The Deception of 1 Timoty 4:1 is Happening now, and you are Buying it.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: honested3

I was taught by people that really knew their stuff.The War on the Saints has raged for a few decades now- dead,insane or other wise incapacitated is what happened to most.Few if any know much about the spirit world and spiritual warfare any more and no one wants to know in this age of reason and science anyways you are correct the doctrine of demons is about all thats out there now.The great lie is I am a God.

I was taught by the same people as well, and I know all about spiritual warfare and the armor of God, in fact I am just like you raised in the same way, Scary huh? I do believe spiritual warfare is real, and it is among mostly those lost in their version of God's love, such as the fundamental church. Let me ask you to answer something for me;

If God is perfect unfailing love, and God is also all knowing. How come God then knowingly creates a person knowing that this person will choose to reject Him and go to hell? God essentially creates someone to go to hell. This either means God is not pure love, or that God is not all knowing, if He does not possess both then He is not really God.

So what does that lead you to? You have to either accept that God is not really God but a hateful one and you can keep believing the lies in your Bible. Or you can do as I have done, and use the brain the Lord has given you to realize that man has put limits on God's love and that God by logic and definition is incapable of sending people to hell, that means hell doesn't even exist other than the one that mankind has created.

Let's see an answer to that and I will reply in a couple of days.

a reply to: honested3

Im afraid after all my trials and tribulations my faith these days is somewhat poor,heard a story today about a little girl who put angels in her bed to protect her from her father who molests her,guess what the angels never came,they never came for me either.Family and friends is all you have try to hold onto them if you can.

Yes God is evil.

originally posted by: honested3

Yes. I believe the Bible has some truths in it but that the majority of it was sabotaged by man in order to control other people. So yes that would be mostly a fairy tale.

Interesting. Very, very interesting. I can't say I've ever met a self-proclaimed Christian who thought the Bible was mostly fairytales.

That's the second oxymoron you've presented thus far... the first being your OP.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: honested3

Yes. I believe the Bible has some truths in it but that the majority of it was sabotaged by man in order to control other people. So yes that would be mostly a fairy tale.

Interesting. Very, very interesting. I can't say I've ever met a self-proclaimed Christian who thought the Bible was mostly fairytales.

That's the second oxymoron you've presented thus far... the first being your OP.

What part of the bible do Christians use to claim that being born transgender is a sin?

a reply to: Cuervo

Who said being born transgender is a sin?

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Cuervo

Who said being born transgender is a sin?

Umm... most Christians have a bit of an issue with it.

a reply to: Cuervo

Well I can't speak for most Christians, I can only speak for myself.

I don't see it as a sin, I see it as an illness... just as your doctor does. But only one of us is considered a hateful bigot... and its not the doctor. Why is that?

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Cuervo

Well I can't speak for most Christians, I can only speak for myself.

I don't see it as a sin, I see it as an illness... just as your doctor does. But only one of us is considered a hateful bigot... and its not the doctor. Why is that?

Because the doctor understands what kind of illness it is where as others often think of it as a mental illness. It is not. I have yet to see one of those people who claim it is produce a PHD to me.

a reply to: Cuervo

Have a good night Cuervo.

Gender makes no difference. A beautiful soul is a beautiful soul. A spirit having a human experience. . The light of some souls shining thru what they are.

But the verse used in Timothy will be used by the sect to keep the awareness in themselves blind to objective logic and truth forever trapped in duality ideas not seeing beyond them.

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." 1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)

Paul wrote Timothy. It is brainwashing for the masses to keep oneself spiritually trapped in his view/sect.

Christ means anointment and Yeshua was a teacher on how to reach it (not the only one sent). Paul is a teacher on how not to follow Yeshuas teachings but how to follow the will of people in power. An anti-Christ.

