Routine childhood diseases eliminated. Replaced with sudden death.

a reply to: Ironhawke

I strongly disagree.
I hope no one takes you seriously.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Wow, the stupid is strong in that one!

Over 10% of the kids there need epi pens?!?!? That's insane. f course, the vaccine people will be swarming in claiming no correlation. It's all a coincidence. Nothing to see here, move along.

Ever consider home schooling?

As a side note, don't vote Carson- he's for forcing that crap on all of us.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I appreciate your concerns, some new data is tending to suggest that, if the population is to clean, the gut bacteria drop off big time and the allergies increase big time. The kids with the bad allergies are the ones without the general gut bacteria.

In a natural birth the vaginal canal, changes its flora before birth, so on emerging the infant gets coated in the starter bacteria to prime the immune system. The many caesarean births, would null this effect. So we have a population of kids with impaired immune systems, that suddenly have to cope with vaccine that seems to works well on a normal immune systems, because that's who they have tested it on. Add the cleanliness, that stops the kids picking up beneficial bacteria from the environment, and the cluster f%$# continues .So we have to ask what type of havoc will it cause on a damaged immune system. Where 75% of the normal immune system is housed in the gut. The ability to consume natural foodstuffs has got to be one of them.

originally posted by: SubTruth

originally posted by: Ironhawke
Firstly, great job in the Nazi comparison! Because wanting to wipe out disease is exactly the same as trying to take over the world and kill 6 million + people! Bravo!

I am also deeply appreciative of your efforts to help bring back fun times like whooping cough, measles,and mumps! because you know, kids today are wimps.

Sorry for the sarcasm and vitriol. I appreciate you are just looking out for your kids. I really do. But the whole anti-vaccine thing is based on naught but fear and fraudulent "research". And Jim Carrey, who is an expert in...nothing?

Cheers.

The people doing the testing and regulating are 100% corrupt..........Do you see the irony? Maybe we should clean up the regulation and testing side and actually get the real facts about these vaccines. Many conflicts of interests are taking place across this entire mess.


I also wonder why the government does not study the lack of autistic children in the Amish communities.

that is not true about the amish

originally posted by: Nucleardoom
a reply to: Agartha

It's not the only court case involving vaccines to find a ruling in favor of the victim:


Family win 18 year fight over MMR damage to son

Here's another one with some controversy surrounding it:

Hannah Poling

Plus thousands of more cases still pending.

Robert Fletcher does not have autism: an epileptic fit left him brain damaged. From your source:

Professor Lingam said he believed Robert was ‘genetically predisposed to epilepsy and that the vaccination triggered it rather than caused it. 'Robert would have developed epilepsy in any event, even if he had not had the vaccination’.

But Professor Lingam was overruled by his two colleagues. In their final judgment, they accepted that MMR had caused Robert’s illness but added: ‘We would stress that this decision is fact-specific and it should not be seen as a precedent for any other case. 'In particular, it has no relevance to the issue... as to whether there is a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.’

Aproximately 700,000 children are born in the UK every year. According to Mrs Fletchers anti-vaccination site (JABS) in the last 15 years 2000 children have been damaged by the vaccine (according to parents, all seeking complensation). Aproximately 90% have had the MMR, which means in the last 15 years aproximately 9.5 million children have had the MMR with aprox. 2000 adverse side effects: this makes the vaccine 99.99% safe, which makes the vaccine very safe, safer than painkillers you can buy over the counter.

The US statistics mirror the UK's ones: since the creation of NVICP (National Vaccine Injury Compensation program) in 1988 aprox. 92 million children have been born in the US (according to Census.gov). At 95% rate of vaccination we have aprox. 87.4 vaccinated children. 14,548 petitions have been filed under the NVICP program ( www.hrsa.gov..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">LINK )which makes the vaccine 99.99% safe (and this includes all vaccines, not just MMR which makes the safety numbers even higher).

