6 Ways Christians Lost This Week: And A Thank you to the Christians who Won

originally posted by: MonkeyFishFrog

Why is it that Christians assume we want to get married in a church? Why would we want to be in a place that would condemn us to a horrible fate in life and an even worse one in death? That is the last place I would ever want to exchange vows. Even if I wanted to get married in a church, I wouldn't walk up to the first one I saw and ask if they would perform a ceremony. I would research the churches and find one that advertises that they are open and willing to perform a same-sex ceremony.

I think because there have been so many lawsuits filed to force churches/ministers to perform gay marriages against their doctrine/beliefs. Just a quick search of "church sued over gay marriage" provides plenty of examples.

But I tend to believe that the vast majority of gay couples feel the same as you, and would not want such negativity and animosity tainting their special day.

Which makes me suspicious of the motives of those who do file such lawsuits... and those who encourage (finance) them to do so. Rightly or wrongly, I do believe there are those with different agendas using and exploiting the gay marriage issue for more nefarious purposes.

Yes, the fear that churches will be forced to marry same sex couples is baseless.

In my current church, as well as at previous churches I've attended, they have rules about who they will marry within the church. Generally church membership by at least one person in the couple is a requirement. Frequently they can require couples to go through pre marital counseling. Different rules at different churches. It isn't unheard of for couples to be turned away for a variety of reasons - such as immaturity or some life issue (like addiction) that needs to be addressed first.

So... Yeah. Churches can and do refuse to marry couples - heterosexual couples included. They always have. I've never heard of it being legally challenged.

Like a previous poster mentioned, it's unlikely an engaged couple would just go to a random church and want to be married. They certainly wouldn't want their married life to begin in a place filled with negativity and hate. (Ug... I cringe to type that. Churches that are truly jesus-centered and spirit led could never be described that way.).

This is just a ridiculous non-issue.

Eta - oh , just saw post before mine. I stand corrected, there have been legal issues!

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: works4dhs
so when gay couples who have never attended my church knock on our door and *DEMAND* a church wedding, can we tell them to take a hike? or will the Supreme Court force us to deny our faith and sanction something we don't believe in?

I would actually say it is irresponsible for that couple to go to any church (especially one they haven't been to) and demand anything. Of course, there are churches that DO perform gay weddings, so I don't know why they would ever go to one that didn't.

because they can. because they want to force us to support their agenda. the same reason they sue a pizza shop for not wanting to cater a gay wedding, or sue a bakery for not wanting to provide a cake for same. "it's not enough to allow us, you must agree with us or we will punish you."
years ago when this issue starting rising I heard a lot of people say 'just give us civil unions and we'll be fine'. that wasn't enough. now the supreme court is forcing every state to recognize gay marriage. that won't be enough.
obviously I have a different perspective on this than most of you. this isn't about gay marriage. this is about hatred towards Christianity. the anti-Christians are using this as a wedge issue to punish the church in the USA.
obviously some misguided churches will go right along with this. the haters will leave them alone--for now.

originally posted by: works4dhs

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: works4dhs
so when gay couples who have never attended my church knock on our door and *DEMAND* a church wedding, can we tell them to take a hike? or will the Supreme Court force us to deny our faith and sanction something we don't believe in?

I would actually say it is irresponsible for that couple to go to any church (especially one they haven't been to) and demand anything. Of course, there are churches that DO perform gay weddings, so I don't know why they would ever go to one that didn't.

because they can. because they want to force us to support their agenda.

For a person who follows a religion who teaches Love, acceptance, and non judgement, you sure are one of the most hateful individuals I've seen on ATS.

Guess you aren't one of the people I thanked in the OP.

originally posted by: works4dhs
the same reason they sue a pizza shop for not wanting to cater a gay wedding, or sue a bakery for not wanting to provide a cake for same. "it's not enough to allow us, you must agree with us or we will punish you."

Did the pizza shop manager become gay because he had to make a pizza for a gay wedding?

Did the baker become gay because he had to make a cake for a gay wedding?

These aren't incidences of homosexuals forcing their will on people, it is solely the intolerant minds of the pizza maker and the cake maker that is the issue. No one's religions was changed, or even challenged in those incidences. If the couple came in individually and asked to cater a wedding, or asked to make a cake for a wedding without the knowledge of the wedding actually being gay, the managers would have had NO idea. I wonder how often that happens?

originally posted by: works4dhs
now the supreme court is forcing every state to recognize gay marriage.

And why is that wrong, exactly? You do realize that the united states and each individual state is not part of some christian sect. There is such a thing as the separation from church and state. You are arguing that homosexuality is trying to force religions do bend to their will are you not? So this point of yours makes no sense.

originally posted by: works4dhs
that won't be enough.

Yup! soon there will be a gay president! and then the gays will rise up and become our global overlords, shooting us up with gay drugs to turn everyone else into gay zombies for their perverse desires! Then the gay humans will travel from solar system to solar system trying to spread their gayness.

Seriously... What would Jesus say about your hate?

originally posted by: works4dhs
obviously I have a different perspective on this than most of you. this isn't about gay marriage. this is about hatred towards Christianity.