I see the same manipulation in the Quran from Muhammad. Paul and Muhammad the makers of dogma that hid objective truth for 1500 years and brought the dark ages. Paul and Muhammad would be the firsts kind of persons to throw stones at homosexuals without thinking about their actions and what karma it brings, saying they are doing gods will. They can manipulate the masses but their wolf like being shines thru when you question their teachings.

When the end of a religions comes the religion/sect must work harder to keep the sect going and become blind faith when the lies of the sect comes out.

In some other religions I cannot see the deception. Either because I am to blind to see it or because it is not there.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: honested3

Most of the LGBT(I think I got that right) community here hates Christianity with a passion,probably with good reason,just throw away the dogma and doctrine and follow St Augustines advice,'love God and do what thou whilst'.

Strictly speaking there are transmittable sexual demons and deviations from the norm are an invitation to get infested with such,but the world does not wish to know that anymore.A true follower of Yeshua is careful shaking hands let alone sex.

I do not judge people whose shoes I have not walked in but I have met true Christians.

If we ever claw back to the 144000 level,then something might happen.

but I doubt it.

Give my your definition in the 144000?

We are all in the in between so it is hard to be perfect here with the outside influence but we can do our best.

I have seen Christians who follow Yeshua in spirit. They are very beautiful souls. One of them was a high level empath. You just wanna hug her when you see her.

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: honested3

Yes. I believe the Bible has some truths in it but that the majority of it was sabotaged by man in order to control other people. So yes that would be mostly a fairy tale.

Interesting. Very, very interesting. I can't say I've ever met a self-proclaimed Christian who thought the Bible was mostly fairytales.

That's the second oxymoron you've presented thus far... the first being your OP.

What part of the bible do Christians use to claim that being born transgender is a sin?

Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

a reply to: honested3

I have some questions:

1. How long have you believed that gay marriage is something to be celebrated?

2. What Bible verses led you to change your mind?

3. How would you make a positive case from Scripture that sexual activity between two persons of the same sex is a blessing to be celebrated?

4. What verses would you use to show that a marriage between two persons of the same sex can adequately depict Christ and the church?

5. Do you think Jesus would have been okay with homosexual behavior between consenting adults in a committed relationship?

6. If so, why did he reassert the Genesis definition of marriage as being one man and one woman?

7. When Jesus spoke against porneia what sins do you think he was forbidding?

8. If some homosexual behavior is acceptable, how do you understand the sinful “exchange” Paul highlights in Romans 1?

9. Do you believe that passages like 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Revelation 21:8 teach that sexual immorality can keep you out of heaven?

10. What sexual sins do you think they were referring to?

11. As you think about the long history of the church and the near universal disapproval of same-sex sexual activity, what do you think you understand about the Bible that Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, and Luther failed to grasp?

12. What arguments would you use to explain to Christians in Africa, Asia, and South America that their understanding of homosexuality is biblically incorrect and your new understanding of homosexuality is not culturally conditioned?

13. Do you think Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were motivated by personal animus and bigotry when they, for almost all of their lives, defined marriage as a covenant relationship between one man and one woman?

14. Do you think children do best with a mother and a father?

15. If not, what research would you point to in support of that conclusion?

16. If yes, does the church or the state have any role to play in promoting or privileging the arrangement that puts children with a mom and a dad?

17. Does the end and purpose of marriage point to something more than an adult’s emotional and sexual fulfillment?

18. How would you define marriage?

19. Do you think close family members should be allowed to get married?

20. Should marriage be limited to only two people?

21. On what basis, if any, would you prevent consenting adults of any relation and of any number from getting married?

22. Should there be an age requirement in this country for obtaining a marriage license?

23. Does equality entail that anyone wanting to be married should be able to have any meaningful relationship defined as marriage?

24. If not, why not?

25. Should your brothers and sisters in Christ who disagree with homosexual practice be allowed to exercise their religious beliefs without fear of punishment, retribution, or coercion?

26. Will you speak up for your fellow Christians when their jobs, their accreditation, their reputation, and their freedoms are threatened because of this issue?

