Just Wondering...

a reply to: skyeagle409

I would be more than happy to go in head-to-head challenge with any so-called iron worker in a debate.

I thought we were having one now.

a reply to: randyvs

No Randy you are not having a debate, that would require some semblance of a fair fight, clearly you are not fighting fair, you have way to much common sense. So, no debate, sorry!

a reply to: tigertatzen

I really appreciate our contribution to the OP. Clearly, you get it.

a reply to: skyeagle409

I am an aircraft structural technician who understands the specifics of what happened as well as a pilot to understand that truthers have been posting disinformation and lies over the years since the 9/11 attack.

Yes, we all know your "credentials" by now, since that must be at least the tenth time you've listed them. But having the distinction of being able to clean and repair plane parts is not synonymous with being an expert in the areas of demolition, building construction or architecture, now is it? Anyone can take flying lessons and become a pilot...it's really not that complicated, I promise.

But we're not talking about you, right? We're talking about the structural integrity of the WTC. So far, all you've been able to come up with is some old toy factory in Thailand and a bunch of unsubstantiated nonsense from equally unsubstantiated and extremely biased websites that seem to be experiencing such severe technical difficulties (this is me being extra generous, by the way) that they've had to shut the page down.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the people who have consistently countered your repetitive, convoluted posts and actually do possess knowledge of the type of construction we are discussing have sufficiently shown that you have no idea what you are talking about, and posting the same thing 836528354048706584356439865943863489 times in a row is simply not going to change that. In other words, put up or shut up.

It gets really old after a while, seeing someone repeatedly call people who were actually at Ground Zero on that day "liars". It truly does. Some of these people are my friends. They deserve better than that. The people who's lives were ended that day and over the days afterward deserve better than that. The witnesses were not lying, nor are they now, and it is the absolute height of disrespect to say that they are...and that is precisely what you are saying.

The problem is, Hollywood is one thing, commercial demolition of buildings is anorher, so once again, demolition companies to not use such devices to demolish tall buildings.

Yes, they most definitely do use remote detonators to demolish buildings. They have been used for years and years. You seem to have conveniently ignored the part where I clearly stated that remote detonation is used in the demolition of buildings and just skipped straight to the movie industry, but here's some reading material for you. Educate yourself a bit, it'll be good for you.

Whether working in heavy or light manufacturing areas for the petrochemical, metal, power generation or automotive industries, Controlled Demolition Incorporated’s implosion capabilities and DREXS (Directional Remote Explosive Severance) System facilitate the demolition or dismantling of all types of steel and concrete facilities to provide the safe, expeditious and cost-effective removal of industrial structures.

Four (4), 3,000 ton blast furnaces fell to Controlled Demolition Incorporated’s expertise at the US Steel Plant in Youngstown, Ohio to clear the land for future development. In all, Controlled Demolition Incorporated has felled 32 blast furnaces and hundreds of stoves, stacks and other steel mill structures across the United States as the US industry revamps for the 21st Century. Controlled Demolition Incorporated also serves contractors and owners in dozens of other industries in their plant modernization programs.

REMOTE DETONATION

a reply to: randyvs

Let's go here. Can office fires weaken structural steel of the WTC buildings to the point of failure? Yes or not.

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

Thank you. In turn, I really appreciate you posting the OP and hanging in there despite the derision that has been repeatedly aimed at you.

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

No Randy you are not having a debate, that would require some semblance of a fair fight, clearly you are not fighting fair, you have way to much common sense. So, no debate, sorry!

It was no debate at all when the following are taken into consideration and since you missed it before, here they are again for your review.

Indications of the Imminent Collapseof the World Trade Center BuildingsDisprove Explosives Theory

"The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings." They could see that the exterior steel beams of the buildings were bowing. You can see the inward bowing of the steel columns in pictures of both WTC 2, (the first building to collapse) and WTC 1 (the second building to collapse.)

"According to Shyam Sunder, the concave bowing of the steel was seen on the sides of the towersopposite where the planes hit them. At 10:06 a.m. that morning, an officer in a police helicopter reported that ``it's not going to take long before the north tower comes down.'' This was 20 minutes before it collapsed. In another radio transmission at 10:21 a.m., the officer said he saw buckling in the north tower's southern face, Shyam Sunder said."

"Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame-engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tiltedas it came crashing down."
"The report includes photographs taken from police helicopters showing the bending columns."

Key findings include:
Floor sagging and exposure to high temperatures caused the perimeter columns to bow inward and buckle—a process that spread across the faces of the buildings.

Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour.

The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat.
Read more here: Police, Firemen and Civilians Saw Warning Signs of Collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11th 2001


Did experts on the scene think WTC 7 was a controlled demolition?

