The Ban On Transgender Individuals In The Military May Soon Be Lifted

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: JadeStar

Me as someone who had surgery at 17 feeling weird about showering with a transgender woman who has not had SRS is not being transphobic. It's just being uncomfortable showering with someone with a penis. I'd be perfectly fine showering with her if she hid it somehow.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you but yeah it's like this. I wouldn't have wanted to show that thing off when I had one and I have serious issues with someone who would call themselves a woman and want access to women's facilities who would not be discrete about having one.

HALLELUIAH !!

So TrappedPrincess, are you going to hate Jade and I both now? I agree completely with what she said.

Is this elitist and separatist all that, quite frankly yes, yes it is and the argument that male bodied "women" have equal access to female bodied women's protected spaces because they "identify" pushes me further toward the transsexual separatists movement side of thinking. Remember, we're talking barracks, communal showers, nudity.

Why would I hate you, you literally have no tangible affect on my life. We may disagree here but that is certainly no reason to hate anyone. I just think it is hypocritical and quite frankly I do not approve of the whole separatist sentiment so if you want to run along and pretend that you were born any different than I then you are free to do just that.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

Maybe they won't be in combat arms. The article said they are taking their time figuring this out. So it remains to be seen what they can and cannot do within the military.

I was denied as a straight male entry into the Royal navy college for simply haveing clinical depression.

Now seeing as many trans have a high rate of such disorders I expect there application denial rate to be high, unless they lower standards.

Which, given the political climate and the DOD response every time something along these lines come up, is the most likely scenario. Already the USMC is pressured to lower standards because no females have passed officer infantry school.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Would you consider birth control a 'chronic medical need'?

HRT is really not any different than birth control.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

It might be hypocritical, but it does happen within the transgendered community. There are a lot of different comfort levels that I've seen. I once witnessed an argument on whether transmen could use the word "tranny" like some transwomen do. These are internal problems and the community has been working hard to resolve any differences when they crop up. No one's perfect, but it's foolish to think you can use this sort of infighting as an excuse to cut loose on all of your prejudices.

Don't want to shower with a transgendered person? Fine, shower at a different time.

I didn't say I didn't. I don't care who I shower with. I've never had any modesty personally.

However, it is still hypocritical to lambaste a "cis" for being uncomfortable when you demonstrate discomfort. That's a rather basic fact.

We're talking in generalities and that never ends well.

If you gave me a specific situation, you might find that I would agree with cis women who would be uncomfortable. In other situations I would perhaps disagree.

So I can be totally fine with a trans girl who has not had SRS using the girls room at her high school as I did in mine, but also be concerned about the same situation in the context of the military.

That is not hypocritical.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: NavyDoc

Would you consider birth control a 'chronic medical need'?

HRT is really not any different than birth control.

Exactly.

a reply to: NavyDoc

If you think that's what I've been saying, then you aren't listening at all.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: NavyDoc

Would you consider birth control a 'chronic medical need'?

HRT is really not any different than birth control.

One can go without birth control. They don't need it to maintain. And yes, being on chronic birth control for a chronic condition like PCOD is a dis-qualifier for enlistment and commision.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

If you think that's what I've been saying, then you aren't listening at all.

And by the same token you haven't been listening to me at all either.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

It might be hypocritical, but it does happen within the transgendered community. There are a lot of different comfort levels that I've seen. I once witnessed an argument on whether transmen could use the word "tranny" like some transwomen do. These are internal problems and the community has been working hard to resolve any differences when they crop up. No one's perfect, but it's foolish to think you can use this sort of infighting as an excuse to cut loose on all of your prejudices.

Don't want to shower with a transgendered person? Fine, shower at a different time.

I didn't say I didn't. I don't care who I shower with. I've never had any modesty personally.

However, it is still hypocritical to lambaste a "cis" for being uncomfortable when you demonstrate discomfort. That's a rather basic fact.

We're talking in generalities and that never ends well.

If you gave me a specific situation, you might find that I would agree with cis women who would be uncomfortable. In other situations I would perhaps disagree.

So I can be totally fine with a trans girl who has not had SRS using the girls room at her high school as I did in mine, but also be concerned about the same situation in the context of the military.

That is not hypocritical.

So you would be okay if parents and "cis" girls objected to sharing facilities in a high school with a non-SRS transgender girl in highschool and understand their discomfort?

originally posted by: TrappedPrincessso if you want to run along and pretend that you were born any different than I then you are free to do just that.

Um can i give you some friendly advice.. please don't say that. like i said, i don't think anything negative about you because you could pretend to be male longer than Ekron or I. so please don't use that against us. we aren't pretending to have been born any differently than you. we just have a different perspective than you because in Ekron's case she worked for much of her life in what she calls the "pink collar ghetto". And in my case i grew up as a girl socializing with other girls.

So yes we -are- different because -our experiences are different-. You spent a lot of time around guys. I don't hold that against you but please can you maybe try to see it from our point of view? A point of view which I might add, you may end up sharing over time after SRS.

None of us is any better than the other.

a reply to: NavyDoc

You are avoiding the issue here. All women are given the option of free birth control in the military. Providing hormones to trans service members is not much different.

I remember about a month ago in a discussion, I asked you several times if you would support trans service members and you never gave me an answer.