27. Will you speak out against shaming and bullying of all kinds, whether against gays and lesbians or against Evangelicals and Catholics?

28. Since the evangelical church has often failed to take unbiblical divorces and other sexual sins seriously, what steps will you take to ensure that gay marriages are healthy and accord with Scriptural principles?

29. Should gay couples in open relationships be subject to church discipline?

30. Is it a sin for LGBT persons to engage in sexual activity outside of marriage?

31. What will open and affirming churches do to speak prophetically against divorce, fornication, pornography, and adultery wherever they are found?

32. If “love wins,” how would you define love?

33. What verses would you use to establish that definition?

34. How should obedience to God’s commands shape our understanding of love?

35. Do you believe it is possible to love someone and disagree with important decisions they make?

36. If supporting gay marriage is a change for you, has anything else changed in your understanding of faith?

37. As an evangelical, how has your support for gay marriage helped you become more passionate about traditional evangelical distinctives like a focus on being born again, the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ on the cross, the total trustworthiness of the Bible, and the urgent need to evangelize the lost?

38. What open and affirming churches would you point to where people are being converted to orthodox Christianity, sinners are being warned of judgment and called to repentance, and missionaries are being sent out to plant churches among unreached peoples?

39. Do you hope to be more committed to the church, more committed to Christ, and more committed to the Scriptures in the years ahead?

40. When Paul at the end of Romans 1 rebukes “those who practice such things” and those who “give approval to those who practice them,” what sins do you think he has in mind?

Food for thought, I hope. At the very least, something to chew on before swallowing everything the world and Facebook put on our plate.

Although, we do agree that this is the time of the great falling away although not exactly in the way that you might mean.

originally posted by: honested3

originally posted by: coldkidc
If you're getting told to hate gay people and "sinners" then you are going to the wrong Christian churches.

Jesus specifically told us to love one another as he loves us.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with their lifestyle choice though - it's two separate issues.

It is one thing to say you love someone by showing support and acceptance for who they are as God made them.

It is another thing to say you love someone who you don't agree with and then turn a cold shoulder and say "I don't agree with their lifestyle" when in fact say you love only to appear holy amongst your own and deny human rights to me.

"Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth." 1 John 3:18

You love only with words, but your actions do not reflect that, and your truth is just that, your version of truth which is to perpetuate the policies and beliefs that control the lives of other, such as denying gay marriage for so long. or the fact that I am not included as a participant deserving human rights in my lovely state of Idaho because I am considered an assault unto the Lord.

By that reasoning, I should allow my 4-year-old to do whatever he wants. It is loving and accepting of his lifestyle. In reality, I say no to him all the time because I know what's appropriate and right for him. If I didn't guide and moderate his behavior, he'd grow up into an awful, self-entitled human being.



So I must not love my own child.

a reply to: Klassified

Deuteronomy is part of the Old Covenant, Jesus was said to have done away with the Old Covenant. It seems as though Christians will cherry pick what they do or do not like within the bible to support their views. Very convenient. (This is not directed towards you)

Jesus taught acceptance of everyone, not just who you want to accept. If you don't accept someones sexuality then you do not accept who they are, Jesus accepted everyone and taught us to do so. If you are against gay rights then you are against what Jesus taught in my opinion.

And just in case it's brought up, pedophilia is a form of sexuality but it doesn't involve a mutual agreement between two adults. One person is being taken advantage of and hurt in the process, a child. Jesus would not agree with that because "do unto others".

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Deuteronomy is part of the Old Covenant, Jesus was said to have done away with the Old Covenant. It seems as though Christians will cherry pick what they do or do not like within the bible to support their views. Very convenient. (This is not directed towards you)

Indeed it is, but like you said. Cherry picking. Although there is your favorite epistle writer. Paul - Romans chapter 1.

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: honested3

Yes. I believe the Bible has some truths in it but that the majority of it was sabotaged by man in order to control other people. So yes that would be mostly a fairy tale.

