Social Democracy Is 100% American

a reply to: daskakik
Yeah, I am not a EPA fan at all. They shut down my life, and I hate them.

originally posted by: TKDRL
Yeah, I am not a EPA fan at all. They shut down my life, and I hate them.

That's a personal bias but does that mean that there are not instances when force or the threat of force are the only measures that will set a community on a better path?

That is what we are talking about. Beezer said tha socialism is forced but being social is not. What does a society do when part of it refuses to be social?

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: beezzer
Socialism works great, on a small scale. I live in a small ass town, there is a lot of socialism that goes on, though those that live here would dare not call it that. A neighbor has some catastrophe happen, we help. I guess it's not the same as socialism perse, as it is all voluntary. For example, when grandma died, we didn't have to cook a meal for weeks. People just kept bringing food. A neighbor lost his wife, same deal. Hell, I even stopped by a few times with a big ass bottle of shine to keep him company for the night. A neighbor will never starve or freeze here due to hardship. Sounds a lot like socialism eh?

Well put. This is why I brought up de centralization in an earlier post.

It's the big, bloated, corrupt beaurocracy that I find particularly cloying. The states or localities should be handling it. I know there are counter points to that idea, but I loathe government coertion. I just don't trust them.

With all the money being fed into the system, you'd think that if the feds really cared, they'd be taking better care of people. Instead, they're making us slaves to the banks. So much tax money going to pay interest on the debt it makes my head spin.

a reply to: daskakik

What does a society do when part of it refuses to be social?

Around here? We call them the mean old geezer, and warn each other to stay off his/her lawn. End of story. And when that mean old geezer is in need of help, we offer help the same as we would anyone else in our society.

What does your society do to those that refuse to be social?

Maybe we need some extreme because what we have now isn't working. Not in any way.

originally posted by: TKDRL

What does a society do when part of it refuses to be social?

Around here? We call them the mean old geezer, and warn each other to stay off his/her lawn. End of story. And when that mean old geezer is in need of help, we offer help the same as we would anyone else in our society.

Looking at the number of laws, fines and people in prison I have a hard time believing that.

What does your society do to those that refuse to be social?

The same thing yours does.

a reply to: daskakik

Looking at the number of laws, fines and people in prison I have a hard time believing that.

What do you mean? My society, here, and even back in rural NY did not have laws and statutes against being antisocial, and huge prisons to house them. In fact, when I left NY, the bars would still let us smoke, even though it was antisocial and "illegal". All we had to do was collectively put $200 on the bar, to pay for the fine on the off chance a health inspector stopped in. That never happened, at the last call we got our money back.

Fines, don't happen here, or back in rural NY, we didn't and don't have a police force. Here we hire 2 RCMP that just sit in a nice little barrack, and work out while waiting for emergency calls that barely ever come.

Kinda funny how the lat two towns I lived in survived and even flourished without a police force handing out tickets and fines all over the place. Makes me question the necessity of them at all. And prisons, # them. Don't get me started on ranting on prison towns.

a reply to: TKDRL

Guess we each understood Beezer's use of the word social differently.

The clintush image made me think you were in the US.

Your saying that there are no fines and/or jails in Canada? Guessing that is where you are by the mention of RCMP. Google says otherwise.

Even societies in way out places have rules and consequences of a social nature (my understanding of the term).

a reply to: daskakik
I was born and raised in rural NY. There are no fines or jail here for BS, if you kill someone, or something major, then it's an issue.

It was the same back in rural NY. You had to rape or kill or something major, unless you were unlucky enough to happen across a state trooper on the road, which happened to me once.

We got rid of our police force because they had nothing better to do than harrass kids for no reason. There was no crime, I guess they were bored, but us kids took it to the town board and got rid of them.

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: daskakik
I was born and raised in rural NY. There are no fines or jail here for BS, if you kill someone, or something major, then it's an issue.

So there are rules and consequences of a social nature even if there isn't a police force.

ETA: I'm sure a federal agency can also come in and saction certain acts even if there are no Local LEOs.

a reply to: daskakik
I guess if you want to be PC about it...... Raping or murdering someone is a bit different than refusing to be social I think.

Maybe I am not understanding what you meant. "What does a society do when part of it refuses to be social?", like I said, "my society" leaves them the hell alone. What was the answer you were looking for? And what do you mean by "refuses to be social"? Maybe I am just not getting what you mean.

My society doesn't punish people that own their house for not mowing their grass often enough, or painting their house an approved colour. Some societies do attempt to punish home/property owners for that kind of petty crap.

a reply to: TKDRL

Has nothing to do with being PC. I replied to Beezer who said socialism is forced and implied being social isn't. I was just pointing out that crime is antisocial behaviour and that the laws that force members of a society to follow or pay are of a social nature although not necessarily socialism.

Beezer's point was merely semantic.

a reply to: daskakik

crime is antisocial behaviour and that the laws that force members of a society to follow or pay are of a social nature although not necessarily socialism.

I disagree. Crime is not antisocial behavior. Crime is behavior that harms other people, or their rightfully owned property. And by harm, I don't mean hurt their feelings. I bash your skull in, that is a crime. I make you feel bad, that is not a crime, or at least it shouldn't be.

originally posted by: TKDRL
I disagree. Crime is not antisocial behavior.

You pretty much have to at this point.

Crime is behavior that harms other people, or their rightfully owned property. And by harm, I don't mean hurt their feelings. I bash your skull in, that is a crime. I make you feel bad, that is not a crime, or at least it shouldn't be.

Making someone feel bad = antisocial
Breaking into someone's home = antisocial

Antisocial is a larger general term that includes being rude and being a criminal. Are both of these things the same? No, but they both fall into that catagory.

Whether or not a particular society's laws deems being unpolite a crime is another issue.