Yes... I'm sure that the homosexuals really don't care about being treated as equals, and they are all just teaming up to hate on Christianity. Not Islam, Not Judaism, Not Hindi's, but christianity solely.

originally posted by: works4dhs
the anti-Christians are using this as a wedge issue to punish the church in the USA.

Because, you know, no other country in the world legalized same-sex marriage.

Argentina
Belgium
Brazil
Canada
Denmark:
· Denmark proper
· Greenland*
Finland*
France
Iceland
Ireland*
Luxembourg
Mexico:
· CH, CA, QR,
· DF
Netherlands:
· Netherlands proper


New Zealand:
· New Zealand proper
Norway
Portugal
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom:
· England and Wales
· Scotland
· Pitcairn Islands
United States:
· United States proper
· GU, MP*, PR*, VI*
Uruguay

Recognized

Israel
Malta
Mexico

Netherlands:
· Aruba, Curaçao
and Sint Maarten

a reply to: works4dhs

What are you talking about? How is the SCOTUS ruling punishing churches? Does the SCOTUS ruling say that churches are forced to perform gay weddings or like gay marriage? No, it has nothing to do with the church and everything to do with equal protection under the secular law.

Amendment XIV

Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Basically what people like you want is for the government to ignore the laws that are in place and instead base their laws on Christian teachings. Sounds like a theocracy to me. Do you want a theocracy?

a reply to: Ghost147

While I applaud the LGBT community for finally getting the right to marry in this nation, my fear is bigots like this dude will reverse what they have fought for:

a reply to: Klassified

As you well know I am a Fundamentalist Christian and I was about ......... living life and just got home; after driving a total stranger, who was so drunk he could not walk home, in high temp weather, to his mother's home. I was even going in the opposite direction but stopped and turned around and picked him up and drove him to momma's house. Why? So I can go to heaven? LOL ...... if you say something stupid like this I swear I will laugh out loud........

Now some people will right off criticize me right off the bat for picking up a stranger...... a drunk one at that! Good point but the man needed help not a lecture on bible verses.

This is why we were put here..... to learn and to help one another......some need physical help; others seek spiritual help.... and then there are others who need no help. Learning the difference saves everyone time.

Gay marriage - I am against it. So I will not be attending or supporting any gay marriages. My free will.

NEVER have I said - "I hate you" or "you will burn in hell forever" etc.... blah blah

I do no hate the sinner.....never have ......never will........HOWEVER...........I hate the sin.

AND I hate the sins I commit and I repent, which works very well for me.

The U.S. government made that decision and made it federal law. This is a but the "tip of the iceberg" for what is still to come. I can't wait to see the next Supreme court ruling that deals with ethics and morals.

a reply to: VegHead

Churches that are Yeshua/Jesus filled and Spirit led would never go against God's word!
As for me and my house we choose to serve the Lord and not submit to pressures from
the secular world.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: VegHead

Churches that are Yeshua/Jesus filled and Spirit led would never go against God's word!
As for me and my house we choose to serve the Lord and not submit to pressures from
the secular world.

Here, here......... Mine as well

a reply to: DeathSlayer

As you well know I am a Fundamentalist Christian and I was about ......... living life and just got home; after driving a total stranger, who was so drunk he could not walk home, in high temp weather, to his mother's home. I was even going in the opposite direction but stopped and turned around and picked him up and drove him to momma's house. Why? So I can go to heaven? LOL ...... if you say something stupid like this I swear I will laugh out loud........

I did these very same things before, during, and after, I was a preaching, teaching Christian(I know you don't believe that. I'm not offended by it. You don't know me from "Adam"). I didn't and don't do it to go to heaven, either. I do it because it's the right thing to do, and because I would hope someone would have mercy on me in that situation.

Now some people will right off criticize me right off the bat for picking up a stranger...... a drunk one at that! Good point but the man needed help not a lecture on bible verses.

Meh. There's a time to say no, and there's a time to take a chance. We only have our gut, and our senses to make that call.

Gay marriage - I am against it. So I will not be attending or supporting any gay marriages. My free will.

Fair enough.

NEVER have I said - "I hate you" or "you will burn in hell forever" etc.... blah blah

But you believe they are condemned. Just as you believe all are condemned who refuse to "repent", accept Christ as Lord and savior, and turn away from their "sin".

I do no hate the sinner.....never have ......never will........HOWEVER...........I hate the sin.

Nor do I hate Christians. Never have. Never will. HOWEVER. I strongly dislike biblical Christianity.

AND I hate the sins I commit and I repent, which works very well for me.

I'm sure you do, and I'm sure it does.

The U.S. government made that decision and made it federal law. This is a but the "tip of the iceberg" for what is still to come. I can't wait to see the next Supreme court ruling that deals with ethics and morals.

I've never believed ethics and morality can be legislated. They are part of ones character and integrity. You either have an awareness and empathy for those you share the world with, or you don't. Legislation may deter certain attitudes outwardly, but it will never change peoples hearts and minds.
But back to your statement. I have no doubt whatsoever the scotus will overstep their boundaries at some point in the forseeable future. Unfortunately. It is inevitable in a country that has way too many influences from those who have a vested interest in a given outcome.

