Texas will Secede from the Union, 81,000 signatures!

a reply to: Punisher75

Not all Texans feel this way, and they are Americans as well as Texans.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Punisher75

Not all Texans feel this way, and they are Americans as well as Texans.

Of course not all feel this way that's why I said... the Texans who want to secede.
Of course they are Americans... Otherwise they would not be asking to secede from the Union. cause cause you know... there would be nothing for them to secede from.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
The op has brought up that Texas wants to Secede from the Union. However that is not as simple or easy or even legal as it may seem.

The first obstacle to overcome would be the legality of it. This question was asked back in 1869 in a US Supreme Court Case: Texas V. White. And a decision of 7 to 1, it was decided that such action was not upheld by the Constitution of the United States of America and thus would be considered an illegal action.

Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase’s majority opinion reads, “The union between Texas and the other states was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the states.”

In 1780 the word "perpetual" meant without renewal, or without sunset clause. It did not mean "binding forever", it meant for as long as it lasts.

Like Regulate meant standardization, not control over.

The Constitution was ratified with the understanding that any power not explicitly written as a national governmental power was reserved to the Sates and the people. Secession is not mentioned in the Constitution and therefore is legal.

a reply to: Punisher75

because its easier to be hateful..........

because so many subscribe to the idea that "I dont agree with you, or your ideas, therefore I must hate you and you are horrible and im going to treat you with contempt"

People arent allowed to think different anymore without being made into things they are not

a reply to: Punisher75

again its easier just to be hateful to them......

All the Texans that ive ever known that were an advocate for secession, wasnt because of what these hateful people on here are claiming......

It was because they were tired of an over reaching government, and a government that violates its people........not the people of the country.......

originally posted by: Punisher75
I don't have a Dog in this fight as I am not from Texas. But I have noticed something strange and maybe folks can help me out.
If Texas wanted to become their own nation... let them.

1.) Who cares?

2.) Why sanction them?
Whats wrong with trade?

3.) Why would we not want them to be successful?

4.) Why call them traitors?
Its not as if these Texans who said they want to secede, say they want to join Isis or something. They have made no "declaration of war".

5.) Why not say, sure keep the infrastructure that was built there while you were in the Union? Its not as if Texas citizens did not pay Federal Taxes.
If someone files for divorce, they still get a portion of the household possessions don't they? Texas would not be even asking for half, of the Nations money, infrastructure etc, just the stuff that is within their boundaries. Sounds equitable to me.

6.) They would be fine right up till we invade and take them back?
What kind of idiocy is this? Why would you want to invade and "take them back?" Why not just have trade with them?

None of the vitriol makes any sense at all.
These Texans did not say they want to go to war with the Union they said they did not want to be a part of it.

They obviously don't like the direction the country is going. Is that really that offensive?

God forbid a group of people not want to be a part of the Union and would want to try something different.

There is no way out and no the USA will never allow Texas to form its own country. The USA would fight to maintain its borders. Texans may sign all the petitions they want till the cows come home dont mean squat. Texans may think they can leave but they cant, if they want to leave the country thats a possibility, but they cant take a state and attempt a breakaway.

I would say let them go but it would never happen, there would be war first, if you want independance it has to be fought for. Thats how America got its independence, through revolution. No Texas couldnt win in a conflict with the rest of the USA unless nukes were deployed which would be pretty crazy.

I dont think there would be trade or any of that if they were ever allowed to leave, no Texas would not flourish without the rest of the USA proping it up, it would fall to ruins within a year and be begging to come back to the USA in no time.

Yes they would be considered traitors if they left, and yes they would be sanctioned, and there would most likley be war too.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I have only been to Texas once in my life and it was only for about 2 weeks or so, so I am far from an expert on the place, but from what I saw they were not to different from folks in Ohio, were I lived at the time.
I saw no real evidence or feeling like Texans were the "Other" so to speak.
If the Cultural differences in Texas were not really much different than the culture of southwestern Ohio, which is in the Midwest, I really don't get it.
What I mean by that, is there is no place more "humdrum" than Ohio where I am from. There was nothing Shocking about how Texans acted at all, so its not as if people can even rely on "They are so strange there, and I am scared". to justify any of the attitudes. LOL

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I dont think there would be trade or any of that if they were ever allowed to leave, no Texas would not flourish without the rest of the USA proping it up, it would fall to ruins within a year and be begging to come back to the USA in no time.

again more opinion when FACTS , and most economists out there , disagree with you

But HEY, what are facts worth when you can just drivel on with more hatefulness and attitude......

LOLOLOL IDGAF!

originally posted by: Punisher75
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I have only been to Texas once in my life and it was only for about 2 weeks or so, so I am far from an expert on the place, but from what I saw they were not to different from folks in Ohio, were I lived at the time.
I saw no real evidence or feeling like Texans were the "Other" so to speak.
If the Cultural differences in Texas were not really much different than the culture of southwestern Ohio, which is in the Midwest, I really don't get it.
What I mean by that, is there is no place more "humdrum" than Ohio where I am from. There was nothing Shocking about how Texans acted at all, so its not as if people can even rely on "They are so strange there, and I am scared". to justify any of the attitudes. LOL

Yeah its really weird that people have this idea of Texas like that shown on this thread.........

Just shows me most of them that are throwing out the attitude about even the thought of this, have probably NEVER been to Texas

All they know are stereotypes and their own bias, and no amount of facts will get in the way of that

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Well at least you feel they should be allowed to leave if they want right?
I mean otherwise its bondage.
Might as well put a fence up now around Texas cause apparently there are many who think they should be prisoners.
Texas first Full on FEMA Camp in the USA
Why do I have Hotel California playing in my head?

Fortune favors the prepared.

