6 Ways Christians Lost This Week: And A Thank you to the Christians who Won

Another member (MonkeyFishFrog) brought up this article in another thread, and I felt it needs a bit more light shined on it.

13 days ago (depending on where you are in the world) the US became the twenty-first and most populous country to legalize same-sex marriage. Even now I am still overjoyed by the US's actions and outcome. Good on you guys!

Unsurprisingly, there has been a massive influx of topics regarding massive, and thoroughly debunked, misconceptions, intolerance, hate, and homophobia here on ATS. I can only imagine what it's like in certain areas of the US (The bible belt comes to mind).

Needless to say, there have been a lot of rational, more tolerant, more educated members here on ATS that have been doing a great job countering those ignorant topics with information that apparently still is not very apparent to some. According to the star-count between the two opposing sides, it looks like the more tolerant members have the largest backing, just like the recent vote to legalize same-sex Marriage.

The article I mentioned in the beginning of the post really opened my eyes to just how badly many religious people are acting. Especially when their faith preaches tolerance, love, forgiveness, and that their god is the only one who can truly judge someone.

Here's a few excerpts from the article, I highly suggest reading the whole thing (it's not THAT long)

We who call ourselves Christians lost a great deal over the past few days, though it’s probably not in the way you might think.

1) We lost the chance to be loving.

So many professed followers of Jesus spent the last week on the attack, desperately fighting a battle long after it had already been decided. Instead of simply looking for ways to personally affirm our faith in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision, too many of us frankly just lost it. We spit out vitriol and we cursed strangers and we lamented America’s demise and we threatened with Bible verses and we treated others with contempt. Our response to the LGBT community and those who support them wasn’t compassion and decency and peacemaking, it was sour grapes, damnation, and middle fingers.

2) We lost the chance to be good neighbors.

Rather than using the events of this past week as the springboard for conversation with people around us; as a way to build relationship with those who may not share our beliefs or our worldview, we pushed them further away.

3) We lost the chance to be Good Samaritans.

We could have looked around at the hurt generated this past week; at the deep sadness so many LGBT people and their loved ones felt at being the center of such violent arguments and the horrible aftermath of them, and responded in love. We could have moved toward them with the mercy and gentleness of Christ, seeking to be the binders of the wounds.

4) We lost the opportunity to show how big God is.

With all the fatalistic sky is falling rhetoric and raw-throated “The End is Near” prognostications, what so many Christians did for the watching world was inadvertently paint the image of a God who is hopelessly on the ropes; not all-powerful, not all-knowing, not at all able to withstand the slightest changes in our world. We completely neutered God by horribly overstating the circumstances and crying wolf yet again.

5) We lost the chance to reflect Christ.

Let’s be honest: some of us really dropped the ball this week on both sides of the discussions. Many of us crusaded on social media or staged tirades from the pulpit or spewed hatred across dinner tables. We argued and complained and petitioned and boycotted and protested, and we did just about everything but leave people with the sweet, restful essence of Jesus.

6) We lost people.

We gave those who live outside of our faith tradition, very little reason to move any closer.

Article Here

I'm very humbled that many Christians (including ones on ATS) were also happy to see that Homosexual individuals have their freedom of marriage as well, and acted accordingly to their core religious beliefs, as I would expect anyone who holds such beliefs to act.

At the same time, we can all see how those same Christians must feel very embarrassed by the actions of others who claim to follow the same, innocent beliefs, yet seem to irresponsibly use their faith as a means to spreed their own deep-rooted hate, which is absolutely not taught by Christ.

From my own words, and all other Atheists here on ATS, We'd like to say:

Thank you, to those religious individuals who really acted how we imagined Christ himself would act in a time like this. You've made us proud to call you brothers and sisters

I also thank the ones who actually act christ like and accept that love conquers hate.
I hope some of the vocal bigots read the op and look indide themselves and recognise their bigotry and at least try and change.
You know the ones those who attempt to hide the fact they are a bigot but just disguise it with their brand of religion.

I'll drink to that. Cheers!!

a reply to: Ghost147

Another thing the bible thumpers lost: respect.

If you can't see the difference between a secular law and God's law, maybe you need to reflect on what exactly it is you believe in. Just because a secular government allowed gay people to get married, that has absolutely no bearing on what God's law is, and I highly doubt God gives a damn about who gets married and who doesn't, especially within a secular system.

If you don't believe in gay marriage then don't have a gay wedding. It's as simple as that. Trying to impose your views and beliefs on everyone who isn't a part of your group just makes you come off as a bigot and close-minded. Get over yourselves, be humble, not an ass.

S&F

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If you can't see the difference between a secular law and God's law, maybe you need to reflect on what exactly it is you believe in. Just because a secular government allowed gay people to get married, that has absolutely no bearing on what God's law is, and I highly doubt God gives a damn about who gets married and who doesn't, especially within a secular system.