THIS IS THE DIALOGUE TO WHICH I AM RESPONDING:

DeathSlayer: NEVER have I said - "I hate you" or "you will burn in hell forever" etc.... blah blah

Klass:
But you believe they are condemned. Just as you believe all are condemned who refuse to "repent", accept Christ as Lord and savior, and turn away from their "sin".


DeathSlayer: I do no hate the sinner.....never have ......never will........HOWEVER...........I hate the sin.

Klass:
Nor do I hate Christians. Never have. Never will. HOWEVER. I strongly dislike biblical Christianity.

This is the statement that I want to hold out as Klassy:

You either have an awareness and empathy for those you share the world with, or you don't. Legislation may deter certain attitudes outwardly, but it will never change peoples hearts and minds.

So sad.

a reply to: mamabeth

Churches that are Yeshua/Jesus filled and Spirit led would never go against God's word!
As for me and my house we choose to serve the Lord and not submit to pressures from
the secular world.

????????

So, what does that even mean in the context of this thread?

That you will follow JESUS's words - and play nice with everyone else? (That would be so awesome!!!)

Oh. Yeah, I didn't think so......let me try again:

That you don't have even one blink of remorse about those things that your cohort* and you failed to do? Or about the absolutely revolting, hideous way that they are behaving now (that you agree with)?

And what is your opinion of those actual Christians who have come on here (like Veghead, for example) and denounced you all as the hypocrites and disappointing bullies that you are proving to be? That goes right over your head, doesn't it?!!!! Yes, it does.

And you people wonder why you are dressed down daily on here.

*eyeroll*

It's such GREAT fuel for you to be able to claim, "I'm being persecuted!" But the fact remains that YOU ARE BRINGING IT ON YOURSELVES.
Pitching fits, becoming hysterical and violent at the same time. Acting like hose-bags. Throwing tantrums, and all that fun preschooler stuff.

Think about (if you're able) how the people who are not heterosexual have been feeling for decades....about how the Muslims have been denegrated since 2001.....about all the people who AREN'T YOU. Or not, if you're not able. That's okay.

(*don't know what 'cohort' means? Look it up. Hint: It isn't in your Book.)

You all embarrass the rest of us Americans. Do you know that?



Oh yeah! Now I remember something I thought of while out in my garden.....

The "Apocalypse Posse". That's how I think of you all.


ALL RESPECT to Veghead and those other actual Christians on ATS (of whom there are a few) who have risen above this and tried to rally their straggling, wayward, troubled, unpleasant trouble-makers to be decent, compassionate, tolerant human beings.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Hopefully it's to Grant us as a Federally protected class so we can end Workplace discrimination and getting denied services and housing/property etc

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I skimmed through your post and I stand by my previous posts!
The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin! I read my
Bible and I will not compromise my beliefs because they are
in contradiction to your own.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Churches are not government owned and operated, so they can refuse gay weddings all they like, but if someone goes to a government run establishment asking for a marriage license then they are obligated by law to provide one regardless of their sexual preference.

You mean not yet. In time the black robes will see to it that their bosses will own it all. The illegals are the smart ones.

a reply to: works4dhs

You seem to lack understanding of the law that you and everyone bring up as baseless argument

but lets try...

The Bakery was in a State that had State Anti-Discrimination laws. so the Baker Broke the Law

Understand?

a reply to: mamabeth

I skimmed through your post and I stand by my previous posts!
The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin! I read my
Bible and I will not compromise my beliefs because they are
in contradiction to your own.

Okay then!!!!

I skimmed through your Bible, and I will not compromise my belief that JESUS would have wanted you to behave like a decent human being!! No matter WHAT other people do!!!

Oh, and also - your "Bible" clearly makes no sense!!

And I stand by that!!!

Hope you have a relaxing, calm, happy and carefree evening.

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I skimmed through your post and I stand by my previous posts!
The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin! I read my
Bible and I will not compromise my beliefs because they are
in contradiction to your own.

And what compromise do you think is being implicated? Sure, lets say homosexuality is a sin, are you becoming a homosexual because the nation gave them more rights? No? Guess there isn't a compromise then.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I finally read your post and I am now ready to answer it!
1. Christian hypocrite: is a christian who will compromise their christian
faith and beliefs to try and fit into the secular world.
2.Christians who have fits of rage,hysteria and violent: You are describing
that Westboro crowd.
3.Persecution that will be my fault for "bringing it on myself": Your post
is a small example of persecution that I didn't start but I will finish.
4. Think about it if you are able:I can certainly think.
5.Muslims': You and others can't handle the truth about islam
6.Embarrass the rest of us americans:
A. I am the daughter of a veteran of the Korean war.
B. I am the niece of a Vietnam veteran.
C. I am the ex-wife of a Vietnam veteran.
D.I have a son who is a disabled veteran.
E.I have 2 grandchildren who served in Iraq.
You really have your nerve calling me an embarrassment to americans.
7.All respect to those other actual christians: Who seem to
compromise their faith and beliefs for stars and flags.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I intend to have a relaxing,calm,happy and carefree evening.It has been
a pleasure commenting on your posts.