Interesting. Very, very interesting. I can't say I've ever met a self-proclaimed Christian who thought the Bible was mostly fairytales.

That's the second oxymoron you've presented thus far... the first being your OP.

What part of the bible do Christians use to claim that being born transgender is a sin?

Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Let's look at that whole chapter:

22 If you see your fellow Israelite’s ox or sheep straying, do not ignore it but be sure to take it back to its owner. 2 If they do not live near you or if you do not know who owns it, take it home with you and keep it until they come looking for it. Then give it back. 3 Do the same if you find their donkey or cloak or anything else they have lost. Do not ignore it.

4 If you see your fellow Israelite’s donkey or ox fallen on the road, do not ignore it. Help the owner get it to its feet.

5 A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.

6 If you come across a bird’s nest beside the road, either in a tree or on the ground, and the mother is sitting on the young or on the eggs, do not take the mother with the young. 7 You may take the young, but be sure to let the mother go, so that it may go well with you and you may have a long life.

8 When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof.

9 Do not plant two kinds of seed in your vineyard; if you do, not only the crops you plant but also the fruit of the vineyard will be defiled.[a]

10 Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together.

11 Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together.

12 Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear.

So... If you plant more than one crop in your garden bed, plow with the wrong animals, wear mixed fibers, or forget to attach your tassels... you are going to the same hell reserved for transfolk.

It sounds like the only people not going to hell are inefficient farmers and walking fashion tragedies.

a reply to: honested3

Yes. I believe the Bible has some truths in it but that the majority of it was sabotaged by man in order to control other people. So yes that would be mostly a fairy tale.

You asked for an opinion so in light of that I hope that you are not offended to those who disagree with you. You state that you believe that the majority of the bible was sabotaged to keep people under control. Have you really thought this through or are you simply parroting an excuse?

Do you understand that the NT is comprised of over 5,000 manuscripts which have been translated, transliterated and interpreted by thousand of scholars of many languages and in geographical areas of this world and all in eras of years apart? And do you realize that amazingly they agree for the most part of the intent of the biblical authors? Then where is this conspiracy of control that you speak of?

Now it may be true that some doctrines of groups of people have and still do control their flocks with other means but did you realize that most all control is from ignorance and laziness of the people who will not study or read with understanding? There was a time in the dark ages that the scriptures were with held from people and it is true that through ignorance they were controlled to act and think the way they were taught but those days have been long gone and no longer exist.

Are you aware that the God of Abram is not just love? Do you understand that there are many faces of the English word love? Love means one thing in referencing mom or dad but quite another thing in referring to God. God loves all of His creation with permissive will but not with His perfect will. If the majority 5,000 manuscripts tell us that there is a hell then according to those manuscripts there is a hell. Regardless of whether you want to believe it or not, according to those manuscripts there is a hell for those who will not accept the teachings of those manuscripts. According to those booklets that teach there is a hell then God cannot be all love. Why else would He create a hell?

The problem now is that can we pick out what we want form those manuscripts and disregard the offending portions? We can and many of do just that with the excuse that the offending portions are wrong. An example is that we can read where Jesus loves sinners. He does indeed love sinners but only when they are alive. When a sinner dies as a sinner then that old "hell" thing stands in our way. That's the thing we don't really want to look at so what do we do? Well, we make an excuse and that excuse is generally that it's just there to control you. You are right. God put that hell thing there to control you and me but He never ever told us to do something that He would not do. Jesus proves that.

a reply to: Klassified

Yes, Paul implies that homosexuality is wrong but he is not Jesus. Jesus says that some are born eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom, I see that as him saying some are born homosexual. Eunuchs do not reproduce, neither do homosexuals.

a reply to: honested3
My wife had a lesbial affair, and even though I was still deeply in love with her, I had to divorce her and let her go. It really hurt my children and effected them immensly. I was in bad shape for 5 years. She eventually abandoned our children by moved to the bay area to live with her girlfriend. Im sorry to have hurt your feelings. I hope your wounds I caused heal someday.