Whom should we ask to find out if WTC 7’s collapse resembled an explosive demolition? How about asking the explosive demolition experts who were on the scene on 9/11? Brent Blanchard of Protec:

"Several demolition teams had reached Ground Zero by 3:00 pm on 9/11, and these individuals witnessed the collapse of WTC 7 from within a few hundred feet of the event. We have spoken with several who possess extensive experience in explosive demolition, and all reported seeing or hearing nothing to indicate an explosive detonation precipitating the collapse.

As one eyewitness told us, "We were all standing around helpless...we knew full well it was going to collapse. Everyone there knew. You gotta remember there was a lot of confusion and we didn't know if another plane was coming...but I never heard explosions like demo charges.

We knew with the damage to the building and how hot the fire was, that building was gonna go, so we just waited, and a little later it went."

www.implosion...... of 9-8-06 .pdf

Controlled Demolition Inc

D.H. Griffin Companies

Mazzocchi Wrecking

Gateway Demolition

Yannuzzi Demolition & Disposal


Temperature and Strength of Metals

Influence of temperature on the strength of metals

Some common types of steel lose 10% of their strength at 450 C (840 F), and 40% at 550 C (1022 F). At temperatures above 800 C ( 1475 F), it has lost 90% of its strength. Other types of steel are made to stand higher temperatures before losing 10% of their strength, but they are much more expensive (and are weaker at room temperature).

And there are types which actually get stronger, up to 450 F (but then get a lot weaker at higher temperatures

www.engineeringtoolbox.com...



Buckling Steel

According to Shyam-Sunder, the concave bowing of the steel was seen on the sides of the towers opposite where the planes hit them. At 10:06 a.m. that morning, an officer in a police helicopter reported that ``it's not going to take long before the north tower comes down.'' This was 20 minutes before it collapsed. In another radio transmission at 10:21 a.m., the officer said he saw buckling in the north tower's southern face, Shyam-Sunder said. The report includes photographs taken from police helicopters showing the bending columns.

Police had already ordered a complete evacuation of the north tower at the time those transmissions were made, said Police Department Inspector Michael Coan. Both transmissions came after the south tower was already down, he said.


Indications of the Imminent Collapse of the World Trade Center Buildings Disprove Explosives Theory

Scientists investigating the Sept. 11, 2001 collapse of the twin towers said, "the World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground." There would not be telltale signs if it was explosives (Controlled Demolition) that caused the buildings to collapse.

"In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m." New York Daily News reporter Paul Shin wrote in his June 19th, 2004 article 9/11 cops saw collapse coming.

www.representativepress.org...


NYC Police Saw Sign of Tower Collapse, Study Says (Update2)

June 18 (Bloomberg) -- Federal engineering investigators studying the destruction of the World Trade Center's twin towers on Sept. 11 said New York Police Department aviation units reported an inward bowing of the buildings' columns in the minutes before they collapsed, a signal they were about to fall.

www.bloomberg.com...
Why the World Trade Center Buildings Collapsed: A Fire Chief ’s Assessment

Bearing walls and Open floor design

When the jet liners crashed into the towers based upon knowledge of the tower construction and high-rise firefighting experience the following happened: First the plane broke through the tubular steel-bearing wall. This started the building failure. Next the exploding, disintegrating, 185-ton jet plane slid across an open office floor area and severed many of the steel interior columns in the center core area. Plane parts also crashed through the plasterboard-enclosed stairways, cutting off the exits from the upper floors.

The jet collapsed the ceilings and scraped most of the spray-on fire retarding asbestos from the steel trusses. The steel truss floor supports probably started to fail quickly from the flames and the center steel supporting columns severed

vincentdunn.com...

What more likely, planes did it, which we saw.
Or a conspiracy. I never even saw a logical argument.
Seems to have coincided with the Internet phenomenon and social media.
This type of thing would have never spread pre Internet.
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

a reply to: randyvs

Perfectly rational. Can't understand for the life of me how being aviator and
structural designer negates common sense but it does seem to be the case.

Well, you know...some people are a legend in their own mind

a reply to: tigertatzen

Blast furnaces are not tall steel frame buildings. Once again, demolition do not use remote control to demolish tall steel frame buildings in cities.

a reply to: tigertatzen

In this video of WTC 7, I challenge you to point out the time line where demolition explosions can be heard. If you are unable to point out demolition explosions in the video, then you lost that case and then, we can move on to WTC 1 and WTC 2.

Collapse of WTC 7

If you do not know what demolition explosions sound like please review this video.

Sound of Demolition Explosions

a reply to: skyeagle409

He was even caught lying on CNN? Who controls CNN?

a reply to: skyeagle409

Blast furnaces are not tall steel frame buildings. Once again, demolition do not use remote control to demolish tall steel frame buildings in cities.