I will not deny that a very small percentage of children (the thousands you mentioned) have severe reactions to vaccines (just like ALL medications may cause severe side effects, even those you buy over the counter), but what statistics show is that vaccines are safe and save lives.

originally posted by: SubTruth

The people doing the testing and regulating are 100% corrupt..........Do you see the irony? Maybe we should clean up the regulation and testing side and actually get the real facts about these vaccines. Many conflicts of interests are taking place across this entire mess.


I also wonder why the government does not study the lack of autistic children in the Amish communities.

Amish communities have a very high incidence of children with cognitive disabilities, including mild and 'high functioning' autism. They have a special clinic just for the Amish: LINK. They believe those disabilities to be caused by inbreeding.

Also, the high majority of Amish do vaccinate their children: LINK

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
I see both sides of the vaccine dilemma. I really do. And have lived through some hell for it...or at least my son did.

But what got me to comment here is the whole deathly allergy to tree nuts thing. I think someone should be trying to figure out why that's on the rise, along with asthma, and autism, and so many other things. What combinations of things are killing us? Our food? Our drugs/vaccines? The sun? The air? Something else?

well said , this is exactly how we should think and discuss these maters , not like the others who are posting rubbish and discrediting others and defending pharma blindly .

originally posted by: Nucleardoom
a reply to: Agartha

It's not the only court case involving vaccines to find a ruling in favor of the victim:

So you basically just ignored the fact that your link was debunked and the story bs, and offered more bs to support your already debunked link?

Millions of kids are living now thanks to vaccination, this is a scientific reality and no amount of propaganda claiming otherwise will change the minds of the rational.
I know that's inconvenient for all you paranoid anti-vaxxers, but that's just the reality of the world.

originally posted by: Nucleardoom
Do you actually follow info regarding vaccines? Do you even know what an adjuvant is? You need to really look into this before you spout off uninformed rhetoric.

And as for people here claiming they are more "informed" - no, you're not more informed than the many hundreds of thousands of medical professionals who have dedicated their lives to their field.

Claiming that you know more than the hundreds of thousands of people who have studied medicine and science for decades and worked in the field their whole lives, just because you read through the nonsense on conspiracy websites, makes you look utterly foolish.

originally posted by: Dr UAE

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
I see both sides of the vaccine dilemma. I really do. And have lived through some hell for it...or at least my son did.

But what got me to comment here is the whole deathly allergy to tree nuts thing. I think someone should be trying to figure out why that's on the rise, along with asthma, and autism, and so many other things. What combinations of things are killing us? Our food? Our drugs/vaccines? The sun? The air? Something else?

well said , this is exactly how we should think and discuss these maters , not like the others who are posting rubbish and discrediting others and defending pharma blindly .

These are two entirely different things.

1. America has a strange relationship with pharma, that goes without saying. That has nothing to do with Vaccination, that has to do with you being in a culture which believes (or hopes) that everything can be solved by taking a pill.

2. An increase of diagnoses does not automatically mean an increase in occurrence.

3. Autism remained unrecognized up until very recently, just as many thousands of other conditions have been and continue to be ignored.

4. A perceived increase in nut allergy could be correlating to increased exposure to them (perhaps people just never knew they were allergic before, given that nuts were not generally used in so many products or present in manufacturing the way they are now?)

5. Still, there is no reason to suspect that there is any correlation to the use of Vaccination. The fact that those who scream about vaccination cannot see past this simplistic link and look a little deeper is a good indication that their assumptions are generally based on ignorance.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Stay the course my friend. We went through a lot dealing with the idiots who cannot articulate a good reason to vaccinate that isn't just an emotionally charged rhetorical assault.

I did not take lightly the decision to steer clear of all vaccines for our children. 20 years ago when our first was coming I spent hundreds of hours researching all the data I could find. It was the dawn of the Internet and information was being rapidly disseminated on this subject for maybe the first time in history. It turned out to be an overwhelming win for the side of not vaccinating at all. The kids are fully grown now and a perfect picture of incredible brains, heart, soul, and body.

I will not go into the public school aspect of this decision we made, but I will say we ended up homeschooling most of K-12.

