being said, I find it pretty hypocritical that there is so much anger at Texas, but not for them.....speaks volumes actually

I dont understand the whole outrage over it either........

IF a state wants to do so , why does that warrant outrage and anger and hate......its just.......weird.....

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Gryphon66

The Texans who do not wish to are still American citizens.

So are those who wish they could....

Thinking a step or two beyond the obvious is an important trait.

lol Indeed.......the irony

Yes, but those who wish to secede would not be Americans after an imaginary secession.

Those who do not wish to secede would still be Americans.

Is this apparent complexity getting through to you yet?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Punisher75

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Punisher75

Not all Texans feel this way, and they are Americans as well as Texans.

Of course not all feel this way that's why I said... the Texans who want to secede.
Of course they are Americans... Otherwise they would not be asking to secede from the Union. cause cause you know... there would be nothing for them to secede from.

Cute. I see you've found your spot.

In your rush to make the most simplistic comment possible, you completely overlooked the point.

Not all Texans wish to secede, in fact, probably not even a majority, but we'll leave that be.

The Texans who do not wish to are still American citizens.

No "foreign nation" is going to be allowed to displace or otherwise take jurisdiction over American citizens by force without reprisal from the United States.

Thinking a step or two beyond the obvious is an important trait.

Well I responded to both of your statements. What thinking beyond a step or two are you talking about? You made to factual claims.

I am in agreement with both of your claims.
1.) No not all Texans want to Seceded.
2.) Yes Texans are Americans.

What I don't understand is why you expect two factual claims to equal anything but a nod of "yes you are correct" or a shake of the head and a "No that is incorrect" without some context to the statements.

Its the equivalent of me saying;

1.) The grass is green.
2.) Water is wet.
Then expecting you to have something to add. Jeeze your like my ex wife. LOL

In so far as taking Americans citizens by force... who is forcing anything? I don't recall anything about anyone being held against their will... well except Texas.

Well the ATS motto of Deny Ignorance means absolutely nothing in this thread. Links were provided to a report from Forbes on what an Independent Texas would look like, apparently many have chosen to either not read it, ignore it, or perhaps you are unable to comprehend such thoughts. Just goes to show that the anonymity provided by the internet lead many to insult and use stereotypes as their guides. An actual face to face discussion between intelligent people / people discussing and reading this thread would show more civility and those unwilling to acknowledge facts, accept the rules of law and continue down a productive path to resolve issues such as this - those people would be and should be barred from involvement. ATS member ManBehindTheMask has provided useful information, others as well, that can be utilized to reinforce opinions on both sides. I see very little logic, clear thinking and good common sense being used by some members discussing this secede issue. Perhaps actually identifying the things that are causing the members of this movement to be so frustrated with the US government or policies thereof would be a good place to begin. Blanket statements that are blatantly inaccurate and meant to be hateful for the sake of just being hateful are not useful at all. People making such statements only indicate to others their lack of intelligence and their laziness on not doing research or actually really thinking about something instead of the common "off the cuff" remark(s) and insults. It is indeed sad that many of the comments on this thread lack any real intelligent thought process, in turn your position(s) and your input are irrelevant and therefore should be ignored.
Apologies if you are offended by the truth, not 'my' truth but the truth.
I wish you all a pleasant day.

a reply to: Punisher75

I see I'll need to break it down further.

What happens to the Americans who still live in Texas after secession?

a reply to: StoneFace

1. Line breaks are your friend.

2. 90% of your post is negatively critiquing other responses in the discussion and general musing about how you'd like the conversation to go with little added evidence.

3. You do not have a corner on The Truth.

4. Have a great day yourself!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Punisher75

I see I'll need to break it down further.

What happens to the Americans who still live in Texas after secession?

I suppose they would move if they did not want to be a part of a sovereign Texas. I have heard nothing to indicate they would be held against their will.
Would it suck to have to move?
Yea it would. Life does that to ya sometimes hard choices and all that as I am sure you know.