Abortion and Responsibilties That Follow

originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

There hasn't been a conception.

But it's alive, and technically a human by your terms. Just because it hasn't mixed half it's DNA with another thing make a NEW human, doesn't mean it's not a human.

You said it yourself. A single fertilized egg is a human. Which is a cell. A sperm is a cell. Logically, then, human sperm cells are human beings. Therefore, masturbation is murder.

a reply to: Mugly

We already have the answer to this question:

Higher abortion rates where procedure is illegal

Abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal and nearly half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe, with the vast majority in developing countries, a new study concludes.

originally posted by: Mugly

originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: Mugly

Do you stop being human if you get stricken with cancer, and are no longer a 'complete', healthy human?
Should your life be terminated if you are no longer a 'whole' person?

i dont really see the comparisons here.

comparing a person with cancer to a zygote that has never taken a breath.
yeah, thats the same

You're the one who's questioning how we determine when one is (or isn't) "human". When conception occurs, is that organism not a human being? When, exactly, does it become a human being?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

i knew as much
i just wanted the anti crowd to think about it

easy to say ban abortion and make people take care of their kids but you cant really make people take care of their kids.

a reply to: Mugly

Yea, bans only work in a perfect world. In the world we live in, it just drives the thing underground; where it becomes unsafe and uncontrolled.

a reply to: ColeYounger

for me the answer is viability.

when it is viable on its own, thats the cut off.

for me

in the end i dont really care. abort. dont abort. not my problem

a reply to: Realtruth

We have taken care of many kids of neighbors, friends and relatives who were too lazy or too busy to devote time to said kids. We haven't officially, legally adopted any kids, but I would.

a reply to: ColeYounger

Human growth is a gradual thing. It is impossible to determine the exact point you can call a group of cells "human".

originally posted by: ColeYounger

originally posted by: Mugly

originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: Mugly

Do you stop being human if you get stricken with cancer, and are no longer a 'complete', healthy human?
Should your life be terminated if you are no longer a 'whole' person?

i dont really see the comparisons here.

comparing a person with cancer to a zygote that has never taken a breath.
yeah, thats the same

You're the one who's questioning how we determine when one is (or isn't) "human". When conception occurs, is that organism not a human being? When, exactly, does it become a human being?

Look on your birth certificate. It has a birthday there. That is when you legally became a person. Philosophy aside that is the legality of it. You become a person when you are born. We can talk at length about what a person is, when a person becomes a person, etc. But legally, you're a person when you exit the womb.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

and boom goes the dynomite

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Who raises these unwanted children? It's a simple question.

I would-but i'm a single white male so I would be denied by default. But a single white female is the perfect candidate.

We hear so many stories of how the father is a deadbeat and the mother is a saint, you never hear of the deadbeat mothers because many use their uterus as an embryonic immunity.

originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: Realtruth

We have taken care of many kids of neighbors, friends and relatives who were too lazy or too busy to devote time to said kids. We haven't officially, legally adopted any kids, but I would.

Temporary care is nice, but 24/7 around the clock nurturing is a completely different scenario, and this is what the OP was about.

You don't even have to adopt you can be a foster parent. Lot's of children are being displaced daily and need a stable home, the state even pays for them to live with the foster parents.

In fact, being a foster parent is the next best thing to adoption, and can lead to adoption.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Actually, I have a personal story about a deadbeat mother.

Gal had two kids with one of my friends. They weren't married, and soon after they split up because she was a huge drug-user and he didn't want that. She got custody of the kids.

At first. It became apparent she was only using the kids to get child support payments from my friend, which were used on drugs. The actual child rearing was done mostly by the woman's own mother, while the mother spent her days completely whacked out of her mind on drugs.

My friend genuinely wanted to raise his children, and a long court battle ensued. He won, eventually. After almost six years of court battles. The mother was obviously unfit to raise her children, and EVERYBODY knew that, but the courts have always historically sided with women on the matter of child custody. It's a damn shame. I digress!

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie


I would-but i'm a single white male so I would be denied by default. But a single white female is the perfect candidate.

You only say that, but have you actually looked into it?

I know plenty of single men that have fostered children and done a great job.

www.adoptuskids.org...

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I have a similar story about a guy in my squad while in the Army. He went to Iraq for the initial deployment in 2003, racked up all this combat and overseas pay (tax-free too) and wanted to take his family to Disney World when he got home (wife and 1 child). He got home and took his family to dinner and when he tried to pay the bill, all his cards were declined. This is when his wife mentions, "oh by the way, we don't have any money". It turns out she went on a three month long coke binge with all of his tax-free combat pay.

Fast forward several years and he was STILL fighting the custody battle for his daughter and trying to prove that the mother was unfit because of this (heck his divorce case alone took forever). Like your story, he finally succeeded, but this is a case of a soldier not being able to prove he could care for a child over a coke-head all because he was male. Also, keep in mind this was at the height of American patriotism for soldiers in the 2000's. He literally should have had every advantage to win that custody battle VERY quickly.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Actually, I have a personal story about a deadbeat mother.

Gal had two kids with one of my friends. They weren't married, and soon after they split up because she was a huge drug-user and he didn't want that. She got custody of the kids.

At first. It became apparent she was only using the kids to get child support payments from my friend, which were used on drugs. The actual child rearing was done mostly by the woman's own mother, while the mother spent her days completely whacked out of her mind on drugs.

I've seen the same thing, almost to the word. The difference is my friend had to fight the courts to see his daughter every weekend.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun


We're disagreeing on semantics here, but there are in fact definitions (from scientists) as to what constitutes a "human". Many agree that when "the independent organism becomes distinct from the mother", it can be called a human being.

As for your stating legal definitions, I'll counter with this: Murderers who've killed pregnant women have been charged with double murder. The court did in fact consider the unborn fetus a "legal" human being.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie


I would-but i'm a single white male so I would be denied by default. But a single white female is the perfect candidate.

You only say that, but have you actually looked into it?

I know plenty of single men that have fostered children and done a great job.

www.adoptuskids.org...

I'm not sure I would pass the criteria. I'm dubious on sponsoring a child as I want every dollar to go towards them, but I'm sure many men could provide a better life for children that could use a warm bed and security.

a reply to: ColeYounger

how far along were the murdered women?

did a guy get a double murder conviction for killing a lady that is 3 days pregnant?
8 months?
it makes a difference

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

this is classic

www.adoptuskids.org...

To foster or adopt, you are required to participate in 36 hours of educational sessions. This training is followed by a home study process by which a potential adopter, with the assistance and guidance of a trained agency professional, assesses the adopter’s child rearing skills, life experiences, and strengths to determine the type of adoptive child each could best parent. A criminal background check is mandated. A fire inspection and safety audit must be completed. Medical examination is required.

dont have to go through any of that # to conceive and dump a baby in a trash, but boy if you want to do some good, theyre gonna be all up in your ass