Make up your mind. Is it that remote detonation isn't used to demolish industrial structures, as you said in your other post, or is it that remote detonation isn't used to demolish "tall steel framed buildings in cities"? You are trying to have your cake and eat it too, and I am not going to entertain that type of childish behavior. There is a whole, big internet out there for you to find that information, despite your apparent inability to post anything other than the same crap you've posted already ten times before on the same thread. You sure can copy and paste, I'll give you props for that at least.

I was kind enough to look up one link and post it for you, in response to your ridiculous statement that remote detonators are not used in industrial demolition. Now, unless you're going to say that they are the only demolition company in existence on the entire planet, your statements above are as flimsy as you'd like us to believe the WTC buildings were.

a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

I take back everything I said in the OP. I am totally convinced now, I am completely wrong in my mental faculties.

It was all very simple. If you don't trust the government what happened to the 9/11 aircraft, all you had to do was to ask American Airlines what happened to American 11 and American 77, and United Airlines what happened to United 93 and United 175, and at what locations those aircraft had crashed. You can then asked them, and the Boeing Co., about the conversion formulas for the FDR's of those aircraft since they pertained to those aircraft only.

Then , you can ask the ATC folks as to what location they tracked American 11, American 77, United 93, and United 175 and then, explain the body of one of the 9/11 hijackers in the wreckage of one of the 9/11 airliners.

9/11 Hijacker Body Found In Cockpit FOX Sept 13 2001
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: tigertatzen

Ask the demolition companies why they don't use remote control to demolish tall steel frame buildings in cities. I might add that no explosives of any kind were used during the 9/11 attack and I challenge you to provide direct evidence.

a reply to: skyeagle409

And once again, you really need to stick to what you know.

9/11 Brent Blanchard outlines the requirements Controlled Demolition of Steel Frame Building

a reply to: skyeagle409

You have had gobs of direct evidence provided to you, and I am not going to waste my time giving you more.

a reply to: tigertatzen

And once again, you really need to stick to what you know.

I do know and we can take a look here and you will notice that demolition experts are parroting what I have been saying for years about the collapse of the WTC buildings.

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSE
Questions & Answers

Implosionworld.com has received numerous inquiries from around the world requesting information and commentary relating to the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001, and specifically the felling of the World Trade Center towers. We have been contacted by media outlets, structural engineers, schoolteachers, conspiracy theorists and many others who are searching for answers and some “perspective” regarding these significant events that have evoked deep emotions and undoubtedly changed our world forever.

The editors of implosionworld.com have created this page to answer a few of the most frequently asked questions that fall within our area of knowledge and expertise. But first we’d like to be clear in stating that any conversation relating to “implosions” and what causes structures to fail is undertaken with reverence and respect to those who perished as a result of this event. As many of our frequent web visitors are aware, Implosionworld.com’s offices are located close to New York City, and several of our employees were personally touched by this tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers remain with the families of those lost and injured, and our intent here is to help foster a constructive base of knowledge and understanding through education, while dispelling false rumors related to the attack.


DID THE WORLD TRADE CENTER TOWERS ACTUALLY “IMPLODE”?
No. They collapsed in an uncontrolled fashion, causing extensive damage to surrounding structures, roadways and utilities. Although when viewed from a distance the towers appeared to have telescoped almost straight down, a closer look at video replays reveal sizeable portions of each building breaking free during the collapse, with the largest sections--some as tall as 30 or 40 stories--actually “laying out” in several directions. The outward failure of these sections is believed to have caused much of the significant damage to adjacent structures, and smaller debris caused structural and cosmetic damage to hundreds of additional buildings around the perimeter of the site.

WHY DID THEY COLLAPSE?
Each 110-story tower contained a central steel core surrounded by open office space, with 18-inch steel tubes running vertically along the outside of the building. These structural elements provided the support for the building, and most experts agree that the planes impacting the buildings alone would not have caused them to collapse. The intense heat from the burning jet fuel, however, gradually softened the steel core and redistributed the weight to the outer tubes, which were slowly deformed by the added weight and the heat of the fire. Eventually, the integrity of these tubes was compromised to the point where they buckled under the weight of the higher floors, causing a gravitational chain reaction that continued until all of the floors were at ground level.

DID THE TERRORISTS PLANT ANY BOMBS IN THE BUILDINGS IN ADVANCE TO GUARANTEE THEIR DEMISE?
To our knowledge there is no evidence whatsoever to support this assertion. Analysis of video and photographs of both towers clearly shows that the initial structural failure occurred at or near the points where the planes impacted the buildings. Furthermore, there is no visible or audible indication that explosives or any other supplemental catalyst was used in the attack.

911-engineers.blogspot.com...