Along the way we watched a few of our neighbors deal with tragedies caused by childhood vaccines. The incidence of damage is much higher than they would have you believe. In the case of a next door neighbor we saw their 2nd child transform overnight from his second DPT shot. On the fourth day after the shot he had severe seizures that have never stopped. He also went from a bright eyed active boy to a listless one with almost lifeless eyes. He and I had a good connection and it was really tough for me to see him go like that. I honestly felt as if he had dies and what was left was just a shell. That was 15 years ago. Because it was four days after the vaccination it was never counted as a reaction to the vaccine. The doctor told them if it had been the vaccine it would have occurred within 48 hours. Based on just that kind of logic alone you simply cannot take what these people say seriously. This is how they cover up the true incidence of damage. Again and again you find so many people unable to speak truth when it comes to vaccines. You find two kinds of proponents for vaccine. First is the idiot who dares not deviate from the flow of "correctness", and then there is the deviant who is knowingly being deceptive because they have a stake in it. Our firstborn's doctor it turned out received an $8000 annual bonus if he maintained a 92% vaccination rate amongst children in his practice. This was in the UK where I worked for a few years and where my first child was born. Before I left the UK I had convinced him that vaccinations were very suspiciously endorsed and he had lost all respect for the arguments he used to make to push vaccines on his patients. I have seen the damage vaccines can do first hand and I urge you to stay the course.



It is very concerning that the agencies that are charged to protect us are simply not forthcoming with the facts surrounding this issue. It does not make any sense unless you entertain the idea of some sort of conspiracy. It really doesn't.

a reply to: ChiefD

Very good. You get a star today. You tow the line well.

My feeling is that parents should have a choice.

If you choose not to vaccinate, then your child should be exposed to the diseases the vaccinations would prevent, one at a time, each in succession as the child recovers from the previous one.

All this should happen in a quarantined setting to minimize the risk to the rest of the community.

If the child lives, it will have the same natural immunity that the vaccine would have produced.

Harte

originally posted by: FinalCountdown
a reply to: Ironhawke

I strongly disagree.
I hope no one takes you seriously.

Kinda like the way science doesn't take the Pro-Measles err, anti-vaxxer movement, seriously? Except as a credible threat to health?

Seriously, it's mainly based on one guy's "research", which was proved sketchy at best. The fact that kids these days don't tend to get measles, mumps, etc., should be better evidence than "sunshine and play".

1. Vaccines DO help build up an immunity against the intended diseases. This is achieved by introducing weakened or dead strains of said illness.
2. The additives in vaccines ARE toxic. A small amount of toxin introduced to a healthy specimen can usually be filtered out with no problem. Not every body is the same, some people are more sensitive to some things.
3. Some children have life altering negative reactions to vaccines. Yes, it is a small percentage, but it is there. And when it's YOUR kid suffering it doesn't matter if it's 0.009% or 90%.
4. The pharma/medical establishment DOWNPLAYS vaccine casualties. Casualties as in death, and casualties as in neurological damage.
5. Back to point 2. -a healthy body can filter toxins. But what happens when you're being attacked on all fronts? Air pollution, household cleaners, food additives, plastics, etc etc. Like the canary in the mine shaft, children are more vulnerable and the quickest to succumb.
6. As a PP so astutely added- the reason behind the astronomical increase in allergies is our germaphobe society. Our bodies were designed to live in symbiosis with many millions of other organisms. When we get OCD about hand washing, alcohol gel, disinfecting surfaces, panicking when our kids eat off the floor or touch an animal, throwing antibiotics at every little sniffle....our bodies are left with no option but to turn on themselves. *look up Helminthic Therapy for autoimmune diseases
7. Vaccines aren't 100% effective. Some of these outbreaks involved children that HAD been vaccinated.