India and Pakistan got their chance after 50 years of economic decline in Great Britain.

Economic factors are the real variables that make things possible.

Every one who votes needs to know economics, or else the economy will wane into debt slavery for the 99%

That is, newborns will owe more money than they will make in their entire lifetime.

Many states will want secede before then.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

I dont think there would be trade or any of that if they were ever allowed to leave, no Texas would not flourish without the rest of the USA proping it up, it would fall to ruins within a year and be begging to come back to the USA in no time.

again more opinion when FACTS , and most economists out there , disagree with you

But HEY, what are facts worth when you can just drivel on with more hatefulness and attitude......

LOLOLOL IDGAF!

There are no facts in the fantasy of Texas being its own country, that is just a looney fantasy that will never come to pass. All anyone can do is speculate on what would happen if it ever did happen, and it wont, so there are no facts to go on because Texas is part of the USA, without the USA Texas would be less than nothing, the USA would make sure of that.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yep cause every Texan has a confederate flag, on their front lawn, along with the Texas Flag they all have 4-wheel drives. Everyone wears a cowboy hat and owns a ranch.
Huge Mustaches are big in Texas.... the bigger the better.
Every man over the age of 50 looks JUST LIKE Sam Elliot.
Every man under the age of 50 Looks JUST LIKE Stone Cold Steve Austin.
And most importantly, All Texans pray three times a day in the direction of, and make a pilgrimage to the Alamo.

a reply to: Punisher75

1.) Who cares?

Beats me. They're not really going to do it so it's a moot point. But they love to bring it up from time to time so I'm guessing they care? Also, we're on a conspiracy forum. We're free to discuss whatever we want as long as it's allowed, right?

2.) Why sanction them? Whats wrong with trade?

It's actually the opposite of sanctions. They derive many of their trade benefits from American trade agreements, free trade agreements, American infrastructure, and economic policies. So they would instantly lose all of those agreements & the perks associated with them the second they formed a separate nation. They'd have to renegotiate all free trade agreements which currently allow them to import & export from partner nations without tariffs. But since conservatives always claim they're against free trade agreements and the UN...

3.) Why would we not want them to be successful?

They can be as successful as possible. That's great. I've even said several times now that both the left & right could finally move forward & quit the whole left vs right crap.

4. Why call them traitors? Its not as if these Texans who said they want to secede, say they want to join Isis or something.

It doesn't work like that. They're currently American citizens. They'd have to literally quit the USA & renounce their citizenship to become a foreign nation. And since no dual citizenship treaty has been signed between the 2 nations, they would no longer be American citizens. Though I guess the term "expat" is a nicer way to say it, right?

5.) Why not say, sure keep the infrastructure that was built there while you were in the Union?

I'd be open to that. But the bases are US military bases, not Texas State bases. The soldiers are citizens of various States & US territories. And the weaponry and equipment was paid for by all American citizens, not just Texans.

6.) They would be fine right up till we invade and take them back? What kind of idiocy is this? Why would you want to invade and "take them back?" Why not just have trade with them?

I wouldn't! I've said it before, I like Texas for the most part. But politically, it would mean a permanent power shift to the left at the national level. So no "do overs" here.

These Texans did not say they want to go to war with the Union they said they did not want to be a part of it.

If that's true, why are they Americans now? Why not just renounce their citizenships & leave now? If they really don't want to be a part of the United States, there's nothing stopping them from doing so right now. There are American expats all over the world right now for that very reason. Instead, it comes off as being hypocritical. Because many of the same people claiming they're patriots & complaining when people don't stand up or put their hands over their hearts for the national anthem are the same people who keep saying they want to leave the nation. Which one is it? They love the country or they want to leave it?

They obviously don't like the direction the country is going. Is that really that offensive?

Nope.

God forbid a group of people not want to be a part of the Union and would want to try something different.

Like I said above, they're free to "try something different" right now. But the rest of us are sick of hearing the constant "screw America, America would sink without us" BS. They don't seem too eager to try this different path while they're enjoying all of the perks of being American citizens, do they?

I wonder if Austin, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio could secede from Texas

a reply to: Semicollegiate
Not according to the Court Case that was mentioned. Now if you can provide legal bearing on such, then it may be something to argue in court. And there would be much to lose. First would be the economic base would take a hit. The state says it breaks away, if the US government does not object, all it has to do is simply cut off the vital resources needed. Divert all shipping away and ultimately put a strangle hold on the state, where it would have only 2 choices, one agree not to, or deal with a country it does not like, Mexico.

And the past few years of drought has been hard on the state, pushing its water resources to the limits. And the state sure seems to need a lot of federal funding every year, cause of the tornadoes hitting it every year, doing alot of damage. Combined with a few other problems brewing in the state, it is not going to be pretty.

There is one other problem and this is one that has been asked time and time again, how does one separate out its economies from a union of other states? No one is sure, and most experts all agree, it could be very messy.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord
With no airforce, or navy, or any real military hardware, it would be a short fight.

The one thing that no one has considered is this: Texas can split into separate states, and does not need the approval of congress.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: enlightenedservant

you said I havent addressed any of your points.........

but you havent asked any questions, youve just made a series of statements........

what are your questions?

Nice try. I asked why you haven't addressed any of my points, not why haven't you answered any specific questions. My posts have been full of the points I'm talking about. I'm not retyping those long posts after rewording them as questions lol. I barely had the patience to type them once.

originally posted by: muse7
I wonder if Austin, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio could secede from Texas

why would they want to?

They love it here in Texas, ESPECIALLY Austin.......with the music industry theyve made and what theyve carved out for themselves......why would they?

Again another attempt to pigeonhole Texas and Texans.....

Fail