That's a good point, I hadn't really looked at it from that way before

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Another thing the bible thumpers lost: respect.

If you can't see the difference between a secular law and God's law, maybe you need to reflect on what exactly it is you believe in. Just because a secular government allowed gay people to get married, that has absolutely no bearing on what God's law is, and I highly doubt God gives a damn about who gets married and who doesn't, especially within a secular system.

If you don't believe in gay marriage then don't have a gay wedding. It's as simple as that. Trying to impose your views and beliefs on everyone who isn't a part of your group just makes you come off as a bigot and close-minded.
S&F

so when gay couples who have never attended my church knock on our door and *DEMAND* a church wedding, can we tell them to take a hike? or will the Supreme Court force us to deny our faith and sanction something we don't believe in?
or will they take our tax exemption away for not following the herd?

a reply to: works4dhs

Churches are not government owned and operated, so they can refuse gay weddings all they like, but if someone goes to a government run establishment asking for a marriage license then they are obligated by law to provide one regardless of their sexual preference.

a reply to: Ghost147
Fundamentalist/literalist/evangelical/legalist/dominionist sects make up 1/3 to 1/2 half of Christians in the U.S. So this debate/fight isn't going away any time soon. Kudos to those Christians able to separate their faith from the rights of others, and view their Christianity as a personal choice, rather than marching orders to establish a world-wide theocracy in the name of Jesus.

originally posted by: works4dhs
so when gay couples who have never attended my church knock on our door and *DEMAND* a church wedding, can we tell them to take a hike? or will the Supreme Court force us to deny our faith and sanction something we don't believe in?

I would actually say it is irresponsible for that couple to go to any church (especially one they haven't been to) and demand anything. Of course, there are churches that DO perform gay weddings, so I don't know why they would ever go to one that didn't.

As 3NL1GHT3N3D1 stated, the government does not own the church. Furthermore, the new laws don't require churches to perform gay marriages, they allow the GOVERNMENT to perform gay marriages.

So exactly what is the issue you have?

originally posted by: works4dhs or will they take our tax exemption away for not following the herd?

This is a bit off topic, but why would an all mighty being require a tax exemption in order to survive as a religion anyway?

Make that seven , this is one of the strangest thing I have read this week

rt.com...

a reply to: Ghost147

So exactly what is the issue you have?

A total misunderstanding of the law, both the secular one and God's. They seem to be confusing the two a lot lately.

Thank you - great post!

I'm a Christian and by all appearances a conservative one. I attend an evangelical church, I participate in bible studies, I'm a stay at home mom with 3 kids.

My heart is completely broken with what has happened.

It hurts me deeply to see so many of my brothers and sisters in Christ going against everything Jesus taught us. It's a terrible mistep and so many people are hurting. It's ironic that they cannot see that their hate puts them outside of the teachings of Jesus far more than the people they are self-righteously condemning.

I've never understood the anti-gay obsession some have and it destroys me that this sort of hate could ever be attached to my "brand" of faith. I see it in my church. They are a minority but a very very loud minority. The church needs to confront this from within. I admit my own shortcomings in speaking up, but I cannot allow myself to be silent any longer. Let's get back to basics!

And...Let's be honest. The bible, and Jesus Himself, are far more condemning of gluttony than homosexuality. If your throat causes you gluttony, cut it out. (Not a direct quote but very close)... Yet look around a church and, frankly, the sin of gluttony is obvious! Where is the outrage??

Jesus taught us that we cannot be pointing out the speck of dust in someone else's eye when we have plank of wood in our own!

I love people. I rejoiced that homosexuals were granted equal rights. That is how it should be. I pray there are many joyful, loving, and committed unions as a result. I pray that the connection between these partners brings them much peace and happiness and that they seek God together. I hope they know that Jesus loves and embraces them as people. We are all sinners. I'm a sinner as well. Their sin is no "worse" than mine. His grace covers us all.

Thank you again for your post.

originally posted by: works4dhs

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Another thing the bible thumpers lost: respect.

If you can't see the difference between a secular law and God's law, maybe you need to reflect on what exactly it is you believe in. Just because a secular government allowed gay people to get married, that has absolutely no bearing on what God's law is, and I highly doubt God gives a damn about who gets married and who doesn't, especially within a secular system.

If you don't believe in gay marriage then don't have a gay wedding. It's as simple as that. Trying to impose your views and beliefs on everyone who isn't a part of your group just makes you come off as a bigot and close-minded.
S&F

so when gay couples who have never attended my church knock on our door and *DEMAND* a church wedding, can we tell them to take a hike? or will the Supreme Court force us to deny our faith and sanction something we don't believe in?
or will they take our tax exemption away for not following the herd?