My personal experience: I waited 6 months to vax my baby. By that point I had a pretty good idea of his cues and what was normal for him. His first shot was the DTaP....and ONLY that one. We got home and he screamed bloody murder for 4 hours straight. NOT normal for him. According to anecdotal evidence from the internet he might possibly be having a reaction to the Pertussis part of the vaccine and his screaming may be indicative of encephalitis. When I called my doctor's nurse to report this reaction I was met with "It's normal for them to be fussy." Sorry b*tch, but this went beyond 'fussy'. Next time I saw my doctor (who I generally love) he gave me the same dog and pony show- swearing that he has never seen one negative reaction to a vaccine....sorry, but that's statistically impossible. It was like the Twilight Zone, like he was reading from a script.
I waited a few more months and my baby got the Hib vaccine...no reaction.
I'm going back next month to get just the DT (we're in the country and I really want him vaccinated against Tetanus). I will be monitoring him very closely.
My 6 yo daughter has never had a negative reaction and we are 100% on the recommended schedule. My son now is on a carefully monitored delayed schedule. And so far the schools have been totally cool about it, I just have to provide a note from my doc.

No one should be FORCED to vaccinate their kids. Doctors should be much more honest about the risks and the recommended schedule should be much more spread out, none of this multi-shot nonsense until they're much older.

originally posted by: DeepThoughtCriminal

"over 10" kids

That's 10% of kids

Seriously? 10 kids does not mean 10%. If there were exactly 100 kids at the school, then yes, 10 children would be 10% of the population. If the population is, say, 1000, then 10% = 100 kids. Does this make sense? I think if you put half the amount of time trying to understand percentages as you do vaccines, you'd vastly improve yourself.

And if you spent that time on reading comprehension then maybe you'd have noticed the OP said it was a school of 100 kids...


And a unicorn riding a dragon could fly to the altitude purple if he wore mayonnaise.

a reply to: Dr UAE

Sorry in this case your link is completely invalid. I actually know quite a few Amish guys. Do you? I trade with them. They take care of my horses hooves. I have a lot of junk out on my farm and they are always wanting to trade with me. They know my weakness for apple butter and exploit me.

Anyway..... None of them that I know would every vaccinate. It goes against much of what they believe. Inbreeding? Knock it off. These are good people who want a different life than we do. It does not make them barbarians for choosing differently. I doubt you could ever get enough of them to submit to testing and questions to ever gather enough data to come up with a decent sample size. They simply are not interested and either wouldn't comply or wouldn't be honest.

a reply to: Agartha

Without running to Google, I would love to know what people who use the "Wakefield's study was a fraud" to disprove anything REALLY know and understand about that scenario. Or are most people simply parroting what they hear others say or read in the newspaper: "Andrew Wakefield's study was disproven." It was really never disproven, but hey, when the "official" sources like FDA, CDC, newspaper say it is, then it is. Like it or not, for all the negativity spewed at 'anti vaxxers' for not knowing what they're talking about, the same could be said of anyone else.

The fact that yes, they did indeed at one point use peanut excipients in vaccines, and that the peanut allergy explosion happened in North America right in the early 90s, when the CDC childhood schedule for vaccines suddenly tripled may not prove anything, but it's a correlation. And the fact that not the CDC, not the FDA, not the "scientists" at the pharma companies bother to truly study this correlation speaks volumes. The CDC site's FAQ has one question about "Why have there never been any long term studies comparing vaccinated to non-vaccinated?" Their answer is that it's not ethical to deny people of the life-saving benefits of vaccines for such a study. Meanwhile, for 25 years, people who do NOT vaccinate themselves or their children have been petitioning the CDC to use THEM as the voluntary non-vaccinated group. The CDCs response: total silence and their answer on their FAQ. Again, speaks volumes.

People talk of anti-vaxxers not being 'scientific.' I'd say the absolute opposite of scientific is NOT STUDYING OBVIOUS CORRELATIONS. No problem, then they can just say "there has been no link found between such and such," um, yeah, because they have not studied it. If it were some other area of science that had no stakes involved, they would study it.

Since it is a known fact that recently vaccinated people can and do spread the disease they were vaccinated for, I again find it amazing that this is totally ignored in any and all literature touting the benefits of vaccinations.