At least I have an answer about transgender people being allowed to serve, though it came from those higher up the ladder than you Captain.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: NavyDoc

It might be hypocritical, but it does happen within the transgendered community. There are a lot of different comfort levels that I've seen. I once witnessed an argument on whether transmen could use the word "tranny" like some transwomen do. These are internal problems and the community has been working hard to resolve any differences when they crop up. No one's perfect, but it's foolish to think you can use this sort of infighting as an excuse to cut loose on all of your prejudices.

Don't want to shower with a transgendered person? Fine, shower at a different time.

I didn't say I didn't. I don't care who I shower with. I've never had any modesty personally.

However, it is still hypocritical to lambaste a "cis" for being uncomfortable when you demonstrate discomfort. That's a rather basic fact.

We're talking in generalities and that never ends well.

If you gave me a specific situation, you might find that I would agree with cis women who would be uncomfortable. In other situations I would perhaps disagree.

So I can be totally fine with a trans girl who has not had SRS using the girls room at her high school as I did in mine, but also be concerned about the same situation in the context of the military.

That is not hypocritical.

So you would be okay if parents and "cis" girls objected to sharing facilities in a high school with a non-SRS transgender girl in highschool and understand their discomfort?

That happened in my case. And my parents talked about it in the thread about the 3-year old transgender child. It took a meeting between her parents and mine and them meeting me to make them more comfortable.

But you know, when I met them, i was very polite and wearing an a-line sundress. i wasn't angrily reacting to them misgendering me and showing i was "packing" by being untucked wearing tight jeans.

presentation matters

a reply to: NavyDoc

Then perhaps you can explain this, because this is your statement that I've been working from:

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Shrug. I think it points out that even transgender people have their prejudices and hangups which sort of indicates that non transgender people shouldn't be criticized for theirs if you guys have the same issues between each other.

Which my point is: No. It does not indicate that.

a reply to: JadeStar

Princess has stated she has no surgical intentions. The "thinking as we do" makes us elitists in her opinion but I suspect our thinking is pretty much inline with what the majority of natal women think too? I've tried to be nice and explain things but failed to effectively get across just what it is that is different about us that wasn't going to offend someone or come across as being stuck up or snooty. I dunno how to do it. Maybe our perspective is simply too unique to understand?

a reply to: crazyewok


My understanding is that there is a high suicide rate among the trans-gender community and I was thinking the same thing on how the psychological test would play on this.

Also I find it interesting with all the recent talk and support of the trans-gender community, but hardly any mention of hermaphrodites who probably have it equally difficult if not more?

I'm assuming that hermaphrodites never been an issue in the military and their is no ban on them as well?

originally posted by: EKron
a reply to: JadeStar

Princess has stated she has no surgical intentions. The "thinking as we do" makes us elitists in her opinion but I suspect our thinking is pretty much inline with what the majority of natal women think too?

Pretty much from what I can tell from my friends.

I've tried to be nice and explain things but failed to effectively get across just what it is that is different about us that wasn't going to offend someone or come across as being stuck up or snooty. I dunno how to do it. Maybe our perspective is simply too unique to understand?

I don't think it is too unique to understand. Princess has her own reasons probably for not having SRS. Some people can't afford it and convince themselves they don't want it. Others wanted it but gave up on it for one reason or another. And still others are find with not having it.

But see i don't feel that it should be so hard to understand why those of us who have had it and blended in to society as women should somehow embrace them "letting it all hang out" among other women.

i don't want to be part of any elite.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: TrappedPrincessso if you want to run along and pretend that you were born any different than I then you are free to do just that.

Um can i give you some friendly advice.. please don't say that. like i said, i don't think anything negative about you because you could pretend to be male longer than Ekron or I. so please don't use that against us. we aren't pretending to have been born any differently than you. we just have a different perspective than you because in Ekron's case she worked for much of her life in what she calls the "pink collar ghetto". And in my case i grew up as a girl socializing with other girls.

So yes we -are- different because -our experiences are different-. You spent a lot of time around guys. I don't hold that against you but please can you maybe try to see it from our point of view? A point of view which I might add, you may end up sharing over time after SRS.

None of us is any better than the other.

Oh ok so now I'm saying inappropriate and disparaging things towards my own community. Do you see how it feels now?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

Maybe they won't be in combat arms. The article said they are taking their time figuring this out. So it remains to be seen what they can and cannot do within the military.

I was denied as a straight male entry into the Royal navy college for simply haveing clinical depression.

Now seeing as many trans have a high rate of such disorders I expect there application denial rate to be high, unless they lower standards.

Which, given the political climate and the DOD response every time something along these lines come up, is the most likely scenario. Already the USMC is pressured to lower standards because no females have passed officer infantry school.

Same thing with the UK army front line infantry.

Women cant pass the test for it but there is political demand to lower standards so women can serve on the front line.


As you stated the military job is to fight and win not play political correct games.
Its all fun and games until a war breaks out and one of the people who you lowered standards for either gets killed or someone else killed.


I have freinds in the royal marines dreading such changes as they dont want "dead weights". As my mate said, they have such a high success rate due to the extremly high standards.

I accept my clincal depression made me ineglible to become a officer in the RN. Its sad but I agree that some people with clinical depression could be a risk. I accept that limitation.

I think other groups need to accept there limitations too.

a reply to: interupt42

There's a high suicide rate among transgendered people because of situations in their lives preventing them from being who they are, or even persecuting them for who they are. After years of being beaten down and feeling disgusted by your own body, a dirt nap is likely to look pretty inviting.

As for your use of the word "hermaphrodite," please stop. The proper term is intersexed. There are no true hermaphrodites in the human race.