Well first off, i would just compare your church, organisations, and beliefs, to the likes of the folks who brought us black segregation. Then i would show you how your beliefs that gays are not an equal segment of society, are akin to the Nazi policy of singling out parts of their society that they decided were not worthy.

All the while screaming that you are being forced against your will to accept living around others who do not agree with you and how this is your persecution that was written about in your holy book.

I think your tax exemption should be revoked. That money would be better off used in schools to pay teachers to teach your kids not to be like you.

a reply to: works4dhs

Instead of Fear Mongering look around.. look at this world, look at the violence already suffered.. this is a small step that shows compassion and Love, i don't know what your God believes in but don't you think you would want to show him that we can Coexist with some kind of love and respect?

I think much of what is forgotten (not just by Christians) is that we are condemning, judging, loathing, discriminating against... people; they are human beings just like the rest of us, not simply ideals or sinfulness incarnate. Someone who takes pleasure in the opposite sex is just as sinful as another who takes pleasure in their own; so long as PLEASURE is being taken in it. That's not what it's about though. The sexual act is an overemphasized elephant in the room that those at enmity with these ideals cannot see past. This is due to poor teaching in their respective churches, a closed-minded family upbringing, the media portraying right wing agendas/fear mongering, or perhaps even a simple lack of religious education or personal reflection/prayer. It's not only a failure on a spiritual level, but one on a moral and societal level. Sex is simply the expression of affection/love for another person. It's the person behind the sexual acts that we should be most concerned with, and it is indeed sad that more people cannot see that.

For the Christians:

These are living, breathing human beings with a world of thought of their own. Objectifying them or segregating them from 'your world' isn't going to further any agenda other than a highly hypocritical one. You are not a pedestal for moral integrity for the world to look up to, you are a sinner just like the rest. If you wish to set an example of tolerance and love for your fellow man, look upon your brothers and sisters with kindness, not cruelty. Jesus himself surrounded himself not with the pharisees, but with ignorant, and stubborn sinners. He did not set himself upon a solid gold throne and call forth their worship, he walked among them and taught them with patience. Faith and charity is not some exclusive club benefit for the spiritual elite set high upon their thrones casting wistful gazes upon the unclean... it is for all of God's children. This does not mean you must bend at the knee at every vile whim, or turn the cheek at every insult, but do not go about thinking you're better than those you condemn. If not, enmity will only give rise to enmity, and nothing good will come of it. We are all in this together, no matter where we are right now.

a reply to: Septimus

Bravo Septimus! Beautifully said!!!

This is exactly what we all need to do if we're ever going to find peace within and among ourselves. We have the blueprints to do so -- including the Bible and the Constitution. We can do this. We can do better.

We are all in this together. If we don't take care of each other, we're all lost.

originally posted by: works4dhs

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Another thing the bible thumpers lost: respect.

If you can't see the difference between a secular law and God's law, maybe you need to reflect on what exactly it is you believe in. Just because a secular government allowed gay people to get married, that has absolutely no bearing on what God's law is, and I highly doubt God gives a damn about who gets married and who doesn't, especially within a secular system.

If you don't believe in gay marriage then don't have a gay wedding. It's as simple as that. Trying to impose your views and beliefs on everyone who isn't a part of your group just makes you come off as a bigot and close-minded.
S&F

so when gay couples who have never attended my church knock on our door and *DEMAND* a church wedding, can we tell them to take a hike? or will the Supreme Court force us to deny our faith and sanction something we don't believe in?
or will they take our tax exemption away for not following the herd?

First off "when"? How about "if"? Second off, yes you CAN tell them that. It's been said over and over that gays can't force a church to marry them if it doesn't want to. How about first producing evidence that gays are even going to do this before repeating this stupid fallacy?

But you see, you are proving the point of the OP. Instead of trying to repair any bridges, here you are further burning them down by manufacturing ANOTHER perceived threat to your faith by trying to still paint the "gays" as the bad guys.

When same-sex marriage was legalized in Canada it was explicit that churches and other places of worship were never required (and could not be forced) to perform a ceremony if it contradicted their beliefs. Guess what? No church was ever forced to perform a ceremony. The fear is pointless.

Why is it that Christians assume we want to get married in a church? Why would we want to be in a place that would condemn us to a horrible fate in life and an even worse one in death? That is the last place I would ever want to exchange vows. Even if I wanted to get married in a church, I wouldn't walk up to the first one I saw and ask if they would perform a ceremony. I would research the churches and find one that advertises that they are open and willing to perform a same-sex ceremony.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Well put!

With all this focus on other countries and same-sex marriage, I tend to overlook it's own existence in Canada (probably because I don't recall it being a big issue)

I'll have to use the information you've presented in future debates

a reply to: Ghost147

In all the countries that it is legal in, i don't think anyone has been forced to Marry Same-Sex Couples, or their "Religious Freedoms" have been taken.. why are Americans not only so behind, but with such fear mongering hyperbole