The paradigm that is the wonderful world of the life saving benefits of vaccinations is founded on the promulgation of selected information, and the ignorance of anything that opposes it or raises questions.

"Pro" vaccination people do NOT have the answers to important questions being asked by concerned people. As in all areas of life, of course there will be over the top tin foil hat wearing nut cases, etc., but the media has just happily used them along with Jenny McCarthy to "prove" that people who ask informed, important, concerned questions about vaccines are "crazy."

That would all be fine and dandy if we were not now looking at legislation forcing people to vaccinate or lose other rights.

originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
1. Vaccines DO help build up an immunity against the intended diseases. This is achieved by introducing weakened or dead strains of said illness.
2. The additives in vaccines ARE toxic. A small amount of toxin introduced to a healthy specimen can usually be filtered out with no problem. Not every body is the same, some people are more sensitive to some things.
3. Some children have life altering negative reactions to vaccines. Yes, it is a small percentage, but it is there. And when it's YOUR kid suffering it doesn't matter if it's 0.009% or 90%.
4. The pharma/medical establishment DOWNPLAYS vaccine casualties. Casualties as in death, and casualties as in neurological damage.
5. Back to point 2. -a healthy body can filter toxins. But what happens when you're being attacked on all fronts? Air pollution, household cleaners, food additives, plastics, etc etc. Like the canary in the mine shaft, children are more vulnerable and the quickest to succumb.
6. As a PP so astutely added- the reason behind the astronomical increase in allergies is our germaphobe society. Our bodies were designed to live in symbiosis with many millions of other organisms. When we get OCD about hand washing, alcohol gel, disinfecting surfaces, panicking when our kids eat off the floor or touch an animal, throwing antibiotics at every little sniffle....our bodies are left with no option but to turn on themselves. *look up Helminthic Therapy for autoimmune diseases
7. Vaccines aren't 100% effective. Some of these outbreaks involved children that HAD been vaccinated.

My personal experience: I waited 6 months to vax my baby. By that point I had a pretty good idea of his cues and what was normal for him. His first shot was the DTaP....and ONLY that one. We got home and he screamed bloody murder for 4 hours straight. NOT normal for him. According to anecdotal evidence from the internet he might possibly be having a reaction to the Pertussis part of the vaccine and his screaming may be indicative of encephalitis. When I called my doctor's nurse to report this reaction I was met with "It's normal for them to be fussy." Sorry b*tch, but this went beyond 'fussy'. Next time I saw my doctor (who I generally love) he gave me the same dog and pony show- swearing that he has never seen one negative reaction to a vaccine....sorry, but that's statistically impossible. It was like the Twilight Zone, like he was reading from a script.
I waited a few more months and my baby got the Hib vaccine...no reaction.
I'm going back next month to get just the DT (we're in the country and I really want him vaccinated against Tetanus). I will be monitoring him very closely.
My 6 yo daughter has never had a negative reaction and we are 100% on the recommended schedule. My son now is on a carefully monitored delayed schedule. And so far the schools have been totally cool about it, I just have to provide a note from my doc.

No one should be FORCED to vaccinate their kids. Doctors should be much more honest about the risks and the recommended schedule should be much more spread out, none of this multi-shot nonsense until they're much older.

There is a reason why Japan stopped the MMR and reverted back to separating those three vaccines.

a reply to: anonentity

This post makes a lot of sense. I really believe our gut bacteria protects us from many things, and when the level of beneficial bacteria isn't right, we have all kinds of problems, including mental. The decrease in fermented and unpasteurized foods , the increase in use of antibiotics over the last several decades, the increase in anti-bacterial products, the increase in c-sections, along with other environmental factors - it is no wonder our gut bacteria levels are way off, and that we are seeing more and more mental problems in children, like autism, bipolar, schizophrenia, depression, etc. It is entirely possible that unbalanced gut bacteria may make some children more susceptible to reactions to certain vaccines.

www.scientificamerican.com...